Is Gostisbehere a Norris contender at the end of this season?

[Kcb12345]

This is probably the most unique aspect of his game. I cannot recall watching another defenseman literally juke guys out of their skates they way Ghost does. It's like he's not even playing hockey, but instead is playing basketball and breaking ankles. He's also the most gifted player I've ever seen at knocking down clearing attempts. He's just so freaking agile.

If you can't recall another dman walking the line or breaking ankles at the line or making moves around anyone at any time, then it's clear you haven't seen Klingberg play. Ghost is good at it too for sure but this is a major part of Klingberg's game. I will say, Klingberg is one of the most flashy dmen around the league, but you wouldn't believe some of the moves he pulls off that don't make the highlights just because his teammates won't finish the play. I Also will say though, Ghost is a beast and I'm obsessed with his shot. Klingberg doesn't use his even near enough, he is almost all about passing and dangling to setup teammates.

 

[Baxterman]

Hahaha dude... you seriously believe results would be the same today then they were in November? Ghost play has been nothing short of spectacular in those 4 months and you know how "What have you done for me lately" HFB can be.

Put our fickle argument aside and use your common sense, you know I'm correct, even if you still disagree Ghost is a contender, you KNOW results wouldn't be the same or even close

The bolded part I agree with you on, the previous line not so much.

 

[mja]

have you guys still learned nothing from the heydays of ''LOLZ NO KARLSSON / BURNS ARE DA BESTEST D'' ???

seriously, stop

go read the definition of defense and before replying, go ask a professor, and before replying, go watch ****in hockey games

Talk about irony. In a post arguing that Ghost shouldn't be a contender for a Norris, you lump him in with 2 of the last 3 Norris winners?

I wonder how many of these Flyer fans think that Pierre-Marc Bouchard should have won a Norris or two in his career?

Wait, what?

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Not sure what your point is here? Are you suggesting Ghost isn't good in his own zone?

he's not better defensively than Doughty, Suter, Hedman, Vlasic, Lindholm, Josi, Pietrangelo just to name a few

but yes he's better than Karlsson and Burns defensively

 

[mja]

he's not better defensively than Doughty, Suter, Hedman, Vlasic, Lindholm, Josi, Pietrangelo just to name a few

but yes he's better than Karlsson and Burns defensively

No one's claimed he's better defensively than any of those guys.

 

[Appleyard]

Speaking of his defense...

he has allowed less GA/60 at 5v5 than any other top 4 Dman in the NHL this season. (1.41)

And has the best GF% at 5v5 of any top 4 Dman. (66.15%)

Though he has frankly had good luck. (his 2.06 ExGA is ~10th amongst top 4 Dmen, his 53.06 ExGF% is ~30th amongst top 4 Dmen)

 

[AzHawk]

nope

 

[Jumptheshark]

todays home work assignment is see where he is this season for average minutes played per game for D men?

Top 10?
top 20?
30? 40? 50? 60?

he sits at 62

for me that selective playing by the coach

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

I wonder how many of these Flyer fans think that Pierre-Marc Bouchard should have won a Norris or two in his career?

I'm going to go with zero of them.

todays home work assignment is see where he is this season for average minutes played per game for D men?

Top 10?
top 20?
30? 40? 50? 60?

he sits at 62

for me that selective playing by the coach

It definitely is selective playing, but our coach is an actual moron.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Since a Norris is awarded for a full season, no, it's not. That means he was playing what, 19 minutes on average for the balance of the games? Spending almost 4 minutes a game on the PP and not killing penalties?

I'm sorry, it just doesn't cut it. You can be happy about your player making progress, and he'll get his due eventually if he keeps it up, but he's far behind "contender" status as of right now.

I don't think we're on the same page here.... if the Norris was voted upon as best defenseman in the league, Hedman would be head And shoulders above everyone. My only argument is that based on the history and criteria, Ghost is in the running. There's no way you can call Klingberg a favorite and not ghost

 

[mja]

todays home work assignment is see where he is this season for average minutes played per game for D men?

Top 10?
top 20?
30? 40? 50? 60?

he sits at 62

for me that selective playing by the coach

He gets top pairing minutes at even strength and has since December. He doesn't get PK time and he usually (though less and less more recently) gets benched late when the Flyers have a one-goal lead because his coach is a f***ing moron who thinks playing our worst 5 players simultaneously and going into a prevent defense is winning hockey. He'd be a PK god and we'd have far fewer infuriating shifts getting pinned in our own zone late in games if our coach could completely remove his head from his own ass.

He has so much more to offer. He's been our best all around defender for months and months now. He's been better than Provorov defensively and it hasn't even been all that close in my opinion.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

If you can't recall another dman walking the line or breaking ankles at the line or making moves around anyone at any time, then it's clear you haven't seen Klingberg play. Ghost is good at it too for sure but this is a major part of Klingberg's game. I will say, Klingberg is one of the most flashy dmen around the league, but you wouldn't believe some of the moves he pulls off that don't make the highlights just because his teammates won't finish the play. I Also will say though, Ghost is a beast and I'm obsessed with his shot. Klingberg doesn't use his even near enough, he is almost all about passing and dangling to setup teammates.

Yeah, no.... in this area Klingberg isn't as good

 

[Kcb12345]

Yeah, no.... in this area Klingberg isn't as good

Trolling I see considering Klingberg actually is probably the best in the league at it. Does it several times every game. I never noticed Gostisbehere's "moves" near as much. Klingberg built a career doing these, it's literally what he's best at.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

he's not better defensively than Doughty, Suter, Hedman, Vlasic, Lindholm, Josi, Pietrangelo just to name a few

but yes he's better than Karlsson and Burns defensively

Okay, agree fully.. but change Karlsson to Klingberg. Karlssons game In his own zone, like Ghosts has gotten a lot better.

Ghost isn't as good as Doughty, Suter, Hedman, Josi or Pie but I absolutely put him at least even with Vlasic and Lindholm overall.. something I wouldn't have claimed back In November. It can't be over expressed how beast-like he's been in all facets

 

[Lebowski]

I don't think we're on the same page here.... if the Norris was voted upon as best defenseman in the league, Hedman would be head And shoulders above everyone. My only argument is that based on the history and criteria, Ghost is in the running. There's no way you can call Klingberg a favorite and not ghost

Klingberg has more production, is tied for lead in points on his team as opposed to being 23 points behind and gets more ice time. I don't see how you manage to equate these two so far this season. Klingberg is a top 5 contender for the award right now in my book, but I don't think he'd be top 3.

As for Hedman, there's things playing against him. He has solid offensive production, but put in perspective and the fact he's on an offensive powerhouse, his numbers aren't quite as meaningful. I don't see why you'd think he should be head and shoulder above everyone. Statistically, that's just not the case.

You can't get Norris consideration playing as little as Ghost, and not playing on the PK at all doesn't help either. That's just the way it is. If you want to argue he's more two-way than offensive specialist, his usage will have to reflect that. Maybe it's the coach's fault. In any case, that's just too bad for him because it'll take him out of the discussion, unless he does something crazy in the upcoming 20 something games.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Trolling I see considering Klingberg actually is probably the best in the league at it. Does it several times every game. I never noticed Gostisbehere's "moves" near as much. Klingberg built a career doing these, it's literally what he's best at.

Hahahaha, okay I'm just going to ignore you now. He does it at least 5 times a game, every game

 

[mja]

I'm going to go with zero of them.

I mean, is he getting confused with Marc-Andre Bergeron? He is, isn't he.

I mean, Ghost is only on pace to DOUBLE Bergeron's best season - in freaking 2005-06.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Klingberg has more production, is tied for lead in points on his team as opposed to being 23 points behind and gets more ice time. I don't see how you manage to equate these two so far this season. Klingberg is a top 5 contender for the award right now in my book, but I don't think he'd be top 3.

As for Hedman, there's things playing against him. He has solid offensive production, but put in perspective and the fact he's on an offensive powerhouse, his numbers aren't quite as meaningful. I don't see why you'd think he should be head and shoulder above everyone. Statistically, that's just not the case.

You can't get Norris consideration playing as little as Ghost, and not playing on the PK at all doesn't help either. That's just the way it is. If you want to argue he's more two-way than offensive specialist, his usage will have to reflect that. Maybe it's the coach's fault. In any case, that's just too bad for him because it'll take him out of the discussion, unless he does something crazy in the upcoming 20 something games.

If your argument is minute usage and PK I can understand that. Not production, ghost has better p/60 and there PPG is .03 difference with Ghost having significantly more goals

 

[Lebowski]

If your argument is minute usage and PK I can understand that. Not production, ghost has better p/60 and there PPG is .03 difference with Ghost having significantly more goals

Minute usage is only part of it. I don't like the P/60 argument when Ghost's usage is clearly tailored around offense on a team with Giroux (72), Voracek (68) and Couturier (61) that are all substantially ahead of him in production. As much as Ghost can be part of the reason these guys are doing as well as they're doing, it also indicates that he's leaching off of them in offensive production, which is only natural. Same goes for Hedman who's 7th in team scoring right now.

As I said before, I value the fact Klingberg is currently tied for team lead in points far more than the P/60 difference.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I wonder how many of these Flyer fans think that Pierre-Marc Bouchard should have won a Norris or two in his career?

Did you mean to say Marc-Andre Bergeron?

 

[TOGuy14]

Did you mean to say Marc-Andre Bergeron?

Yes, wasn't thinking when I wrote that.

Or a Sheldon Souray type player (though he was more of a heavy shot OFF D than a finesse guy)

 

[Jray42]

I wonder how many of these Flyer fans think that Pierre-Marc Bouchard should have won a Norris or two in his career?

The former winger for the Wild? I wonder how many people thought he was a defenseman.

My guess? 1 person.

It's all good though haha

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Okay, agree fully.. but change Karlsson to Klingberg. Karlssons game In his own zone, like Ghosts has gotten a lot better.

Ghost isn't as good as Doughty, Suter, Hedman, Josi or Pie but I absolutely put him at least even with Vlasic and Lindholm overall.. something I wouldn't have claimed back In November. It can't be over expressed how beast-like he's been in all facets

makes sense, however id have to politely disagree about Karlsson
last year he played good defensively thanks to Guy Boucher's system, this season i find he was a bit of a mess

and totally agree about Klingberg (he's this year's ''many points = good D'')

but i've seen this guy crash into his defense partner already three times in his career (and ive watched probably 20 stars games over the past two years) that's a lot!! lol

 

[mja]

Trolling I see considering Klingberg actually is probably the best in the league at it. Does it several times every game. I never noticed Gostisbehere's "moves" near as much. Klingberg built a career doing these, it's literally what he's best at.

I don't know how you watch Ghost and don't notice the "moves". He has a patented Iversonesque crossover move he uses at least once a game and still make my jaw drop every time he does it, because it's usually right on the blue line with a defender in his face.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Trolling I see considering Klingberg actually is probably the best in the league at it. Does it several times every game. I never noticed Gostisbehere's "moves" near as much. Klingberg built a career doing these, it's literally what he's best at.

The Klingberg exaggerations need to stop.