Is hockey technically a British sport of origin?

[gintonic]

Recently had an interesting discussion with teammates on this. It's my understanding the most widely accepted set of facts regarding hockey's origin was that a few British soldiers while stationed in Canada are credited with inventing hockey as we know it. So does this make it a British sport?

A similar analogy would be something along the lines of some American soldiers over in Afganistan came up with some new sport that took off in popularity, would it be considered an American sport or an Afgani sport?

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[Dans]

In all likelihood, this is correct. We are very good at inventing sports and not managing to be much good at any of them, so this would fit a common pattern.

The football team might prove me otherwise this summer, but I doubt it.

 

[Brodie]

Well that would depend if anyone in the US cared about that new sport... if not, I imagine it would be credited to the Afghans much like hockey is credited to Canadians.

Yes, hockey was invented by British soldiers. But it's kind of an accident really, I doubt they even thought of what they were doing. It's the combination of hurling, shinty and field hockey that could be found in any garrison in the British Empire adapted for the icy conditions. Over time it caught on with the locals.

 

[Dom]

It really depends what you define as hockey. The game evolved from different origins before rules were established.

Dozens of paintings by artists of the Dutch and Flemish schools in the era of the Enlightenment and earlier document winter amusements, including skating, and skating with a stick and ball. One painting, held by the Kunsthalle, Hamburg, and attributed to Hendrick Avercamp (1585-1634), or someone from his circle, is entitled “Winter Landscape with Skaters and Hockey Players.†The so-called hockey players may, however, be engaging in kolven, a Dutch club and ball game played either on a court or on ice.

http://www.sihrhockey.org/origins_report.cfm

Painting in question

http://img.freebase.com/api/trans/raw/wikipedia/images/en_id/3035478?maxwidth=80&maxheight=80&mode=fillcropmid

 

[Bobby Blowhard]

Its just about impossible to date and credit the creation of hockey. Field hockey predates bandy (an on ice version) which predates hockey as we know it. Bandy, the closest thing that could be considered the origin of hockey, has been recorded in Russia as early as the 11th century.

Even in Mongolia, for what it is worth, a tradition of beating dung with a stick across the frozen steppes while herding livestock, has been boasted as the ancestry of modern hockey.

Early settler accounts in lower Canada have documented natives playing an on ice game with sticks, a ball and net in a famous poem, the name of which escapes me now. Supporting this is the carbon dating of a hockey stick type piece of equipment found in Eastern Canada and now held by a Quebec collector. That stick, it is said, dates back to the 1600's.

That being said the OP may a slight argument as the first accounts of hockey in Canada date back to the 1840's or so and it being played at a British military post in Halifax.

Further credence is given to this theory by the fact that hockey in Canada was originally played on bone skates, which as best I know would have been introduced by the Dutch via British settlers.

As for the Russian version above, I have not read any account of skates being used, which I would argue is a defining component of modern hockey.

All and all it is an extremely difficult origin to date and an even more difficult argument to prove. I would say however that when the athletic department at McGill officially documented the rules of the game they called hockey and played that first game on March 3rd 1876, the modern game of ice hockey separated itself from all other forms of the sport and was thus born.

As an aside, officially, the oldest hockey stick in Canada originated in Nova Scotia and dates back to 1852. It just sold for 2.2 M and is on display at the hhof.

 

[Eisen]

I actually saw in an NHL DVD that it originated in Holland and was being brought over by the Dutch settlers. If I remember correctly that is, watched that a long time ago.

 

[Dom]

You can also argue that all Canadians in 1852 were in fact British.

 

[Brodie]

You can also argue that all Canadians in 1852 were in fact British.

That wouldn't be an argument, it would be stating a well defined fact.

 

[finchster]

No, hockey developed from different sports like Hurley, rugby, lacrosse and other older ball and stick games from different areas. I don’t think a single country can lay claim to the ‘origins’ of hockey. Until there were codified rules, I would say hockey wasn’t really created. The UK gets the title of creator of soccer because they were first to codify rules, I think the same applies to hockey and Canada as its creator.

 

[Brodie]

One could argue that Canada was still a British territory in 1876. But then we'd just be getting pedantic, wouldn't we?

 

[SilverSeven]

Well, the first time that true hockey was played wasnt by british soldiers in Kingston. There are about a dozen accounts of hockey like games from all over the world, including soldiers in Kingston.

It all comes down to what you define as hockey. The game drew from a lot of sources from all over the world, but true hockey was born here.

As for the argument that Canada didnt exist, again, semantics. To say that we were brits is a stretch. Much of the population had never even been to Britain, and did not identify themselves as British.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Well, the first time that true hockey was played wasnt by british soldiers in Kingston. There are about a dozen accounts of hockey like games from all over the world, including soldiers in Kingston.

It all comes down to what you define as hockey. The game drew from a lot of sources from all over the world, but true hockey was born here.

As for the argument that Canada didnt exist, again, semantics. To say that we were brits is a stretch. Much of the population had never even been to Britain, and did not identify themselves as British.

You can argue semantics all you want, but Canadians still identified themselves as British throughout the first world war.

 

[overpass]

Canadians identified as both British and Canadian when hockey was invented. The term British did not refer to the British Isles, but to the British Empire.

Sir John A. MacDonald, 1891: "A British subject I was born — a British subject I will die."

That said, I guess you could argue that hockey was British in origin, but it would be more precise and correct to say that it was Canadian in origin.

 

[SilverSeven]

You can argue semantics all you want, but Canadians still identified themselves as British throughout the first world war.

Some certainly did. Hell, you can still find older Canadians who do. Doesnt mean the majority did.

Much of Canada didnt even want to go to war, but didnt have much choice in the matter. Further actions by Germany in the war tended to change sentiments towards the war though. Furthermore, after the war, Canada signed into the LON seperately from Britain.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Canadians identified as both British and Canadian when hockey was invented. The term British did not refer to the British Isles, but to the British Empire.

Sir John A. MacDonald, 1891: "A British subject I was born — a British subject I will die."

That said, I guess you could argue that hockey was British in origin, but it would be more precise and correct to say that it was Canadian in origin.

So essentially, since Canadians were mostly British Subjects until 1949:

At that point we still had enough "British Hockey momentum" to win Gold in 1952, but it took another 50 years to win Gold again, on our own this time, after the game was taken over and dominated by Russian Bandy players. Distracted we may have been, playing in somewhat more local annual tournaments trying to win some British guy's "auld mug".

Of course up until that time (1949) only 2 countries Great Britain and some "Dominion" had ever won Gold in Hockey.

So, yeah.

 

[Bobby Blowhard]

That wouldn't be an argument, it would be stating a well defined fact.

 

[lextune]

Hockey is old.

 

[lextune]

Doesn't every Canadian have a picture of Queen Elizabeth II over their dinner table...?

 

[overpass]

Some certainly did. Hell, you can still find older Canadians who do. Doesnt mean the majority did.

Much of Canada didnt even want to go to war, but didnt have much choice in the matter. Further actions by Germany in the war tended to change sentiments towards the war though. Furthermore, after the war, Canada signed into the LON seperately from Britain.

You could argue that attitudes started to change around the time of the first world war, but up to that point almost every Canadian would have considered themselves to be British as well as Canadian.

In fact, Canada became considerably more economically integrated with the UK from Confederation through the end of the 19th century, and were considered to be an integral part of the British Empire. At the time, being British had nothing to do with "having been to Britain", it was about being part of the British Empire.

 

[Brodie]

Anyone arguing that residents of the Dominion of Canada in 1876 considered themselves Canadian instead of British is just living in a fantasy land.

Canadian national identity didn't begin to emerge until World War I, as has been stated. I'd recommend the Cambridge History of the British Empire's edition on Canada and Newfoundland written in 1933... it describes the then burgeoning sense of nationhood in those dominions in the years leading up to the Statute of Westminster and formal independence.

 

[Brodie]

Doesn't every Canadian have a picture of Queen Elizabeth II over their dinner table...?

No one could fault them if they did, she is the Queen of Canada.

 

[MXD]

Actually, it could be argued that the first non-european capitain to win the Stanley Cup was Ed Litzenberger.

And -- even more odd -- it could also be argued, even though I don't have the citizenship details about this guy, that the first non-european capitain to lead his team to the Cup was russian-born Johnny Gottselig.

But we're really disgressing here.

 

[eastcoaster]

You can argue semantics all you want, but Canadians still identified themselves as British throughout the first world war.

English Canadians perhaps but from what I've read in the history books I'm pretty sure most French-Canadians who would have strongly disagreed with you.

 

[finchster]

Canadians identified as both British and Canadian when hockey was invented. The term British did not refer to the British Isles, but to the British Empire.

Sir John A. MacDonald, 1891: "A British subject I was born — a British subject I will die."

You have to look into the context of that speech. Canadian nationalism is quite new phenomenon (if it ever developed), as such aligning yourself with the British was an example of Canadian nationalism. The Liberal party wanted closer ties to the United States and Macdonald was afraid that the United States would eventually annex Canada.

Macdonald used that speech to win the election 1891 and whip up English Canadian nationalism. You have to also take into context that Canadian politicians saw the British Empire as an avenue to increase prestige and eventually, become more powerful than the British.

It wasn't really until Wilfrid Laurier that a separate Canadian nationalism started to form

 

[Brodie]

They tended to support the Liberals who were pressing for greater independence, but Confederation worked well for the French speakers. It's not like they constituted a political force or anything, though.