Is Kucherov a clear-cut #2 in the NHL as we're speaking?

[The Nuge]

Clear cut? Absolutely not. Him and Draisaitl are looking pretty interchangeable for that claim, with MacKinnon and Matthews not too far behind. But really, you could make a case for any order with the 2-5 guys and it wouldn’t be that outlandish

 

[ujju2]

Based on what exactly? On imaginary cups and imaginary points these guys will get sometime in the future in the parallel universe? Kucherov is better. Period. Deal with it.

Cups are a team achievement. But yes, based on points, which aren't imaginary at all. Kucherov finished behind all 3 in points in 2019-20. And they've only gotten better over the past season (McDavid and MacKinnon especially).

 

[duhmetreE]

It depends what's the metric. Their PP is destroying right now.

Maybe I value EVP more than PPP... but he's dominating with the man-advantage.

#2 is always up for debate. He's in that conversation. MacKinnon or Kucherov?

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

The recency bias on these boards is unreal. There was a thread about MacKinnon until he was bounced.

Kucherov is an elite player on a stacked team playing against a bunch of tired players. Sitting out wasn’t a detriment, it’s a massive advantage. They also have a $100 million dollar roster.

Relax Relax

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

McDavid has hit his prime. What do you mean? He's absolutely in his prime lol. We'll see how long it lasts though, and how high he reaches.

As for 'obliterating 128 points'. Evidence points towards McDavid surpassing 128 points in a full 82 game season it's true, but I wouldn't say obliterate.

McDavid had 104 points in 56 games.
Kucherov has a stretch in his 128 point season of 101 points in 56 games, and then his pace was slower for the rest of season. Not a big difference.

If you look at a smaller stretch - best isolated 41 game sample (50% of an 82 game season) in their season, McDavid's best is 77 points in 41 games, Kucherov's best is 78 points in 41 games.

McDavid's season in 2021 was spectacular. BUT:

- Covid led to unique circumstances. It doesn't mean "North sucks" as many here like to say - it just means circumstances were unique, and it's hard to say if this should be looked at as a big advantage, a small advantage, or not a big difference either/way for McDavid.

- 56 games isn't 82 games. Many players have had great stretches in 82 game seasons, but then slowed down rest of way. Kucherov's isolated samples in 2019 is a perfect example of that.

Great Post!

What a cheater

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

when you're rested up for the playoffs and have a 90 million dollar team to surround yourself, good chance a player like Kucherov produces

What a cheater

 

[Go Bolts]

Nah. He's not better than McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, etc.

Agreed, except for Draisaitl.

 

[Voight]

If he scores 40 points he's bar none the best player in the league.

He could match Lemieuxs 44 points from 91 and people would find a way to make it no big deal.

 

[Outl4w]

Considering the question. I think it should be rephrased who is the clearcut number 2. Kucherov has a cup and one of the best PPG of our generation and is on pace to break more records. Point and Kucherov show up when it counts.
The others are playoff chokers
McDavid
MacKinnon
Draisaitl
Matthews
Playoff performers (Kucherov/Point) > playoff chokers (McDavid, MacKinnon ,Draisaitl ,Matthews )
If I am going on a cup run for this season or next I want Kucherov and Point.

 

[High Fibre Diet]

“The team he plays on is stacked”
“Tampa is over the cap”
“Kucherov is the most well-rested player in the playoffs”

We all know what they say about excuses…

Those are facts, not excuses.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

What he is doing now is downright insane.

Missed the whole season. Doesn't matter. Didn't skip a beat. As of right now, he has 27 points in 16 playoff games, way ahead of everyone else.

That also makes it 61 total points in two straight playoff runs -- one of them still ongoing.

I mean he had plenty of time to recover.

 

[Beyonder91]

I love this new narrative that stepping straight into the into playoffs after not having played in a year, and recovering from hip surgery, is an advantage.

All people pushing this point have clearly never played the game before.

Never change HF!

 

[Kalamazoo Wings]

Of course his numbers are somewhat inflated due to playing on a great team, else he might very well be golfing with McDavid now(that said I doubt Oilers with Kucherov instead of McDavid would have been swept)- doesn't change fact that he got better actual results in both regular season and playoffs. If someone like Roy can be argued to have a case over Hasek this is a no contest.

So Kucherov got swept in 2019 after by far his most dominant season while on a 134 point record setting team, but no chance he gets swept if he were on this years Oilers? I need to know how you came to that conclusion. He had his share of playoff disappointment before he broke through in the post season.

By every measure McDavid has Kucherov beat in the regular season and the gap is only going to widen.

This thread isn't about who's the best though. This is about whether Kucherov is clear cut ahead of MacKinnon and Draisaitl.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

He could match Lemieuxs 44 points from 91 and people would find a way to make it no big deal.

I hope that doesn't happen. Second most points ever in a run sounds good

 

[SensontheRush]

Is missing an entire year to return in the playoffs unprecedented? If not, how have other players performed under the same circumstances?

I'm sure there is a mix of positives and negatives; it's not simply a deterrent or a catalyst to good play.

 

[Bust]

What he is doing now is downright insane.

Missed the whole season. Doesn't matter. Didn't skip a beat. As of right now, he has 27 points in 16 playoff games, way ahead of everyone else.

That also makes it 61 total points in two straight playoff runs -- one of them still ongoing.

this forum is obsessed with player rankings.

For the sake of discussion, I’d rate him #1 with what he’s done the past couple of years in the playoffs and reg season. The guy is incredible and shows up when his team needs him most.

It’s not often you can say Tampa loses games because of Kuch. Can we say the same about the other “top” guys in the league (McD, Drai, Mack, Matthews)?

 

[WarriorofTime]

If you could combine regular season McDavid and playoff Kucherov you would get the closest thing to that Gretzky/Lemieux tier that is even possible in today's game.

 

[Garthinater]

He's behind mack but I'd have kuch 3rd.

 

[Bounces R Way]

 

[Picklepete]

I'd be willing to bet if Kucherov was Canadian you would see different opinions.
Be honest people..
Russian factor, grapes..

 

[Future GOAT]

Yup, happy to. Was just replying to a guy who was making an excuse as to why McDavid has so many regular season points. So I gave him my version of an excuse for Kucherov's playoff points. By inflated teammates I was meaning a lot more talent for him to play with. The via inflated cap hit I'll admit was added to get a rise out of the fun Tampa fans. He's a fine player, and really all I'm saying is the benefit McDavid receives from inflated minutes is an excuse and is on par with someone(me) pointing out the benefit Kucherov receives from playing with a higher level of talent around him.

Just look at how many secondary assists Kucherov has in general, it's a pretty good argument for how good his teammates are at finishing plays.

I'm actually quite surprised the usual suspects who called out Crosby as "secondary Sid" haven't made the same remarks about Kucherov who is an even bigger feaster of secondary assists than Crosby has ever been.

I think those guys are Russian though, so them not bringing it up is most likely due to a double standard type thing.

 

[A Plus]

Not for me; I have him around 5-7

then again I dont just pick guys based on point totals

 

[psycat]

So Kucherov got swept in 2019 after by far his most dominant season while on a 134 point record setting team, but no chance he gets swept if he were on this years Oilers? I need to know how you came to that conclusion. He had his share of playoff disappointment before he broke through in the post season.

By every measure McDavid has Kucherov beat in the regular season and the gap is only going to widen.

This thread isn't about who's the best though. This is about whether Kucherov is clear cut ahead of MacKinnon and Draisaitl.

That's not what I said, I said that I doubt it(which is not the same as saying there is no chance, or well risk for Oilers in that case). I simply saw the games and think a player of Kucherovs stature would have made the difference in atleast one, if not several, of the games that were played.

By every measure except actual results perhaps, if McDavid keeps up this years pace in a full season against the full league I am willing to concede that he would probably have done so this year aswell but until that that happens it's just speculation.

But I mean even then do you take a slightly superior regular season player that gets spoonfed ice-time over a proven playoff warrior who also produce at a high pace in the regular season? Anyway that's all just semantics till McDavid actually done it. If you believe McDavid would produce more on Tampa while sharing ice-time and pp-time I don't know what to tell you.

Answer to the last question is: Yes AINEC. McDavid though is quite close to Kucherov but a winner performs in the playoffs and since he didn't peak higher in regular season yet it's hard to justify ranking him ahead. Roy(in an alternative reality where he also peaked higher in the regular season) vs Hasek analogy stands and even then Hasek won and had a couple of further deep runs.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Is missing an entire year to return in the playoffs unprecedented? If not, how have other players performed under the same circumstances?

I'm sure there is a mix of positives and negatives; it's not simply a deterrent or a catalyst to good play.

Peter Forsberg did it

 

[Stephen]

What Kucherov is doing right at this moment is the real deal.

Nobody should be asking "oh yeah, it's all good that you're scoring at a 1.70 PPG pace in the playoffs and leading a team to a cup run, but let's see what you can really do in an 82 game season."

There are times when McDavid looks like the clear cut best player in the world at a ridiculous/historic clip, there are times when it's Mackinnon when the Avalanche in the playoffs. But what Kucherov is doing is the high bar at the right time of the season when it matters most.