Is MacKinnon A Top Ten Player?

[Dr Quincy]

Good for Matthews but IMO until Matthews does what Mack did I will consider Matthews below Mack for now***. Here is a question, why everytime I see a player X compared to Matthews it always has to be goals ? It's like total points, assist didn't matter at all. I think Matthews gets over 80 next year if he's injury free though so I have no hate towards Leafs, I'm saying that before being attacked and labeled as a Leafs hater.

I don't want to derail the thread into a Leafs/Matthews thread so if we're back to the thread. I think it's a bit premature to call Mackinnon a top 10 player, he has to repeat or be PPG at least before being considered a top 10 player. I really believe he can do it again that's why I don't really that much if some doesn't have him in their top 10. I just do believe that he is able to get in that top 10 or even top 5 soon. Going into the season, I think he can be considered as a top 10 player after what he did last season. He just have to pick up where he left off.

Not getting into who is better between these 2 specific players...

but...

Yeah, goals are >>> assists. For every goal there is about 1.7 assists. Thus goals are more valuable.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I never said it was fair. I've even said multiple times, in other threads, that I don't agree with that label.

The rest of your argument comes down to: "Matthews started his career off better."

Which is great. He started off better. So what? What significance does that have on what MacKinnon just did? Absolutely none at all.

For me it comes down to this. If some people want to say MacKinnon is already a top 10 player based on what he did last season, they should also take into account how Matthews first 2 seasons was better than MacKinnon's first 4 seasons.

 

[Sojourn]

That's literally what PPG is. You don't need to be PPG+20 to be considered a point per game player

Really? Brandon Pirri had 3 points in 2 games last season. Is he a PPG player?

He's not, right? It's an extreme example, and purposely. You aren't going to all him a PPG player because it's 2 games. You'd be right not to call him that, but what you're saying is that the number of games played does matter. So what's the cut off? 20 games? 40? 60? Personally, for me, the cut off is about 75 games. An NHL season is 82 games, and that's true for every player. Missing 20 games is a significant enough chunk(a quarter of the season, with some decimal places), that I don't consider a player a PPG player at that point. This is doubly true when they are only just barely a PPG player at hat point.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

MacKinnon is top-5.

 

[Sojourn]

For me it comes down to this. If some people want to say MacKinnon is already a top 10 player based on what he did last season, they should also take into account how Matthews first 2 seasons was better than MacKinnon's first 4 seasons.

For what purpose?

No one was talking about MacKinnon as a top 10 player in those seasons. I mean, maybe there was the potential argument. "He has the chance to be." kind of arguments. So what's the point of bringing that up, except to try to turn this into some dick measuring contest?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Really? Brandon Pirri had 3 points in 2 games last season. Is he a PPG player?

He's not, right? It's an extreme example, and purposely. You aren't going to all him a PPG player because it's 2 games. You'd be right not to call him that, but what you're saying is that the number of games played does matter. So what's the cut off? 20 games? 40? 60? Personally, for me, the cut off is about 75 games. An NHL season is 82 games, and that's true for every player. Missing 20 games is a significant enough chunk(a quarter of the season, with some decimal places), that I don't consider a player a PPG player at that point. This is doubly true when they are only just barely a PPG player at hat point.

No player on here other than Auston Matthews gets bashed for not having 70 points in a season yet, however now it's wrong to call him a PPG player because only played in 62 games. The fact is he scored more points last season than games played. So by logic and definition he is a PPG player.

 

[LeafsNation75]

For what purpose?

No one was talking about MacKinnon as a top 10 player in those seasons. I mean, maybe there was the potential argument. "He has the chance to be." kind of arguments. So what's the point of bringing that up, except to try to turn this into some dick measuring contest?

I'm just saying if some people want to include MacKinnon as a top 10 player based on what he did from last season, it's not that easy to say he belongs in that category just yet and one of those factors for me personally is Matthews having a better first 2 seasons than he did.

 

[Sojourn]

No player on here other than Auston Matthews gets bashed for not having 70 points in a season yet, however now it's wrong to call him a PPG player because only played in 62 games. The fact is he scored more points last season than games played. So by logic and definition he is a PPG player.

Okay, then Pirri is a PPG player. Your logic and definition applied.

As for the rest, that's just garbage, and it goes back to the victim complex. No player on here gets shoved down our throats more than Auston Matthews. So yes, he gets called out for not having accomplished enough yet, because the amount of praise he gets is not proportional to his current level of play.

You proved that point yourself in this very thread. You're whining that MacKinnon is being talked about as a top 10 player, by bringing up the fact that Matthews accomplished more in his first two years. Considering that has nothing to do with MacKinnon's current play, it comes across as massively attention seeking.

 

[Sojourn]

I'm just saying if some people want to include MacKinnon as a top 10 player based on what he did from last season, it's not that easy to say he belongs in that category just yet and one of those factors for me personally is Matthews having a better first 2 seasons than he did.

Again: Not relevant.

The argument that Matthews is younger, and has put together a worse season than MacKinnon's best has no significance at all here.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Okay, then Pirri is a PPG player. Your logic and definition applied.

As for the rest, that's just garbage, and it goes back to the victim complex. No player on here gets shoved down our throats more than Auston Matthews. So yes, he gets called out for not having accomplished enough yet, because the amount of praise he gets is not proportional to his current level of play.

You proved that point yourself in this very thread. You're whining that MacKinnon is being talked about as a top 10 player, by bringing up the fact that Matthews accomplished more in his first two years. Considering that has nothing to do with MacKinnon's current play, it comes across as massively attention seeking.

The only reason Matthews gets shoved down your throats is because after his rookie season the Leafs haters on here only focused on him not getting 70 points, even though he scored 40 goals as a rookie and was tied for 2nd which was very historic.

 

[nturn06]

No player on here other than Auston Matthews gets bashed for not having 70 points in a season yet, however now it's wrong to call him a PPG player because only played in 62 games. The fact is he scored more points last season than games played. So by logic and definition he is a PPG player.

No other forward here besides AM gets called franchise or even generational despite not having a 70 points season...

 

[Sojourn]

The only reason Matthews gets shoved down your throats is because after his rookie season the Leafs haters on here only focused on him not getting 70 points, even though he scored 40 goals as a rookie and was tied for 2nd which was very historic.

That might be the biggest load of crap I've ever read.

The reason he gets shoved down our throats is you want to show off your pretty new toy. It's been a while since you've had a toy you were this excited about, so you want to tell everyone how great it is.

That's it. And then you get upset when people say that there are some other great toys out there, and some of them are prettier than yours. Oh no! No toy can be prettier! Your toy has to be the prettiest.

 

[Maplebeasts]

No other forward here besides AM gets called franchise or even generational despite not having a 70 points season...

He was gonna get well over 70 points last year and you guys damn well know it. This argument is fallacious and needs to die.

 

[bukwas]

Love MacKinnon but no he is not.
1 out of 5 seasons at that level doesn't make it so. Had he previously been producing at a rate that would place him just outside of top 10 a reasonable argument could be made.

 

[Scott Stevens]

Absolutely no trouble to call Matthews a Top 10 player though right?

Matthews
Marner
Nylander
Tavares
Reilly
Dermott
Gardiner
Kapanen
Liljegren
Andersen

Sorry, no room for MacKinnon in the top 10.

 

[Lovedemfanboys]

In the end it's goals scored that win games. I know there are also assists that add up to a players total points. However if a goal is never scored than those players can not get assists. That's why others mention Matthews goal scoring ability.

So you are saying that Marner is comparable to players such as Timo Meier and Ryan Dzingel? I think you are being too hard for the kid.

Or is this one of those hypocrisy cases in which goals are not important if your player is not a goal scorer?

 

[Eltuna]

He’s probably on the cusp right now, another year of 85+ points gets him there I would say.

MacKinnon took a few years to really get going but I think a lot of that has to do with his play style, Mackinnons game isn’t so much speed like a lot of people think but rather power. In juniors he outmuscled everybody else, that’s a really hard thing to do as an 18-20 year old in the NHL. Now that he’s older he’s able to do to NHL dmen the same things he was doing to junior dmen. Power forwards are similar to dmen in that they usually take a little bit longer to get going. MacKinnon isn’t really thought of as a power forward yet but last year he certainly was. I think people would be surprised to know that if MacKinnon won the Hart last year (like he should have in my opinion), he would’ve had the most fights from a Hart trophy winner since Bobby Clarke in the 70’s.

The other thing to consider with MacKinnon is that he’s probably tracking to be this generations Briere with respect to his playoff/important game resume. At such a young age he’s already put up 10 points in 7 games as an 18 year old, had (arguably) the most dominant memorial cup in recent memory, was a beast during the Q playoffs, just had a great series versus the president trophy winning Predators, and was (arguably) the best player for the young gun team at the World Cup. He’s definitely shown he’s a guy that steps up when the games matter the most.

 

[Pez68]

A definitive no.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Nice to see a thread asking if MacKinnon is a top ten player devolve into another Auston Matthews needs attention thread.

 

[Pez68]

Nice to see a thread asking if MacKinnon is a top ten player devolve into another Auston Matthews needs attention thread.

Seriously. I'm pretty sick of it, to be honest. It's the same handful of posters that constantly drag the topic into that as well..

I hate Auston Matthews, and it's entirely because of the Toronto fanbase.

 

[Avsavsavsavsavs]

How is there always one Leafs fan in every single thread making it about Matthews.

 

[LeProspector]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about MacKinnon not Matthews. Leafs fans....

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/149793931/
this is why it's a Matthews thread now. Blame insecure fans who have to attack Leafs players because they're unable to properly defend their own

 

[LeafsNation75]

Nice to see a thread asking if MacKinnon is a top ten player devolve into another Auston Matthews needs attention thread.

Ignoring that it was @Pierce Hawthorne who first mentioned Matthews name and not any Leafs fans.

 

[Pez68]

Well it was nice of you all to come and defend Auston's honor....