Is Kerfoot Good Defensively?

[The Abusement Park]

He's not a liability defensively, but he'd never be a got to guy for me in a defensive situation.

 

[The Kingslayer]

He's not a liability defensively, but he'd never be a got to guy for me in a defensive situation.

Yah. hes not Yakupov but he damn sure as hell aint Bergeron

 

[flyfysher]

He's not a liability defensively, but he'd never be a got to guy for me in a defensive situation.

Congrats! You just passed the first round to be the next Avs chief amateur scout (but not for the TML).

 

[ABasin]

Ever since he was traded to Toronto, all I've been hearing from Toronto fans and media is that Kerfoot is a 200 foot center, an elite defensive center, even a potential Selke candidate. This appears to be based not on actually watching him play, but on statistical analysis of his play.

Here's an example: Analyzing the Toronto Maple Leafs New Third Line Centre

Now, I don't have time to really delve into this, but my question to you is this?

Am I crazy? Has Kerfoot really been a great defensive player all along? If not, why is he scoring so high on "defensive" stats?

I'm not making this thread to bash Kerfoot. I'm making it because I'm genuinely a bit mystified by the monolithic opinion I'm seeing about Kerfoot from Leafs fans.

His defense is meh. Middle of the road at best. Kind of similar to Barrie, actually.

I don't know the exact numbers, but I surely don't recall him killing many penalties out there. Kind of similar to Barrie, actually.

In the end, Toronto upped their offensive capabilities with that trade, not their defense. The exact reverse of what Colorado did.

 

[Balthazar]

No, actually, trying to measure a skater's defensive acumen by goals against is flawed. It's every bit as bad as plus/minus because like that stat, you're discounting the most obvious thing--the goaltender.

He was one of the few good defensive players on a bad defensive team, and the puck moved in the right direction when he was on the ice. The fact that he and his linemates didn't really have the talent to score at a regular clip or really sustain drives in the attacking zone shouldn't really negate that. People think if he's some great defensive forward then he should have stemmed the tide all by his lonesome. That's not how it works, and besides, it's generally agreed he played higher in the lineup than he should have because of depth issues.

Penalty killing is also a misnomer. Bobby Holik was regarded as one of the best defensive centers of his generation and never killed penalties in NJ. And we'll see if that stands...I'm guessing Babs will try him in that role, and I think he'll be quite good at it. I don't think we necessarily have to assume Bednar didn't use Kerfoot on the PK because he didn't think he wasn't any good at it.

I really do wish though, that while I understand what they were getting at, the EvolvingWild twins didn't insist on mentioning Kerf in the same conversation as the Selke. It's made things way, way too polarizing, and besides which, I don't agree with it. He is a very good defensive player, but he's not in the upper echelon of talents in the league. I don't consider him to be some kind of elite shutdown guy, he's a good utility player who can play a defensive role and make plays at the other end. He was miscast as a 2nd line guy (or at the very least, a guy who had to drive the play on his line) but despite that, he still produced as a pretty good clip.

Ever wonder why you're the only Avs fan who thought Kerfoot was good defensively? That's because you're wrong.

He isn't good, he's extremely limited by his lack of size and never found a way around it unlike many other smaller players in the NHL. Physically stronger players do whatever they want with him at both sides of the ice.

 

[Freudian]

If the charts say he is, he must be.

 

[OwenNolan]

Ever wonder why you're the only Avs fan who thought Kerfoot was good defensively? That's because you're wrong.

He isn't good, he's extremely limited by his lack of size and never found a way around it unlike many other smaller players in the NHL. Physically stronger players do whatever they want with him at both sides of the ice.

I see you've been listening to the Kerdoot hate narrative in here. It's absurd.

But saying that it's not surprising because no-one in here can think for themselves.

 

[chet1926]

I see you've been listening to the Kerdoot hate narrative in here. It's absurd.

But saying that it's not surprising because no-one in here can think for themselves.

Come on, hate narrative. That's garbage. I think pretty much everyone on here knows what Kerfoot is capable of.

Some people in here who seem to be fans of his, think his skills are much more than what he is.

Most realistic people understand that he is a very soft 40ish point player as long as he is extremely sheltered and has PP time. He is not a faceoff wizard nor is he a high end defensive player.

I think most Avs fans are making the comments they are about Kerfoot, because they are absolutely sick of hearing the blatantly fraudulent comments coming from Toronto fans and media in regard to the type of player he is. He has already been hyped as the next great defensive 3C who is going win multiple Selke trophies. And that kind of commentary about an average middle six player, makes me want to puke.

I wish Kerfoot well, but I feel his time in Toronto will be short lived because the media/fans are setting him up to fail by expecting way too much of him.

 

[Scott Stevens]

No. He needs to be sheltered and play with two big guys. I liked him with Soderberg and Wilson.

Who is that on Toronto? Like Tavares and Mutthews?

 

[Balthazar]

If the charts say he is, he must be.

Are they the same charts that "prove" that Barrie is a 1st defenseman?

 

[Balthazar]

I see you've been listening to the Kerdoot hate narrative in here. It's absurd.

But saying that it's not surprising because no-one in here can think for themselves.

I've been watching him for 2 full years and I dont need anyone else to confirm that he sucks. Him being gone makes me f***ing happy, like even happier than getting Kadri. It's the biggest addition by substraction the Avs could do this summer and they did it.

 

[MonsterMack]

I see you've been listening to the Kerdoot hate narrative in here. It's absurd.

But saying that it's not surprising because no-one in here can think for themselves.

I for one love Kerdoot, he is my favorite doot. Please teach the rest of us how to think for ourselves so we can love the doot together!!!

 

[arun]

Patrice Kerferon

 

[Miri]

I see you've been listening to the Kerdoot hate narrative in here. It's absurd.

But saying that it's not surprising because no-one in here can think for themselves.

Thats golden coming from someone who had his own hate narrative regarding Barrie. Pot, kettle, black.

 

[Babel Salamander]

Toronto fans are just going to set themselves up for disappointment by having unrealistic expectations for him. If they regard him as a throw in to the Barrie-Kadri deal, they'll be pleasantly surprised by his decent offensive puck skills. If they are expecting him to be Selke candidate... well they will end up hating him.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

He was is and will be better than Jost and Compher. The Aves gave away BDK and will regret it for a decade.

 

[Gatorbait19]

He average 4 seconds a game on the PK


Leafs fans are an incredibly special group, some of them are beyond help at this point as well.

The delusion is just incredible. Not only is Kerfoot not the defensive wiz they’ve made him out to be, but the Naz/Barrie trade (along with their other moves), doesnt improve their playoff chances.

Kerfoot and Barrie are not very good defenders, or else they would’ve played even marginal PK minutes. Meanwhile, the leafs got rid of Zaitsev and Hainsey (by far their 2 biggest defenders on the PK), and have only replaced them with Barrie (and his 4 seconds of PK each game) and Ceci.

They’re going to have a great regular season and then find out pretty quickly how woefully suited they are for the playoffs.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Oh no the leafs lost Hainsey and Zaitsev and replaced him with Barrie. The horror.

 

[Ararana]

Last year we got to watch Ottawa fans freak out watching their pick fall further and further down the standings, this year we get to watch Toronto fans slowly realize Kerfoot is in fact awful and every day that passes Barrie gets closer and closer to his big pay day with the team of his choosing.

 

[Gatorbait19]

Oh no the leafs lost Hainsey and Zaitsev and replaced him with Barrie. The horror.

As far as I’m aware, penalty killing is still an integral part of the game.

 

[dionisus1122]

Ever since he was traded to Toronto, all I've been hearing from Toronto fans and media is that Kerfoot is a 200 foot center, an elite defensive center, even a potential Selke candidate. This appears to be based not on actually watching him play, but on statistical analysis of his play.

Here's an example: Analyzing the Toronto Maple Leafs New Third Line Centre

Now, I don't have time to really delve into this, but my question to you is this?

Am I crazy? Has Kerfoot really been a great defensive player all along? If not, why is he scoring so high on "defensive" stats?

I'm not making this thread to bash Kerfoot. I'm making it because I'm genuinely a bit mystified by the monolithic opinion I'm seeing about Kerfoot from Leafs fans.

Reading the comments in that article is.... interesting to say the least.

 

[VikingAv]

Last year we got to watch Ottawa fans freak out watching their pick fall further and further down the standings, this year we get to watch Toronto fans slowly realize Kerfoot is in fact awful and every day that passes Barrie gets closer and closer to his big pay day with the team of his choosing.

I actually expect him to re-sign with Toronto. They'll have the $$$ to sign one of Barrie/Muzzin, and all that money as a bonus and having most coming as a bonus in the (possible) lockout year, is very alluring.

One of my first reactions to this trade was that I'd like to have seen a conditional pick (2nd) coming back in case of Barrie re-signing. Doesn't add very much, but imo, this trade will be lopsided in favor of the Leafs if Barrie re-signs, despite the obvious balance it brings to our roster for the next 3 years.

 

[The Abusement Park]

As far as I’m aware, penalty killing is still an integral part of the game.

They still have Reilly, Dermott, Muzzin, and Ceci to do P.K..

 

[S E P H]

As far as I’m aware, penalty killing is still an integral part of the game.

You can go far with an average penalty kill, you can't go far with a below-average to average powerplay. Not that Barrie is amazing on the PP either, but he's also entering a unique situation where Toronto definitely have weapons to help Barrie with the man-advantage as well.

 

[Pokecheque]

Ever wonder why you're the only Avs fan who thought Kerfoot was good defensively? That's because you're wrong.

He isn't good, he's extremely limited by his lack of size and never found a way around it unlike many other smaller players in the NHL. Physically stronger players do whatever they want with him at both sides of the ice.

That's fine if I have to be the house contrarian on this one. It wouldn't be the first time.

As far as I’m aware, penalty killing is still an integral part of the game.

It is, and theirs wasn't that good to begin with. They're going to have to radically reshape how they do things...and with their current coach I have my doubts.

Overall, I don't love everything Dubas did from a Leafs fan standpoint. But they addressed their biggest need as the Avs addressed theirs--they finally have a dynamic puckmoving RHD who works well on the power play. But overall I'd say their defensive prowess took a hit with the departures of Kadri, Brown, and yes, even Gardiner. Add to that the facts that Hyman and Dermott won't be ready for the start of the season, Barrie and Andersen are notoriously slow starters, and the possibility that Marner won't be signed until late, and you have a Toronto team that may faceplant the first 10-15 games of the season. They also opted for a veteran playmaker to anchor their 4th line instead of a more steady defensive presence like Boyle, and last I checked both Harpur and Ceci were pretty bad defensively. I think the Leafs will be fine, but there's definitely reason for concern that they won't exactly come storming out the gate.

Kerf should be fine in a complementary/utility role. He's projected to be on a line with Moore and Kapanen and I think that line will be very solid defensively, though probably not that great in terms of production...but that's okay. I really don't know which forwards Babs likes to use on the PK, so I have no idea if Kerf will be on one of those units but we'll see.