Is Jon Cooper our weakest link?

[Maelmoor]

I don't mind people suggesting for a change, but doing so without a suggestion for a solution I don't give much for. What would be the point of getting rid of Cooper if there is no one out there that could improve things?

Think most people who wanted a change in coaching preferred someone like Quenneville, but since that ship sailed I don't see many good candidates out there.

If the main purpose is to get rid of Cooper, no matter what, then we might as well bring in Carlyle.

 

[LightningStrikes]

The answer is of course Tim Taylor. What’s he up to nowadays anyway?

 

[DFC]

I don't mind people suggesting for a change, but doing so without a suggestion for a solution I don't give much for. What would be the point of getting rid of Cooper if there is no one out there that could improve things?

Think most people who wanted a change in coaching preferred someone like Quenneville, but since that ship sailed I don't see many good candidates out there.

If the main purpose is to get rid of Cooper, no matter what, then we might as well bring in Carlyle.

We could swipe Sheldon Keefe from Toronto.

I don't know. There are always options. I think we keep talking about old crotchety coaches because they're the exact opposite of Cooper, but the answer might not be to go to the other extreme. It might just be to find somebody who's not crazily different from Cooper, but just better.

Or hell, if we do want to go "exact opposite," Mike Keenan hasn't officially retired yet.

 

[Outl4w]

Who else thinks something like this never happened in our locker room under Coop?



Warning: Foul language

100% never. We got the skill to win and isn't there a game tomorrow?

 

[Maelmoor]

We could swipe Sheldon Keefe from Toronto.

I don't know. There are always options. I think we keep talking about old crotchety coaches because they're the exact opposite of Cooper, but the answer might not be to go to the other extreme. It might just be to find somebody who's not crazily different from Cooper, but just better.

Or hell, if we do want to go "exact opposite," Mike Keenan hasn't officially retired yet.

I agree that when we make the change, I rather look at coaches like Keefe (though he won't probably be available), rather than a Maurice, Ruff etc kind of coach.

 

[PJ817]

Coopdapoop's contract was extended for 2 years on 3/26, on 4/8 Q signed with FL.

We could have and SHOULD have gotten Q... Have to believe he'd have said no to holding out until after the playoffs. JBitchBoi, however, is loyal to the handpicked, fairmaidens he gets as coaches and players (Sustr, for instance)

 

[Felonious Python]

We could swipe Sheldon Keefe from Toronto.

I don't know. There are always options. I think we keep talking about old crotchety coaches because they're the exact opposite of Cooper, but the answer might not be to go to the other extreme. It might just be to find somebody who's not crazily different from Cooper, but just better.

Or hell, if we do want to go "exact opposite," Mike Keenan hasn't officially retired yet.

as Italians say: A fat pope follows a thin pope.

 

[Hoek]

The fact that he signed with Florida of all teams tells me Q wasn't holding out for any of the playoff teams firing someone. Sorry but we never had a chance at him.

 

[wxkid23]

The fact that he signed with Florida of all teams tells me Q wasn't holding out for any of the playoff teams firing someone. Sorry but we never had a chance at him.

We did, until March 26.

 

[DekeR]

I get the puking and moaning about Coop, but at the same time the leadership of the players was lost as well. I never heard about the players getting together and admitting to the fact that they didn't have the intensity to actually pull off a win. This is on the players as well as the coaches, sure you can always say you can't fire the team so you fire the coach. Well you can strip the C and the A's from the players and change the locker room mentality. You can get some players that play the game with some fire when adversity hits or know how to up their game come playoffs instead of players that believe all they have to do is show up. This team had more skill than any other team in the POs, yet they let a team like Columbus outwork, out skate and win just about every battle for the lose puck. That falls on the players, lacking character.

 

[DFC]

I get the puking and moaning about Coop, but at the same time the leadership of the players was lost as well. I never heard about the players getting together and admitting to the fact that they didn't have the intensity to actually pull off a win. This is on the players as well as the coaches, sure you can always say you can't fire the team so you fire the coach. Well you can strip the C and the A's from the players and change the locker room mentality. You can get some players that play the game with some fire when adversity hits or know how to up their game come playoffs instead of players that believe all they have to do is show up. This team had more skill than any other team in the POs, yet they let a team like Columbus outwork, out skate and win just about every battle for the lose puck. That falls on the players, lacking character.

I just don't buy that every single player except two or three, like Cirelli and Paquette, who aren't exactly major CBJ targets, didn't play hard enough. I mean, yeah, they're all at fault, but they weren't given a gameplan that could beat what Torts was doing to them (...is Torts really Trotz in disguise???). They weren't winning races to loose pucks, a lot of times, because they were starting 10-15 feet behind the CBJ player who was ready and waiting for the dump in.

A lot of guys have stopped cutting hard to the net. But, again, when like 8 guys are struggling with the same problem, the bigger problem is usually the coach.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

We could swipe Sheldon Keefe from Toronto.

I don't know. There are always options. I think we keep talking about old crotchety coaches because they're the exact opposite of Cooper, but the answer might not be to go to the other extreme. It might just be to find somebody who's not crazily different from Cooper, but just better.

Or hell, if we do want to go "exact opposite," Mike Keenan hasn't officially retired yet.

My thing is, I can't see them taking a guy like Keefe (nothing against him) because Groulx is/will be the likely successor.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I just don't buy that every single player except two or three, like Cirelli and Paquette, who aren't exactly major CBJ targets, didn't play hard enough. I mean, yeah, they're all at fault, but they weren't given a gameplan that could beat what Torts was doing to them (...is Torts really Trotz in disguise???). They weren't winning races to loose pucks, a lot of times, because they were starting 10-15 feet behind the CBJ player who was ready and waiting for the dump in.

A lot of guys have stopped cutting hard to the net. But, again, when like 8 guys are struggling with the same problem, the bigger problem is usually the coach.

I just don't understand how a team as good as we were all season long couldn't make adjustments. I mean even if you dont know what to do, you can always look at tape of similar teams beating the trap. You would think that after so many times not being able to get into the offensive zone we would change something. Also out of all the experience they have in the playoffs, Coop didnt know how to beat it? Really makes no sense to me.

 

[T REX]

Coop absolutely had no answer for the trap...during the reg season and in the playoffs. Truly outcoach and outclassed. We aren't winning a cup with him as coach.

 

[DFC]

My thing is, I can't see them taking a guy like Keefe (nothing against him) because Groulx is/will be the likely successor.

I don't disagree. I was dealing more in the hypothetical--the ole "who's out there."

I mean, it's clear we won't be moving on from Cooper in the near future, regardless what our opinions are on him and how much of the fault in all this is his. I was mainly trying to make the point that Cooper's replacement, whenever that happens, won't necessarily be his exact opposite--an aged taskmaster with a cup or two under his belt.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Not the first time he struggled with the trap, Montreal did it a few years back and he had problems then, too.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Not the first time he struggled with the trap, Montreal did it a few years back and he had problems then, too.

Now I have to ask. Why is he struggling so much with this and why cant he find an answer? I mean the guy has won so many games but his teams have consistently struggled against the trap. It's not like it's the first time we have faced it in the playoffs, so why didn't he ever adjust?

 

[T REX]

Monster ego? Just doesn't have the skill set...expect it 24/7 next year. We'll see that stupid trap every other game.

 

[Todd1a]

My thing is, I can't see them taking a guy like Keefe (nothing against him) because Groulx is/will be the likely successor.

so we would go with a rookie nhl coach again ? why not bring a vet in thats won a cup or coached in the nhl before ?

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Now I have to ask. Why is he struggling so much with this and why cant he find an answer? I mean the guy has won so many games but his teams have consistently struggled against the trap. It's not like it's the first time we have faced it in the playoffs, so why didn't he ever adjust?

Brother, I wish I knew.

so we would go with a rookie nhl coach again ? why not bring a vet in thats won a cup or coached in the nhl before ?

Who would you bring in that is available, that was successful AND won a title? That is a really short list.
Honestly Todd i'm not big on the whole "has to have coached in the NHL" thing because the game has changed so drastically over the last 10/20/30 years. You have to manage egos, personalities, have a better understanding of being a leader other than being louder than everyone else, play styles have changed, goaltending has changed, everything. Its no different than being a manager at a company, you have to know how to push the right buttons with the right people, and put them in positions to succeed. I know i'm preaching to the choir with you guys about this stuff, but i'm finding more and more the "old guard" just doesn't have the same ability to do so anymore.

 

[DFC]

Now I have to ask. Why is he struggling so much with this and why cant he find an answer? I mean the guy has won so many games but his teams have consistently struggled against the trap. It's not like it's the first time we have faced it in the playoffs, so why didn't he ever adjust?

I'd probably be satisfied if we'd seen ANYTHING different as the series progressed. Just show them a different look--something. But we stuck to the same game and Coop, while talking to Pierre McGuire, basically said, "This is fine," while the house was burning down around him.

Our only success in the series came from spectacular individual efforts. And even those looked almost like they came from a place of frustration. Like, Stamkos thinking, "Well, nothing else is working, might as well try to stickhandle through three guys. Oh ****, it worked!"

 

[DekeR]

I will still tend to blame the players. Every team incorporates some form of trap, that's just the way it is. There is NOTHING NEW under the sun that hasn't been exposed before. And you just don't play one style of trap through the whole game, depending upon if your team is up or down, what period you are in and even to some extent the personnel you are dealing with, will all dictate the traps being deployed by you or against you. It is the players responsibility to recognize and adjust accordingly, with help from all the coaches of course. It was in the execution that was the failure, not because of a trap that they have seen too many times already.

 

[Todd1a]

Brother, I wish I knew.

Who would you bring in that is available, that was successful AND won a title? That is a really short list.
Honestly Todd i'm not big on the whole "has to have coached in the NHL" thing because the game has changed so drastically over the last 10/20/30 years. You have to manage egos, personalities, have a better understanding of being a leader other than being louder than everyone else, play styles have changed, goaltending has changed, everything. Its no different than being a manager at a company, you have to know how to push the right buttons with the right people, and put them in positions to succeed. I know i'm preaching to the choir with you guys about this stuff, but i'm finding more and more the "old guard" just doesn't have the same ability to do so anymore.

I don't know the answer but I know they need to move on from cooper and they should have hired coach Q from the blackhawks ans yes he was waiting for the lightning because as soon as cooper signed a new contract a week later Q was done going to the panthers.

 

[Hoek]

No he wanted to work for his buddy Dave Tallon otherwise why not wait for the playoffs to be over and see who gets fired? Why else would he immediately choose the Panthers who have been failing for ages and fired their last good coach for no reason? Only thing he was waiting on was for Boughner to be fired.

 

[Todd1a]

No he wanted to work for his buddy Dave Tallon otherwise why not wait for the playoffs to be over and see who gets fired? Why else would he immediately choose the Panthers who have been failing for ages and fired their last good coach for no reason? Only thing he was waiting on was for Boughner to be fired.

Because coach Q is close to Scotty Bowman and Yzerman so I'm sure he was thinking about the lightning since yzerman still has people here. he sat out there until cooper signed his deal