Is Jim Benning the worst GM in franchise history?

[Frankie Blueberries]

Here's a list of the history of our GMs and their time here (taken from Wikipedia):

General managers of the Vancouver Canucks

No.	Name	Tenure	Accomplishments during this term	Ref(s)
1	Bud Poile	February 25, 1970 – April 1973	No playoff appearances	[3][4][5]
2	Hal Laycoe	April 1973 – January 31, 1974		[5][6]
3	Phil Maloney	January 31, 1974 – May 31, 1977	1 division title and 2 playoff appearances	[6][7]
4	Jake Milford	May 31, 1977 – June 1982	1 Stanley Cup Finals appearance (1982) 1 conference title and 4 playoff appearances	[7][8]
5	Harry Neale	June 1982 – May 23, 1985	2 playoff appearances	[8]
6	Jack Gordon	June 4, 1985 – June 1, 1987	1 playoff appearance	[9][10]
7	Pat Quinn	June 1, 1987 – November 4, 1997	1 Stanley Cup Finals appearance (1994) 1 conference title, 2 division titles, and 7 playoff appearances	[10][11]
–	Mike Keenan (acting)	November 14, 1997 – April 19, 1998		[citation needed]
8	Brian Burke	June 22, 1998 – May 3, 2004	1 division title and 4 playoff appearances	[12][13]
9	Dave Nonis	May 6, 2004 – April 14, 2008	1 division title and 1 playoff appearance	[14][15]
10	Mike Gillis	April 23, 2008 – April 8, 2014	1 Stanley Cup Finals appearance (2011) Won Presidents' Trophy 2 times (2010–11, 2011–12) Won General Manager of the Year Award (2010–11) 1 conference title, 5 division titles, and 5 playoff appearances	[16][17]
11	Jim Benning	May 21, 2014 – present	1 playoff appearance	[2]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Some factors to consider:

• The GM's strengths and weaknesses when it comes to trades, drafting, free agency, contract negotiations, CBA knowledge, delegating and hiring the right people, etc. and the results of these;
• Team records/stats and making the playoffs;
• Term of the GM and their overall impact on the roster, i.e. were their decisions logical and defensible at the time that they were made? How much damage did they get a chance to do given the amount of time they were here?
  
• Budgets of the team depending on who was the owner at the time - this is huge not only for the player's payroll, but all the supplementary programs and benefits the team receives for its players (training staff, chefs, sleep doctors, etc.) as well as in hiring for other management positions;
• Changes in the league/rules, such as: loser points, less ties, and parity affecting league-wide performance; and
• Technology improving and having more data to go off, advanced stats, more resources available, etc.

Click to read more...

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Best at drafting but that’s a pretty low bar.
Getting a franchise center in EP and a puck moving defenseman like Hughes at the draft spots he got them outweighs any poor picks imo.
Worst at everything else imo. Signings and trades etc.
I’d put him around Nonis territory but could go either way. The bottom line is that he should have been fired by now.
As an aside, Vancouver has never had a really good GM, imo. Gillis was probably the best for adding key pieces to an already good roster but did a poor job once the peak period ended. Burke set the franchise up for over a decade with the Sedin draft that was pure genius but could never get a goalie to push the team over the top.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Best at drafting but that’s a pretty low bar.
Getting a franchise center and a puck moving defenseman like Hughes at the draft spot he got them outweighs any poor picks imo.
Worst at everything else imo. Signings and trades etc.
I’d put him around Nonis territory but could go either way. The bottom line is that he should have been fired by now.
As an aside, Vancouver has never had a really good GM, imo.

Nonis was only GM for the Canucks for 3 seasons though, so his term and impact was more limited than Benning. His drafting was arguably just as good as Benning given the picks available to him with mostly late picks (Schneider, Edler, Brown, Hansen, Raymond, and Grabner in 3 drafts is pretty solid, and that's leaving out Bourdon (RIP). But the 2007 draft was definitely horrendous).

I think it's also important to note that the moves that Nonis DIDN'T make ended up helping the team make the SCF in 2011. There's the notorious rumour that ownership wanted Brad Richards and Nonis refused to trade Edler, Kesler, and Schneider. That trade would still have huge implications today (no Horvat, Sutter - lol, Edler, and Pearson). And the Luongo trade is enough to make his trades one of his strengths, which also has implications today (no Markstrom).

Benning has done a much poorer job than Nonis did given the context of where the teams were at when each was/is GM.

 

[vanuck]

Without question.

 

[Hockey Rush]

I believe upon the completion of his tenure in Vancouver... I believe he will be regarded as one of the best in Franchise History.

Time shall tell if I am right.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I believe upon the completion of his tenure in Vancouver... I believe he will be regarded as one of the best in Franchise History.

Time shall tell if I am right.

Will he potentially draft some of the franchise's best players of all time? Sure, but that's expected when you finish near the bottom of the standings for five seasons. Doing the bare minimum should not be considered a success, at least not to me.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I believe upon the completion of his tenure in Vancouver... I believe he will be regarded as one of the best in Franchise History.

Time shall tell if I am right.

Agreed...this season will indicate whether the fruits of his labour will bloom..The mindset of professional sports is 'what have you done for me lately"..and Benning gets that opportunity this season.

7 months from now things could be perceived as completely different..(might have to run this poll again..?..)

Benning will also be known as the architect of this young core ,and that will never change.

 

[Hit the post]

I believe upon the completion of his tenure in Vancouver... I believe he will be regarded as one of the best in Franchise History.

Time shall tell if I am right.

Making the playoffs without relying on the Sedins carrying the team would be a first step. He's not better than Dave Nonis right now.

Jack Gordon was worse.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Agreed...this season will indicate whether the fruits of his labour will bloom..The mindset of professional sports is 'what have you done for me lately"..and Benning gets that opportunity this season.

7 months from now things could be perceived as completely different..(might have to run this poll again..?..)

Benning will also be known as the architect of this young core ,and that will never change.

Taking one season as a measurement of success is absurd and hilarious.
GMs need to be judged holistically, based on all of their decisions at the times that they were made, and then assessing that collectively.

Any moron could finish bottom 10 for five seasons, spend to the cap, and then make the playoffs. That is such a low standard. According to this logic, picking up a meth head hooker off Hastings would make you a ladies man.

 

[tyhee]

I believe upon the completion of his tenure in Vancouver... I believe he will be regarded as one of the best in Franchise History.

Time shall tell if I am right.

To play on your wording a bit, he is already universally regarded as one of the 11 best general managers in franchise history and will remain among the best 11 until his successor is hired.

In seriousness, it's really hard for most of us to give a reasonable answer to this question. Bud Poile, Hal Laycoe and Phil Maloney both as Canucks general managers and before they were Canuck general managers, but remember few of their moves well enough to express a reasonable opinion without spending a lot of time looking up transactions histories. I remember Jack Gordon but mostly from the horror of the day the trade of Neely and a pick that turned in to Glen Wesley for Barry Pederson, which taints my view of Gordon so strongly it is hard to remember much else he did.

All I can reasonably say is that it has to be close whether or not Benning is in the top 10 Canucks general mangers. There have been 11 so far who officially held that position.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Taking one season as a measurement of success is absurd and hilarious.
GMs need to be judged holistically, based on all of their decisions at the times that they were made, and then assessing that collectively.

Any moron could finish bottom 10 for five seasons, spend to the cap, and then make the playoffs. That is such a low standard. According to this logic, picking up a meth head hooker off Hastings would make you a ladies man.

Not when its the culmination of the years of building the team..context is important.

He's on his 2nd extension ... so he's obviously been absolved by the ownership (who finally recognized the team was starting a new cycle)

Next season he will be judged by the media, and the general fanbase..and if it goes well..the story changes...If thats a low standard for you,..well....C'est la vie.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

No.

Gordon takes the crown; Neale is up there, and Keenan’s reign as “de facto GM” were all worse.

 

[VanJack]

Jimbo got got off to a shaky start with some of his trades and UFA signings (Vey, Sbisa, Sutter, Gudbranson and Eriksson come to mind). Of course how many of these moves were his doing, and how many were mandated by ownership with playoff plums still dancing in their heads, will never be answered.

But he was hired by Linden and the Aquilinis' because of his scouting knowledge. And in that regard it's hard to argue with the results. And if Benning lasts through his latest three-year contract, he'll officially be the longest-serving GM in Canuck history, surpassing even the legendary Pat Quinn.

So no, he's far from the worst GM in Canuck history imo.

 

[Vancouver_2010]

Not sure since I didn't start following the Canucks since 1999. But he is worse than Burke, Nonis and Gillis.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Not when its the culmination of the years of building the team..context is important.

He's on his 2nd extension ... so he's obviously been absolved by the ownership (who finally recognized the team was starting a new cycle)

Next season he will be judged by the media, and the general fanbase..and if it goes well..the story changes...If thats a low standard for you,..well....C'est la vie.

I agree.
Benning has failed overall when you look at trades, contract extensions, free agent signings, the team's performance and record, and is average at drafting based on the picks that he has received. I mean, best case scenario you can give him a D-, but that's a generous "at least you tried" letter grade.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I agree.
Benning has failed overall when you look at trades, contract extensions, free agent signings, the team's performance and record, and is average at drafting based on the picks that he has received. I mean, best case scenario you can give him a D-, but that's a generous "at least you tried" letter grade.

Your opinion...Enjoy the season...

 

[Cogburn]

Oh, boy, another thread of this.

My answer is Burke, but I have nothing but my blind bias to base that on. Same problems year after year, and nothing but a plucky attitude and grit to solve it.

 

[Pavel96]

I agree.
Benning has failed overall when you look at trades, contract extensions, free agent signings, the team's performance and record, and is average at drafting based on the picks that he has received. I mean, best case scenario you can give him a D-, but that's a generous "at least you tried" letter grade.

It really doesn't matter what happens. The goalposts will be moved and apparently whatever happens is a success and yet they will always need more time, because you can't judge things so soon.

Apparently this is a great time to be a fan of the Vancouver Canucks, and if you don't feel it, you are simply toxic and a hater.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

It really doesn't matter what happens. The goalposts will be moved and apparently whatever happens is a success and yet they will always need more time, because you can't judge things so soon.

Apparently this is a great time to be a fan of the Vancouver Canucks, and if you don't feel it, you are simply toxic and a hater.

I don’t think it needs to be drawn in such extremes, nor are those extremes as one sided as you suggest. There seems to be a competing view point of “Benning’s the worst and if you don’t think so you’re an idiot” or “Benning’s the best and if you don’t think so you’re an idiot”. That leaves out a whole whack of fans who might sort of like him or sort of hate him or be indifferent to him altogether.

TL;DR - there’s more than two perspectives to be had on the matter, and there’s really no need to be “toxic” in expressing your view point - whatever that view point is.

 

[Hit the post]

I don’t think it needs to be drawn in such extremes, nor are those extremes as one sided as you suggest. There seems to be a competing view point of “Benning’s the worst and if you don’t think so you’re an idiot” or “Benning’s the best and if you don’t think so you’re an idiot”. That leaves out a whole whack of fans who might sort of like him or sort of hate him or be indifferent to him altogether.

TL;DR - there’s more than two perspectives to be had on the matter, and there’s really no need to be “toxic” in expressing your view point - whatever that view point is.

I'm of the view, the bar is set SOOOOOOOOOOOO LOOOOOOOOOW, it's really not much of an accomplishment not being the worst.

Throw in not being limited in spending money (other than the cap) and a real salary cap in place, means your job is easier than say past GMs of the club prior to Dave Nonis.

 

[mathonwy]

This is the type of summer crap posting I can get behind.

 

[EpochLink]

Benning will also be known as the architect of this young core ,and that will never change.

Agreed.

 

[Pavel96]

I don’t think it needs to be drawn in such extremes, nor are those extremes as one sided as you suggest. There seems to be a competing view point of “Benning’s the worst and if you don’t think so you’re an idiot” or “Benning’s the best and if you don’t think so you’re an idiot”. That leaves out a whole whack of fans who might sort of like him or sort of hate him or be indifferent to him altogether.

TL;DR - there’s more than two perspectives to be had on the matter, and there’s really no need to be “toxic” in expressing your view point - whatever that view point is.

They really can be as one sided as I have suggested. This has been seen repeatedly when claims are made based on specific statements and statistics that are then shown to be factually inaccurate. Upon showing proof of the inaccuracy, no concessions are made and further reasons are just given as to why the original point is still correct.

I wasn't suggesting people have to be toxic, while expressing their opinion. But that viewpoints from one side of the argument are repeatedly labeled as toxic, simply for existing. Logically, this makes that sentiment invalid.

What I am writing about is a viewpoint which has been repeatedly expressed on this board - hence why I am commenting on it. And it's been said many times before anyways, this is nothing new.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Nonis was only GM for the Canucks for 3 seasons though, so his term and impact was more limited than Benning. His drafting was arguably just as good as Benning given the picks available to him with mostly late picks (Schneider, Edler, Brown, Hansen, Raymond, and Grabner in 3 drafts is pretty solid, and that's leaving out Bourdon (RIP). But the 2007 draft was definitely horrendous).

I think it's also important to note that the moves that Nonis DIDN'T make ended up helping the team make the SCF in 2011. There's the notorious rumour that ownership wanted Brad Richards and Nonis refused to trade Edler, Kesler, and Schneider. That trade would still have huge implications today (no Horvat, Sutter - lol, Edler, and Pearson). And the Luongo trade is enough to make his trades one of his strengths, which also has implications today (no Markstrom).

Benning has done a much poorer job than Nonis did given the context of where the teams were at when each was/is GM.

We will have to agree to disagree on Nonis.
I don’t think his drafting was all that good. Pat White was an awful pick as was that whole draft and he also traded second round picks for useless players when the team needed additions for the playoffs. This franchise was in pretty good shape with the key pieces when he took over and he didn’t do nearly enough to improve an already good team. Benning took over a much poorer team. Not that this excuses his performance but that’s simply factual. The team was going to have a poor record no matter who was in charge. My criticism of Benning is that he has made the rebuild longer and less effective by not committing to it sooner and then by not implementing it more competently.
As for the trades Nonis didn’t make, personally I never put too much credence in rumours as to what ownership vs the GM wanted.
Anyways we are essentially arguing semantics as aside from decent drafting ( by Canuck standards) Benning has been just as bad as Nonis. Not much to choose between the two. I’d give a slight nod to Benning as he got a franchise center with the 5th overall pick and Hughes with the 7th. Of course Nonis didn’t generally have such high picks but those two picks could really help turn this franchise around.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

“Benning’s the best and if you don’t think so you’re an idiot”.

I don't read here every day, but I don't think anyone in favor of benning has ever made any such personal attacks on the other group, unlike the other side.