Speculation: Is it FINALLY time to talk about Crosby and the All-time PPG leaders?

[Jaded-Fan]

Crosby has played ten years, 752 games and STILL is top five in PPG. Of the four above him only Mario and Gretzky played more games. And in much higher scoring eras. Only five of the top ten have played more games than Sid.

For years we have been saying it is too soon to use career PPG with Sid. I think that it is about time to use it as a measuring stick of him against some of the all-time greats.

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[Pancakes]

Crosby has played ten years, 752 games and STILL is top five in PPG. Of the four above him only Mario and Gretzky played more games. And in much higher scoring eras. Only five of the top ten have played more games than Sid.

For years we have been saying it is too soon to use career PPG with Sid. I think that it is about time to use it as a measuring stick of him against some of the all-time greats.

It's impressive, no doubt about it.

It's gonna go down though unless he can defy time like Jagr. I bet Sid will be like Gretzky though and will retire early. I can't see him playing into his 40s or much past his late 30s. He'll want to hang them up I think when he's no longer able to be a dominant player. Just my gut feeling. Gretzky could have played more seasons when he retired but he decided not to.

 

[Vyruz Reaper]

Sid is a stud. With his injuries (knocks on wood) behind him and some full seasons under his belt - I don't think this was ever a doubt.

I feel like because of his concussions, people used his incomplete seasons to discredit his all time scoring prowess.

 

[Vyruz Reaper]

It's impressive, no doubt about it.

It's gonna go down though unless he can defy time like Jagr. I bet Sid will be like Gretzky though and will retire early. I can't see him playing into his 40s or much past his late 30s. He'll want to hang them up I think when he's no longer able to be a dominant player. Just my gut feeling. Gretzky could have played more seasons when he retired but he decided not to.

But he will still be top-10 or top-15 at worst.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Still way to early IMO. Hes in his prime and his twilight years will drag down his PPG.

 

[HuskerTornado]

And quite a bit in the 2nd dead puck era.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Still too early, let's see where he's at in 5 years. It sucks for him, but you have to include the decline years if you're comparing him to guys who have already retired.

 

[Crafton]

i'd wait till he hit 1000 games. i think by then there will be some drop-off but he'll still be above Forsberg.

 

[Penske]

Still too early, let's see where he's at in 5 years. It sucks for him, but you have to include the decline years if you're comparing him to guys who have already retired.

For sure but it's equally impressive to be still doing it in the current NHL.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Still too early, let's see where he's at in 5 years. It sucks for him, but you have to include the decline years if you're comparing him to guys who have already retired.

On the flipside of that argument, two of the guys ranked ahead of him (Bossy and Orr) never had the "decline years" due to injury drag down their totals. So their career PPGs are based entirely on their peak years.

Also, a guy like Forsberg might have played into his 30s, but he was often injured, so the bulk of his GP were in his prime years. It's not like Forsberg had a bunch of full 82-game sub-par years when he was 35+ to drag down his career totals. His career PPG is largely based on his prime years.

It only gets interesting when you compare Sid's career PPG to guys like Sakic, Yzerman, etc., who played into their late 30s and had some years later on that dragged down their prime PPG. But even still, Sid would probably a]have to play until he was 40 and b]average 50 points or less for the bulk of his 30s for his career PPG to drop that far.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The problem for me is that it's still too early, he'll likely play a few years where he will be below a PPG and it will drop his #'s...remember when Mario was #1? Then came out of retirement and dropped? It takes just a couple mediocre years and it drops.

 

[NMK11]

The sad part to me is how few games he's played for being in the league so long. His point totals would be so much more impressive had he not missed as much time earlier in his career. Still, a treat getting to watch one of the all time greats.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think it's insane that anyone in this modern era is even within striking distance of Orr's PPG. That's almost the definition of madness, IMO.

 

[Shady Machine]

It will dip at some points depending how long he plays, but it's still extremely impressive. The good news is that he will have young talented wingers in their primes during his early to mid 30's if all works out as expected. I could see him being an Art Ross contender for the next 5 years.

 

[UnrealMachine]

You have to normalize the stats to reflect the scoring rate during each player's career. The average team scored almost a full 1.0 goals/game more in the 80s than during Sid's era.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It will dip at some points depending how long he plays, but it's still extremely impressive. The good news is that he will have young talented wingers in their primes during his early to mid 30's if all works out as expected. I could see him being an Art Ross contender for the next 5 years.

Yep. And just when Sid will start needing some real help instead of puck hounds with no hands and questionable hockey IQ.

You have to normalize the stats to reflect the scoring rate during each player's career. The average team scored almost a full 1.0 goals/game more in the 80s than during Sid's era.

Yeah. The huge discrepancy in league scoring can't be ignored. The fact that he's still in the mix despite that discrepancy (not to mention bargain bin linemates in a cap world) is pretty incredible.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I am not sure that he dips all that much in future years. He has played almost 800 games, and most years already he does not play an entire year. Look at the lists, even the players with the most longevity only played 1200 or so games. So two thirds of Sid's career, at best, is over. Let us say that he averages 1.1 point a game over that last third of a career. That would drop him to 1.25 points per game. Which would drop him to 8th overall, but with only two players above him playing more games. The long and short of it is that at this point his totals will not likely drop significantly as the bulk of his career is in the bag, even if he has a fairly long career on average.

 

[Konig96]

I'm still in awe at Mario's numbers. 690 goals in 915 games. The guy didn't even play a 1,000 games and put up over 1,700 points. Then you look at how many games he missed in his prime. Add on top of that retiring the first time at 32 after putting up 161 and 122 points. No doubt he would have finished fairly close to Gretzky had he been healthy. Can't imagine the points Sid would have put up if he had played in the 80's. Ovi would have scored 200 goals a season. lol

 

[Nakawick]

Lots of guys who played in the same era on that list.

 

[Jacob]

PPG average is such a ridiculous thing to discuss in the middle of someone's prime.

Crosby could retire tomorrow or he could pull a Jagr or Yzerman where he's impressively productive, but not nearly elite, in his early 40s. Either would drastically impact PPG but the latter would probably make Crosby's overall career more impressive, not less, despite negatively affecting PPG.

Ultimately PPG is something I might consider after total career statistics, peak production, and hardware won.

 

[#66]

Downright dominance by Sid. Just as good as anyone ever.

Just remember... Not only does he play a 200' game in an era with better defenses and goalies... But he plays in an era where he gets 20 mins a game instead of the close to 30 min nights of Mario, Gretz and other stars listed. Also never getting 2 full mins on a PP.

His number are downright incredible.

 

[canadianguy77]

Consider the linemates who have flanked him for the majority of his career, it makes what he's he's been able to do statistically all the more impressive.

(And no, I don't need to be told that Kunitz was once an effective offensive player...I just know that he's no Backstrom, Panarin, or Seguin, and never was)

 

[cygnus47]

PPG average is such a ridiculous thing to discuss in the middle of someone's prime.

Crosby could retire tomorrow or he could pull a Jagr or Yzerman where he's impressively productive, but not nearly elite, in his early 40s. Either would drastically impact PPG but the latter would probably make Crosby's overall career more impressive, not less, despite negatively affecting PPG.

Ultimately PPG is something I might consider after total career statistics, peak production, and hardware won.

It's the sort of thing you have to grade on a curve with league scoring, age etc.

 

[Al Smith]

Whenever I watch a Pens game on a Canadian feed, the praise never stops for Sid, and they almost always post his points/game and compare him to the few who are above him.

The bigger discussion is when those same media will start also talking about Geno (14th on the list; 13th if you exclude Kent Nilsson) in the same breath.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Crosby's era I think of consistent dominance.

Ye there's years where someone beats him
However every year he is at the top.

Where is Jamie Benn this year?
(Example)

Giroux??

They don't stay Crosby stays