Is Korshkov going to be a bust?

ponder

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Jul 11, 2007
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'Market inefficiencies' my ****.

I was in Shanghai and stoked we made the right choice picking Matthews. We could have had Debrincat, Kyrou, Hart or Girard, I read the thread and was like 'Yegor Korshkov... Who the **** is that?'

It was a bad pick.
I think it’ll probably go down as a bad pick too, but I don’t remember many Leafs fans wanting Kyrou, Hart or Girard at the time. People mostly wanted DeBrincat (would have been great) or Benson (no better than Korshkov).

Also, we got Grundstrom later in the same round, who’s looking good. Some picks hit, most don’t, missing on Korshkov (which I do think is likely) isn’t a big deal.
 

Menzinger

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Apr 24, 2014
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Korshkov Is by far Hunter’s most controversial move with the Leafs.

He had the entire draft class beyond the first round before him, and this was his man.....

The problem for the Leafs too is, even if he doesn’t fully bust and could still be a depth winger for the team, it might be a hard sell to get him to walk away from a KHL contract for just ELC money
 
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Martin Skoula

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Oct 18, 2017
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Korshkov Is by far Hunter’s most controversial move with the Leafs.

He had the entire draft class beyond the first round before him, and this was his man.....

The problem for the Leafs too is, even if he doesn’t fully bust and could still be a depth winger for the team, it might be a hard sell to get him to walk away from a KHL contract for just ELC money

The thing that gets me is that they must have really thought someone would take Korshkov by #40 to take him at #31 without trading down or hoping he's there at the Grundstrom pick. To me that leaves 3 options:

1) Hunter doesn't care about draft pick value as long as he gets his guy.
2) Hunter had bad information about how much other scouts liked Korshkov.
3) Korshkov was actually in demand but no scouting service picked up on it until the draft.

3 is the only option that makes Hunter look good in this situation and it's the least likely one given Korshkov's development post-draft, epecially for an OA pick.
 
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Madic

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May 21, 2008
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Thats what I thought too but he is not listed as injured.
He's listed as injured on Lokomotiv's site now. It's really hard to get a read on his progress when every time he earns a bump up the lineup, he's injured or the KHL's season ends.
 

nuck

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Korshkov Is by far Hunter’s most controversial move with the Leafs.

He had the entire draft class beyond the first round before him, and this was his man.....

The problem for the Leafs too is, even if he doesn’t fully bust and could still be a depth winger for the team, it might be a hard sell to get him to walk away from a KHL contract for just ELC money

Sportsnet had a list of the top 30 KHL contracts a while back and the 30th was right around $1M with less than 10 guys making $2M+. Based on those numbers it seems really unlikely he is making the NHL minimum now. What would they pay him to play in the AHL though?
 
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4thline

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Sportsnet had a list of the top 30 KHL contracts a while back and the 30th was right around $1M with less than 10 guys making $2M+. Based on those numbers it seems really unlikely he is making the NHL minimum now. What would they pay him to play in the AHL though?

Bingo. He'll come to be an NHL player, he's not going come for multiple years in the minors
 

indigobuffalo

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Why is this a Hunter bashing thread?

Why is this pick “Hunter’s”?

As far as I know, Dubas was the one that made the case for over-age players using his analytics system. So wouldn’t this be a Dubas pick?

I would love to see some documentation where Hunter or someone said this was Hunter’s selection.
 
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SprDaVE

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Sep 20, 2008
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Why is this a Hunter bashing thread?

Why is this pick “Hunter’s”?

As far as I know, Dubas was the one that made the case for over-age players using his analytics system. So wouldn’t this be a Dubas pick?

I would love to see some documentation where Hunter or someone said this was Hunter’s selection.

2016 and 2017 were drafts led solely by Hunter and his staff. Dubas had zero or very little input into drafts in both those years. It's well documented.
 

Rude Dog

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Dec 22, 2008
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Not sure why, but this pick really bothered me from the moment it was announced. To make matters worse, it was the first pick of the second day of the draft, so they had all night to change their minds. What makes it worse is the fact that I have never even seen him play a shift yet. Never coming to rookie camps, world juniors etc. I was hoping for Benson or Laberge. I liked DeBrincat but figured they already had too many small bodies.
 

kb

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Aug 28, 2009
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Not sure why, but this pick really bothered me from the moment it was announced. To make matters worse, it was the first pick of the second day of the draft, so they had all night to change their minds. What makes it worse is the fact that I have never even seen him play a shift yet. Never coming to rookie camps, world juniors etc. I was hoping for Benson or Laberge. I liked DeBrincat but figured they already had too many small bodies.
At the 2016 world juniors, Korshkov led the silver medal winning Russians in scoring with 8 points in 7 games.
 
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Ricky Bobby

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Aug 31, 2008
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Does Korshkov bring anything special that will make him valuable in our lineup?

I get that he's got size but does he use it?

If he's counted on to be a scorer then he's already a bust as he'll struggle to find a role just Leivo.

But if he's got other another element or two to his game that bring value like being strong defensively, punishing hitter, agitator, great forechecker, good PKer, decent at faceoffs for a winger, etc. then he could still develop into an effective role player just like Brown, Komarov, Hyman, etc. are.

Does anyone have any insight?
 

Voodoo Child

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Jun 16, 2009
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I think it’ll probably go down as a bad pick too, but I don’t remember many Leafs fans wanting Kyrou, Hart or Girard at the time. People mostly wanted DeBrincat (would have been great) or Benson (no better than Korshkov).

Also, we got Grundstrom later in the same round, who’s looking good. Some picks hit, most don’t, missing on Korshkov (which I do think is likely) isn’t a big deal.

Kyrou is definitely a guy that while he went where he should have, has dramatically elevated his stock.

But Girard, Hart and Debrincat were all guys who we had people here on record saying they wanted (I was most after Carter Hart; he's the exact level of goalie prospect that should be ready to push once Andersen's deal expires).

You can't win them all but there's a few other names out there.


Jesper Bratt just had his rookie season, it started much better than it ended but he's a regular now and was picked in the fifth round or something.

Taylor Raddysh is a big bodied right winger but we've already got too many of those.

A bit undersized for a center but Rasmus Asplund seems to be generating talk among the Sabres loyal. Jonathan Dahlen as well for the Nux.

Fil Hronek is a slick right shooting D in the Wings system.

Cliff Pu has been the butt of many a joke but he has game.

Victor Mete, again, slick but small young D.

This was a deep draft with numerous guys with high end potential just sitting there for us to take, instead we gambled on Korshkov and only time will tell.

...

I would take all of these fools (and of course the aforementioned Kyrou, Hart, Debrincat and Girard) over Korshkov.

Not that he's by any means bad...but I do remember the big sell on him being that as a double overager 'he will be ready sooner'.

The KHL, in spite of some publicity issues from time to time (Lokomotiv Yaroslavl being no good, very very bad) while it will never come close to the NHL, is ever increasing its appeal among Russian players.

Zaitsev came over at 24 and signed his deal which came with heavy term at 25. Panarin did the same and he will get absolutely paid.

Suppose Korshkov does two more years, which burns most of his ELC and then comes over and needs a new deal for after one season with term or he bolts? We'll be paying over 35 million for the kids + Tavares at that point, while Kadri, Rielly and Andersen have new deals looming (6.5, 7.5 and 6.5 if things keep the way they have been for them).

He's probably about our fourth best wing prospect (behind Grundstrom, Bracco and SDA). On the big team Marner, Nylander, Marleau, Hyman, Brown, Kapanen and Johnsson, possibly Leivo. Marleau retires in two years, and its possible one of Brown/Hyman/Kapanen/Johnsson goes in a trade maybe. He's gotta be better than five of those guys and the three prospects ahead of him to even make the team.

If he was pick 44 or something, and not the first pick of the f***ing round, I could live with it. I don't see the next Kuznetsov or Panarin here.

There's always a chance Korshkov comes over in three years and becomes a reliable 35-45 point tweener winger. There is a small chance he could be something more, but damn...if we took Debrincat, who yes is yet another small winger but is something we lack; a pure shooter on the wing, we could have traded him for Matt Dumba by now, and that is where my consternation lies with the pick.

A bad pick - not necessarily a bad player, but until he's here, if he ever is, I stand by that hot take.
 
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indigobuffalo

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2016 and 2017 were drafts led solely by Hunter and his staff. Dubas had zero or very little input into drafts in both those years. It's well documented.

Can you provide a few links to this well documented claim?

Here’s what I remember from the 2016 draft.

Read that quote:
“DEV IS NOT MEANT TO REPLACE TRADITIONAL SCOUTING, BUT RATHER TO HELP ADD PERSPECTIVE TO PARTICULAR PROSPECTS, IDENTIFY POTENTIAL “STEALS” OR “BUSTS”, AND GAME THE DRAFT THROUGH THE IDENTIFICATION OF MARKET EFFICIENCIES AND INEFFICIENCIES.”

Now, to me, that sounds like Dubas’ wheelhouse, not Hunter’s.

At the end of the day, Dubas and Hunter were both reporting to Shanahan. The “face” of the draft was Hunter, but the input cake from all sides. And I have a strong feeling that Dubas made the call on Korshkov.
 

WTFMAN99

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Jun 17, 2009
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My anger was a bit toned down because we drafted Matthews. I had guys I liked over Korshkov and I didn't even know who the hell he was. Since then I have liked what I have heard...not as much as the other prospects. I wish he came over this summer.
 

Martin Skoula

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Oct 18, 2017
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Can you provide a few links to this well documented claim?

Here’s what I remember from the 2016 draft.

Read that quote:


Now, to me, that sounds like Dubas’ wheelhouse, not Hunter’s.

At the end of the day, Dubas and Hunter were both reporting to Shanahan. The “face” of the draft was Hunter, but the input cake from all sides. And I have a strong feeling that Dubas made the call on Korshkov.

I can't pull the quote up on my phone right now but I remember Hunter said right after the pick that they were surprised he was still there and were excited to take him as they had him ranked in the 1st round.

Hunters guys had Korshkov higher than #31.
 

LeafsNation75

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Jan 15, 2010
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The Leafs drafted Leo Komarov in 2006 and he didn't come over till 2013. We are actually at a point where we are doing okay offensively. Probably doesn't hurt to have someone stashed away for a couple of years.
The one major difference is Komarov was drafted in the 6th round at 180th overall. Korshkov was the 31st pick of the 2nd round and since the Leafs had finished with the worst overall record that season it meant that the 31st pick of the 2nd round at the time was the first pick to be made. So they could have selected anyone they wanted like like Alex DeBrincat which is who I wanted them to select at the time.
 

SprDaVE

Moderator
Sep 20, 2008
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Can you provide a few links to this well documented claim?

Here’s what I remember from the 2016 draft.

Read that quote:


Now, to me, that sounds like Dubas’ wheelhouse, not Hunter’s.

At the end of the day, Dubas and Hunter were both reporting to Shanahan. The “face” of the draft was Hunter, but the input cake from all sides. And I have a strong feeling that Dubas made the call on Korshkov.

The article you linked was purely opinionated and not something that was actually factual as to why the Leafs selected him. Like I said, I'm sure Dubas and his analytics team provided some form of analysis of the draft but literally every decision was made by Hunter at those 2 drafts. The 2015 draft was the only one that was apparently more of a united decision since it was a co-GM thing.

From a quick Google search. this is from Mirtle in May 2017:

This is where we move from pieced-together bits of information to speculation. Many outside of the Leafs organization expected Dubas to leave this spring. I had people suggesting it was going to happen as recently as a few days ago. It certainly appears that Lamoriello, Hunter and Babcock have largely taken over, even just by looking at what the organization did at last year’s draft and with some of the roster decisions.

Also Hunter mentioned after the draft that he was someone they loved and had to pick early.

Hunter is good at what he does and he made some good picks in his 3 drafts as the head man. I think some people around here boasted him as a scouting god though when he really isn't/wasn't. The Korshkov pick was controversial considering there were so many good players available to chose from. It hasn't panned out yet.
 

ULF_55

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Kyrou is definitely a guy that while he went where he should have, has dramatically elevated his stock.

But Girard, Hart and Debrincat were all guys who we had people here on record saying they wanted (I was most after Carter Hart; he's the exact level of goalie prospect that should be ready to push once Andersen's deal expires).

You can't win them all but there's a few other names out there.


Jesper Bratt just had his rookie season, it started much better than it ended but he's a regular now and was picked in the fifth round or something.
Taylor Raddysh is a big bodied right winger but we've already got too many of those.
A bit undersized for a center but Rasmus Asplund seems to be generating talk among the Sabres loyal. Jonathan Dahlen as well for the Nux.
Fil Hronek is a slick right shooting D in the Wings system.
Cliff Pu has been the butt of many a joke but he has game.
Victor Mete, again, slick but small young D.
This was a deep draft with numerous guys with high end potential just sitting there for us to take, instead we gambled on Korshkov and only time will tell.
...
A bad pick - not necessarily a bad player, but until he's here, if he ever is, I stand by that hot take.

A total of 8 players out of 180 selections have more NHL games than Korshkov.

He might bust, so might another 130 players selected.

Not a big deal.
 

Mess

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2016 was a real strinker of a draft for Hunter and that goes beyond just the questionable Korshkov pick of taking a 20 year old player passed over in 2 previous drafts with the #31 OA pick. Lets hope this still pans out but I'm dubious that it will. Every time he has had a chance to sign a Leaf contract, he quickly signs one with the KHL instead, showing little to no interest in NA hockey to date.

Early draft results are already in and it not pretty.

2016 4th 101 Keaton Middleton CA D 18 Rights expired
2016 5th 122 Vladimir Bobylev RU RW 19 Rights expired
2016 6th 179 Nicolas Mattinen CA D 18 Rights expired
2016 6th 152 Jonathan Walker US D 20 Rights expired

His selections in rounds 4-6 are already no longer in the Leafs organization as Leafs walked away from their rights.. No need for patience here as cutting loose prospects is all that one needs to know. With drafting like that who needs scouts as picking names randomly out of a hat make those above results possible.

What made this worse as the Leafs were picking first essentially in each round having earned that distinction by a last overall finish in the standings..

Thank goodness for Auston Matthews or else finishing 30th had little to no benefit beyond the #1OA pick with a draft lottery win.
 
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LeafsNation75

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2016 was a real strinker of a draft for Hunter and that goes beyond just the questionable Korshkov pick of taking a 20 year old player passed over in 2 previous drafts with the #31 OA pick.

Early draft results are already in and it not pretty.

2016 4th 101 Keaton Middleton CA D 18 Rights expired
2016 5th 122 Vladimir Bobylev RU RW 19 Rights expired
2016 6th 179 Nicolas Mattinen CA D 18 Rights expired
2016 6th 152 Jonathan Walker US D 20 Rights expired

His selections in rounds 4-6 are already no longer in the Leafs organization as Leafs walked away from their rights.. No need for patience here as cutting loose prospects is all that one needs to know.

What made this worse as the Leafs were picking first in each round have earned that by a last overall finish in the standings.. Thank goodness for Auston Matthews or else finishing 30th had little to no benefit beyond the #1OA pick with a draft lottery win.
How much of the Leafs walking away from their rights was Dubas not agreeing with those selections that Hunter had the final say in who they selected.
 

Swedish Gretzky

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Oct 12, 2017
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I think the Korshkov pick was a good one. Still too early to tell what his potential is but it was a good idea to stash him in overseas and freeing up a roster spot for another player while he matures.
 

4thline

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Jul 18, 2014
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Lol @ Mess being Mess.
Thank goodness for Auston Matthews or else finishing 30th had little to no benefit beyond the #1OA pick with a draft lottery win.

Korshkov- is 22 and currently has no reason to come over to NA, if he doesn't come over when he's clearly NHL ready and/or down to a single year ELC we'll worry. Until then comments of "no interest" come off as extremely ignorant

Grundstrom- tracks comparably to Hornqvist/Silfverberg. Two way player with grit, and legitimate 20+ goal upside

Woll- Starting goalie for a major nation at the WJC

Brooks- darkhorse to make the team, shredded the dub, very heady complete C

Chebykin- Komarov style stash and forget, 6 more years of rights
 

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