Is Kucherov a clear-cut #2 in the NHL as we're speaking?

psycat

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Is missing an entire year to return in the playoffs unprecedented? If not, how have other players performed under the same circumstances?

I'm sure there is a mix of positives and negatives; it's not simply a deterrent or a catalyst to good play.

Well you have Peter Forsberg who also performed great after missing an entire season, that said he pretty much always performed great in the playoffs obviously.
 
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Kalamazoo Wings

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That's not what I said, I said that I doubt it(which is not the same as saying there is no chance, or well risk for Oilers in that case). I simply saw the games and think a player of Kucherovs stature would have made the difference in atleast one, if not several, of the games that were played.

By every measure except actual results perhaps, if McDavid keeps up this years pace in a full season against the full league I am willing to concede that he would probably have done so this year aswell but until that that happens it's just speculation.

But I mean even then do you take a slightly superior regular season player that gets spoonfed ice-time over a proven playoff warrior who also produce at a high pace in the regular season? Anyway that's all just semantics till McDavid actually done it. If you believe McDavid would produce more on Tampa while sharing ice-time and pp-time I don't know what to tell you.

Answer to the last question is: Yes AINEC. McDavid though is quite close to Kucherov but a winner performs in the playoffs and since he didn't peak higher in regular season yet it's hard to justify ranking him ahead. Roy(in an alternative reality where he also peaked higher in the regular season) vs Hasek analogy stands and even then Hasek won and had a couple of further deep runs.

Kucherov's stature as 2nd/3rd/4th best player is a great feat for him but it doesn't push Edmonton over the hump in any game this playoff year especially in place of the best player.

There was no last question... so slow down and breath and put your AINECs away for another day. It was a statement, that this thread isn't about who's the best, it's about whether Kucherov is 2nd or 3rd or 4th best or better than MacKinnon and Draisaitl. So you clearly are missing the point of the thread, no one is debating who is best or even asking you, it's implied in the thread title. Look it over again, we're not debating if Kucherov is the best, it's whether he's second best. It's close for second for sure. No shame in being 2nd/3rd/4th at your craft.
 
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DearDiary

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Aug 29, 2010
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Vegas was supposed to destroy the habs in 4

According to who? Not the NHL.com pre series and certainly not Hfboards which had Vegas in 4 with only the 5th most votes. In fact, Montreal winning in 6 and 7 games had more votes...
 

psycat

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Kucherov's stature as 2nd/3rd/4th best player is a great feat for him but it doesn't push Edmonton over the hump in any game this playoff year especially in place of the best player.

There was no last question... so slow down and breath and put your AINECs away for another day. It was a statement, that this thread isn't about who's the best, it's about whether Kucherov is 2nd or 3rd or 4th best or better than MacKinnon and Draisaitl. So you clearly are missing the point of the thread, no one is debating who is best or even asking you, it's implied in the thread title. Look it over again, we're not debating if Kucherov is the best, it's whether he's second best. It's close for second for sure. No shame in being 2nd/3rd/4th at your craft.

McDavid was far from the best player these playoffs though, he rode Draisaitl's coattails to some weak alibi points and then flubbed the puck for two OT losses.

The title is "Is Kucherov a clear cut 2 in the nhl as were speaking", the answer is no since he is #1. Op didn't mention Draisaitl or MacKinnon at all, id argue Hedman is better than them aswell.
 
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ottawa

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According to who? Not the NHL.com pre series and certainly not Hfboards which had Vegas in 4 with only the 5th most votes. In fact, Montreal winning in 6 and 7 games had more votes...

Lol you must be illiterate then.

14/15 writers on NHL.com said Vegas would win Stanley Cup Semifinals predictions

The majority of HF had Vegas in 5th...with the habs in 5 or 6 as runner ups and this is thanks to the habs fanbase being the 2nd largest on HF Series Talk: - Semifinals: Montreal Canadiens vs. Vegas Golden Knights | Series Tied 1-1
 

DearDiary

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Aug 29, 2010
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Lol you must be illiterate then.

14/15 writers on NHL.com said Vegas would win Stanley Cup Semifinals predictions

The majority of HF had Vegas in 5th...with the habs in 5 or 6 as runner ups and this is thanks to the habs fanbase being the 2nd largest on HF Series Talk: - Semifinals: Montreal Canadiens vs. Vegas Golden Knights | Series Tied 1-1

You said 4 games and then you post a link saying everything but 4 games...?

Your 2nd link also puts Vegas in 4 as 11% of the votes, 5th highest

So what exactly are you arguing here? You call me illiterate but you have no idea what you post. Prove that "Vegas was supposed to destroy the habs in 4"
 
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Kalamazoo Wings

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The title is "Is Kucherov a clear cut 2 in the nhl as were speaking", the answer is no since he is #1. Op didn't mention Draisaitl or MacKinnon at all, id argue Hedman is better than them aswell.

#1 on his team quite possibly, and it's a good team he should feel good about that. I personally see the thread title as implying who's #1, and that Kucherov is up for debate in the 2/3/4 post, or it would have been asked if Kucherov was currently the best? Regardless of how it reads, good for him, he's come a long way in a short time, considering how his career started. Most improved easily to get in the consensus 2/3/4 range. And I'll just forget you said anything about Hedman being in the top tier either.
 

Gritty4Hart

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McDavid is the best. Kuch is quite firmly either 2nd or 3rd in the world along with Mac. I strongly disagree with anyone claiming any other players are top three.
 
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geoo9

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By every measure McDavid has Kucherov beat in the regular season and the gap is only going to widen.
By every measure Kucherov has McDavid beat at postseason and gap is only going to widen. What is more important ? Kuch is one of the best league players and he didnt slow down at postseason, finding a ways to score not letting to shut himself. maybe Kucherov not best regular season player -you can not judge player by only regular season performing- and skillset of a player didnt mean that player is better overall
 
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Kalamazoo Wings

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you can not judge player by only regular season performing- and skillset of a player didnt mean that player is better overall

Actually I can and I will . :)

Certain players, that don't come along very often are special enough that you can look at a significantly dominant other-worldly body of work, whether playoff and/or regular season, look at their skill set and quite easily equate they are indeed the best player. With McDavid it's pretty easy, 32 out of 32 GMs take this guy to be the piece they build around given the choice, no questions asked, and certainly no hesitation. He's just getting started we should all enjoy the ride as hockey fans. Kucherov is a heck of a consolation prize though, he's right there with the next wave of players like MacKinnon and Draisaitl, he's pretty special too.
 

geoo9

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Actually I can and I will . :)

Certain players, that don't come along very often are special enough that you can look at a significantly dominant other-worldly body of work, whether playoff and/or regular season, look at their skill set and quite easily equate they are indeed the best player. With McDavid it's pretty easy, 32 out of 32 GMs take this guy to be the piece they build around given the choice, no questions asked, and certainly no hesitation. He's just getting started we should all enjoy the ride as hockey fans. Kucherov is a heck of a consolation prize though, he's right there with the next wave of players like MacKinnon and Draisaitl, he's pretty special too.
So that narrative -playing at worse team didnt actually effect on that super player at regular season but unfortunately it is became to excuse at PO?
If he is that good why he actually suck then?
 
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Beyonder91

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Just look at how many secondary assists Kucherov has in general, it's a pretty good argument for how good his teammates are at finishing plays.

I'm actually quite surprised the usual suspects who called out Crosby as "secondary Sid" haven't made the same remarks about Kucherov who is an even bigger feaster of secondary assists than Crosby has ever been.

I think those guys are Russian though, so them not bringing it up is most likely due to a double standard type thing.

This is such a lazy argument. How many of Gretzky's assists were secondary?

There's a reason generational playmakers (yes I said it) will get lots of secondary assists.

One of the biggest is they have the ability, usually under pressure, to get the puck to open ice where teammates have odd man opportunities to score. Kucherov is the best in the league at this IMO.
 

daver

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Is missing an entire year to return in the playoffs unprecedented? If not, how have other players performed under the same circumstances?

I'm sure there is a mix of positives and negatives; it's not simply a deterrent or a catalyst to good play.

Forsberg in 2002 comes to mind.
 
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Lacaar

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Jan 25, 2012
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Considering he's only 98.75% healthy by some Tampa fans standards :sarcasm:

Imagine if he ever hit 100% ?

Kidding aside him and Tampa are fun to watch and I'll cheer for them and the style of hockey they represent.
Rest of the teams in the playoffs are boring as f*** and rely on huge defense's taking advantage of no rules hockey to make for some of the least entertaining hockey I've ever witnessed.

The late 90's trap is back baby. Call it whatever you want but this is not the era of the stars that's for sure.

Tampa is the last hope for me. hopefully it's enough to get them past these Mauling defensive teams.
 

These Are The Days

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McDavid is the best. Kuch is quite firmly either 2nd or 3rd in the world along with Mac. I strongly disagree with anyone claiming any other players are top three.

Holy shit.... and it's the Flyers fan of people who makes the most objective and accurate post on the situation.







Mean that complimentary btw, y'all had Eric and would be effective judges of the matter
 

Future GOAT

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This is such a lazy argument. How many of Gretzky's assists were secondary?

There's a reason generational playmakers (yes I said it) will get lots of secondary assists.

One of the biggest is they have the ability, usually under pressure, to get the puck to open ice where teammates have odd man opportunities to score. Kucherov is the best in the league at this IMO.
I wasn't arguing anything. Was just stating a fact.

Comparing Kucherov to Gretzky is flat out silly.
 

BackhandToeyJoey

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Jan 16, 2013
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I like Kucherov as a comfortable #3 w MacKinnon and McDavid ahead of him. Bergeron and Crosby don't get a lot of love nowadays in these type of rankings either when they deter their offensive stats and money for the betterment of their team, and for those reasons I like them over most players. Tampa Bay is doing something historic (legal cap circumvention notwithstanding) and he's part of a 5-headed behemoth there w an excellent supporting cast.
 

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