Is every other team more disciplined, is it a ref bias, or what is it?

ShouldveDraftedFiala

Registered User
Feb 20, 2007
1,964
220
I counted 6 penalties committed on the Sedins vs the Devils. And not just anything but legit penalties that are typically called.

I actually don't mind not getting calls that game. We looked tired and didn't dominate the game like we have for the majority of our games. We weren't getting a ton of shots either, more like we were just hanging on for the 1 point. But to give us a PP with 12 secs left was a slap in the face. I just don't understand how the Sedins aren't drawing more penalties for the games we've been clearly dominating.
 

ShouldveDraftedFiala

Registered User
Feb 20, 2007
1,964
220
There's a lot of factors at work I think. Firstly, we were in direct competiton with the most vocal, intense fanbases out there and the media fed them controversy like it was Monday Night Raw. The Canucks became a top team and other Canadian markets went blind with jealousy. Their jealousy turned to anger and hatred and the media fed it to them, because that's their job. Then you throw in the big American markets like LA, Chicago, and Boston that became adversaries. Once the big markets decide to hate a team, the rest of the league will follow suit and so will their respective media. So every dive, every comment, every extra shot was scrutinized, twisted and sensationalized by the big markets and therefore all NHL markets. We had Oiler fans spending hours of their life creating videos of Canuck dives, in fact there's no other team that has diving videos made just for them as far as I have seen. Calgary Puck became a breeding ground for physcotics. I honestly know Oiler and Flame fans that would rather see the Canucks lose then have their own team win. That's infatuation. These big market teams became infatuated with hating the Canucks. That was what hockey was to them as their own teams meddled about and the Canucks rose to the top of the NHL. I spend time in Alberta for work and it's all over the radio, it's all over the cities, and it's all people talk about when it comes to hockey. It wasn't about their own teams, it was about the Canucks and their fans suffering.

Now with Tortarella's comments, we see that it didn't just spread to the fans of the sport, it spread right to the top of the NHL. The perception became that the Canucks dove and whined (they were guilty of both, but no where near to the extent it was made out to be) and combined with the Auger incident, the Canucks are not the refs favourite team. Then you add in the heated series with Boston, who just happen to be owned by probably the most powerful man in hockey. Bettman, Shanahan and most of the league answer to these BOG owners beleive me. None moreso than Jacobs. Once Jacobs was against us, we were hooped. And we're still feeling the after effects of our hooping.

Whether it's fair or not (it's not) the Canucks have been marked as the team to hate and it's going to take some time for that label to wear off. The good news is I beleive it will, and I beleive Tortarella feels the same. They're being retroactively punished for old bad habits and over-zealous Canuck haters. By asking for a clean slate like this, Tortarella is saying there is a problem here, we're not that team anymore, let's all move forward. Hopefully it works.

Great post btw. I think you're bang on.
 

Jarko2004

Registered User
Sep 15, 2004
1,024
18
Vancouver Island
There's a lot of factors at work I think. Firstly, we were in direct competiton with the most vocal, intense fanbases out there and the media fed them controversy like it was Monday Night Raw. The Canucks became a top team and other Canadian markets went blind with jealousy. Their jealousy turned to anger and hatred and the media fed it to them, because that's their job. Then you throw in the big American markets like LA, Chicago, and Boston that became adversaries. Once the big markets decide to hate a team, the rest of the league will follow suit and so will their respective media. So every dive, every comment, every extra shot was scrutinized, twisted and sensationalized by the big markets and therefore all NHL markets. We had Oiler fans spending hours of their life creating videos of Canuck dives, in fact there's no other team that has diving videos made just for them as far as I have seen. Calgary Puck became a breeding ground for physcotics. I honestly know Oiler and Flame fans that would rather see the Canucks lose then have their own team win. That's infatuation. These big market teams became infatuated with hating the Canucks. That was what hockey was to them as their own teams meddled about and the Canucks rose to the top of the NHL. I spend time in Alberta for work and it's all over the radio, it's all over the cities, and it's all people talk about when it comes to hockey. It wasn't about their own teams, it was about the Canucks and their fans suffering.

Now with Tortarella's comments, we see that it didn't just spread to the fans of the sport, it spread right to the top of the NHL. The perception became that the Canucks dove and whined (they were guilty of both, but no where near to the extent it was made out to be) and combined with the Auger incident, the Canucks are not the refs favourite team. Then you add in the heated series with Boston, who just happen to be owned by probably the most powerful man in hockey. Bettman, Shanahan and most of the league answer to these BOG owners beleive me. None moreso than Jacobs. Once Jacobs was against us, we were hooped. And we're still feeling the after effects of our hooping.

Whether it's fair or not (it's not) the Canucks have been marked as the team to hate and it's going to take some time for that label to wear off. The good news is I beleive it will, and I beleive Tortarella feels the same. They're being retroactively punished for old bad habits and over-zealous Canuck haters. By asking for a clean slate like this, Tortarella is saying there is a problem here, we're not that team anymore, let's all move forward. Hopefully it works.


I'm am sorry, but if Aquilini allows this happen, then he is in fact in collusion with Jacobson/Bettman. Let's all move forward?? Why should we? Why should a Canuck follower spend a dime or invest any time in a product that you've just explained is crooked. I'm glad you're contented with being "hooped". A typical western Canadian inferiority complex I guess.
 

J Canuck

Registered User
Mar 19, 2013
500
6
the couch
Whether it's fair or not (it's not) the Canucks have been marked as the team to hate and it's going to take some time for that label to wear off. The good news is I beleive it will, and I beleive Tortarella feels the same. They're being retroactively punished for old bad habits and over-zealous Canuck haters. By asking for a clean slate like this, Tortarella is saying there is a problem here, we're not that team anymore, let's all move forward. Hopefully it works.


I think to some extent, we've been marketed that way. It will only wear off when it becomes a hard sell and it will only become a hard sell if we continue to play honestly. Other teams and players have already begun assuming the mantle. It's pretty easy to hate the Sharks, except that nobody will really notice until the playoffs and then only if they're playing one of the big market teams.
 

ShouldveDraftedFiala

Registered User
Feb 20, 2007
1,964
220
I'm am sorry, but if Aquilini allows this happen, then he is in fact in collusion with Jacobson/Bettman. Let's all move forward?? Why should we? Why should a Canuck follower spend a dime or invest any time in a product that you've just explained is crooked. I'm glad you're contented with being "hooped". A typical western Canadian inferiority complex I guess.

lol ya how did Aquilini allow other teams to become jealous of us? How did he allow CBC to smear the Canucks as divers and whiners every chance they got? How did he allow McLean to embarrass Burrows during the Auger incident? Etc, etc.

What are you talking about? I don't think you actually know what you just typed out. Drivel. :shakehead
 

Jarko2004

Registered User
Sep 15, 2004
1,024
18
Vancouver Island
What are you talking? We're discussing referee bias. Who cares about public perception? The refs are paid to do a job and apply a rulebook. The League officials work for Aquilini. Gary Bettman works for Aquilini. If it's my investment, I want to be treated equally or I'm getting screwed. The fact that he does and says means nothing means he is on-board with the Jacobson agenda as long as the money is coming in. Enjoy your playoff disappointments. I will be shocked to see a Canadian city will a Cup ever again.
 

Robongo01

Registered User
May 13, 2013
853
99
Vancouver
BS articles like this are why we don't get any calls:

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2013/1...elsen-headshot-on-kesler-because-kesler-dove/

Past reps are ingrained in people's minds and now the Canucks are being punished for it.

He certainly embellished but it wasn't nearly as bad as the article implies. As others have alluded before me, a lot of other teams are far worse than we are and they get absolutely no flack for it. I mean look at the sharks they lead the league in pp/pg and they do more selling than fast food in Texas.
 

PhilMick

Formerly PRNuck
May 20, 2009
10,817
364
Calgary
He certainly embellished but it wasn't nearly as bad as the article implies. As others have alluded before me, a lot of other teams are far worse than we are and they get absolutely no flack for it. I mean look at the sharks they lead the league in pp/pg and they do more selling than fast food in Texas.

Hayoooo! :laugh:
 

sk8er

Registered User
Nov 8, 2008
374
5
Actually it looked to me like he whacked his chin on the boards that are just the right height for that.
 

russiancanucksfan*

Guest
Refs across the whole league suck, trust me it's the same for every team. Every team has the some complaints about discipline and inconsistencies with penalties.

same, not some :P
 

triplets

Registered User
Aug 25, 2006
58
1
Beautiful BC
Red Sox just lost to St. Louis on a controversial play. While the obstruction was unintentional, it rightly was called, directly affecting the results of the game. The NHL feels it should not influence the outcome of the game, so probably would not have made a similar call. Furthermore, a big money team came out on the wrong end of this decision. What are the odds of the NHL making such a call against Boston, Chicago, or lately, San Jose.

Even the MLB appears to have a more just and fair officiating than the NHL.:(:(
 

SillyRabbit

Trix Are For Kids
Jan 3, 2006
7,969
6,942
Of the top 30 scorers in the NHL right now, the Sedins are #1 and #3 in PIM.

Corey Perry is #2.

Daniel and Henrik should really stop gooning it up. Maybe they should try a puck possession game that draws penalties, rather than taking so many penalties themselves.

Daniel especially, the guy got a 10 minute misconduct for heaven's sake!
 

member 202355

Guest
It's biased referees. Nobody, besides Canucks fans, actually like the Canucks.
 

WantonAbandon

Registered User
Oct 16, 2011
5,462
0
Eventually you have to accept the hypothesis with the least assumptions. And a conspiracy theory isn't it...
 

Drop the Sopel

Registered User
May 4, 2007
18,325
59
calgary
It's AV refusing to hold players accountable for a lack of discipline. Good special teams also skew the numbers as it's a tabulation of total minutes, not number of calls. If your PP scores a lot you accumulate much fewer minutes - if you kill penalties well you rack up many more...

I suspect by next season we see Canuck minor penalties down significantly from what they were under Vigneault. It will just take time to change the bad habits instilled in this group.

A breakdown of what type of penalties the Canucks receive compared to the field would be more telling. That's where bias may be easier to detect...
 

Karl Hungus

Registered User
Oct 6, 2007
2,470
0
BS articles like this are why we don't get any calls:

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2013/1...elsen-headshot-on-kesler-because-kesler-dove/

Past reps are ingrained in people's minds and now the Canucks are being punished for it.

That reminds me of something I would have read out of Boston or Chicago during the playoffs. I have to say that our own media sure loves to cut the team down. During the playoffs they're practically the "night shift" who come in and rip the team after our opponents are finished. They are definitely a liability to the team and are probably the main factor in our fan base being unable to get over the traumatic 70s and 80s.
 

The Overseer*

Guest
The following are not penalties:

ibzJFZ0arp9LO2.gif


ibp0qJWh18SclV.gif




What is so difficult to understand?
 

baxtefer

Registered User
Aug 8, 2012
209
1
The following are not penalties:

ibzJFZ0arp9LO2.gif


What is so difficult to understand?

I fail to see how this is any different than Kassian's "slash" on Gagner that got him an 8 game suspension.

Odds on Zetterberg getting the same punishment?
yeah... didn't think so
 

PG Canuck

Registered User
Mar 29, 2010
62,954
24,117
I fail to see how this is any different than Kassian's "slash" on Gagner that got him an 8 game suspension.

Odds on Zetterberg getting the same punishment?
yeah... didn't think so

Did it break Hamhuis' jaw? There's your non suspension answer.
 

baxtefer

Registered User
Aug 8, 2012
209
1
Did it break Hamhuis' jaw? There's your non suspension answer.

Again where basing the punishment largely on the outcome rather than the intent is stupid. 8 games just for an injury (albeit a significant one) is pathetic.

James Neal at least got a $2500 fine for this high stick which Subban barely noticed

soupcanslew.gif


So Zetterberg should get something in between a fine and an 8 game suspension.
But we all know he'll get off scot-free
 

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