Mr. Hab said:
Not really worth responding to someone who writes, "Mary-o" instead of Mario.
It would be like responding to a 12 year-old. (And, I'm not saying that I'm the most mature person on earth, either!! but, typing "Mary-o" is simply childish).
Another childish Gretzky fan with way too much "angry" pride...?
It may have childish, but no worse than somebody constantly referring to Gretzky as "Toe" or using moronic opinions and outright lies to support their case. I`m perfectly willing to debate the facts as long as people can stick to the facts. For example, if you`re going to say that Gretzky`s 200+ point seasons were meaningless because they occurred in the 80s, don`t go and talk about how great Lemieux`s 199 pt season was because it was in the 80s too. Or say Gretzky was no good because he didn`t fight; exactly how many times has Lemieux dropped the gloves?
chooch said:
Happy New Year to you as well Chooch, this place wouldn`t be the same without you. I actually enjoy your posts on the rare occasions when you discuss something other than Gretzky-bashing. I even thought your anti-Gretzky posts were a little amusing at first, but you need some new material.
Btw, I`m not a Gretzky fan, but I don`t hate him either.
chooch said:
1) he was a total minus over the last 12 years of his career. The reason its brought up a lot on these boards is that it tells you a lot about the first 7 or eight years. Its about style of play if you want me to be direct - since you bring up Mario, its one thing to be a minsu because you have a hip needing surgery and one one leg like in the Olympics or with 3 serious back surgeries that render you unable to tie your skates before games.
For the one-millionth time, your statement about him being a minus in his last 12 years is a lie, but you`ve been saying it for over a year here so why stop now. What does his first 8 years tell you about his style of play? If it were true that he was on the ice for 4 goals against every game that he had 3 points, he wouldn`t have led the league in +/- for four years. What he contributed offensively far outweighed any defensive shortcomings he may have had.
Also if you would`ve looked at the Lemieux years I quoted, most of them were before his injury troubles, which makes your excuse completely irrelevant. Anyways, that excuse gets tiresome. Wayne Cashman played the majority of his career with horrible back pains; he had to have someone tie his skates as well, but his +/- marks were never as bad as Lemieux`s.
I say he was protected by the NHl and IMG and you bring up Billy Tibbets rap sheet (what about McSorley's rap sheet and 99's love affair with him?
I think raping a 14 year-old is far worse than an on-ice stick infraction.
there's nota person whos watched hockey who woudl agree with you that Mario was protected on the ice and wayne wasnt. Or that it was equal....
Could you please explain what Jay Caufield was doing on Pittsburgh then (he wasn`t a hockey player), or all the whining and crying after the Shaw hit. Btw, when Gretzky was always leading the Canada Cup in scoring, who was his bodyguard then? I don`t recall Semenko or McSorley on those teams.
Here's a quote after 10 seconds of research on the Gordie pensions thing:
Net Worth also claims that Wayne Gretzky ('The Great One') is partly to blame for low salaries and lousy pensions. "Gretzky has been well aware of pension issues and the failings of the NHLPA since 1985," say the authors, "yet he's chosen to avoid the controversy. Gretzky's image may be untarnished for the fans and corporations, but a lot of players won't forget his reluctance to get involved when he could have made a difference single-handedly."
To blame for low salaries? That`s about as ridiculous as the way some blamed Gordie Howe for low salaries in the 50s, or how Ray Bourque got blamed for some Bruin players being underpaid. As for the pensions, it just says he stayed out of it; you`re always implying that he fought against the old-timers. You still didn`t tell us what Lemieux did to support the players. Since in your opinion he was a better player than Gretzky, he could made a difference single-handedly.
Net Worth is an important book, but don`t take everything in it as the Gospel. They tell some story later in the book about Bob Pulford and Punch Imlach which the Tim Horton biography a few years later said likely never happened.
Finally do you notice any difference in content at all between Waynegretzky.com and Mariolemieux.org??
Not really, they both mention charity work they`ve done and have a section about their career accomplishments.
