Is every other team more disciplined, is it a ref bias, or what is it?

PhilMick

Formerly PRNuck
May 20, 2009
10,817
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Calgary
ok, i did it myself
hope this table is legible, but looking at NHL stats -- mind you this is only through 10 games, but I looked at the ratio of shots for to shots against and the ratio for PPs for to PPs against ... ranked both and sorted by the rank differential, and came up with this --
<snip>

**** you NHL!

Thanks for putting that together, good read.
 

Dana Murzyn

Registered User
Oct 5, 2005
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It is not debatable that the refereeing is unfair against us. I have even done scientific (empirical) experiments to test this, as to remove potential personal bias. The results were shocking.

Is this one of those if-you-share-it-you'll-have-to-kill-us situations? Or are you just waiting for the peer reviews to come in?
 

NYVanfan

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Mar 27, 2002
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Obviously we need to start diving more :sarcasm:

annoying as hell last night to see the isles bench all up in arms about kesler getting elbowed (shouldered, whatever) in the head, yet the apalling dive from whoever that was Henrik blew on was completely ignored

another thing -- man, im sick of having to watch these non-Shorty US opposition feeds on Center Ice .. every one of these guys are constantly mispronouncing names (Hendrik, Bieska, Hamhouse -- I even heard Edler last night -- the Pittsburgh guy spent the entire game calling Santorelli Schroeder (didn't seem to notice that as one guy he was probably playing 35 minutes)

anyway.. rant over/
 

Kickassguy

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Sep 24, 2002
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annoying as hell last night to see the isles bench all up in arms about kesler getting elbowed (shouldered, whatever) in the head, yet the apalling dive from whoever that was Henrik blew on was completely ignored

another thing -- man, im sick of having to watch these non-Shorty US opposition feeds on Center Ice .. every one of these guys are constantly mispronouncing names (Hendrik, Bieska, Hamhouse -- I even heard Edler last night -- the Pittsburgh guy spent the entire game calling Santorelli Schroeder (didn't seem to notice that as one guy he was probably playing 35 minutes)

anyway.. rant over/

I got GameCenter Live here in NY and the ability to switch between Home and Visitor feeds is a freaking godsend. I highly recommend it.
 

Jarko2004

Registered User
Sep 15, 2004
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This has gone on for years. When the Canucks play another Canadian team (usually Calgary, Edmonton), they will suddenly get a PP advantage because the NHL doesn't care about those teams either.

Gillis can't say anything about it, like he did in the Chicago series in 2012, because they will just laugh at him and fine him. The only person they have to listen to is the team owner. The fact that he does nothing about it kind of proves the conspiracy. He's happy to rake in the money from suckers whose team will never be allowed to succeed and is onboard with growing the league in the US as the #1 priority.
 

Grumbler

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Oct 25, 2012
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This probably all started with the Stephan Auger incident and him being fired.
 

DCantheDDad

DisplacedNuckfan
Jul 1, 2013
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Call me crazy, but why cant the NHL have a relatively standardized system of calling penalties? Every other professional sport does. If it is a penalty for the Canucks in the first period of the preseason, it should be a freakin penalty for Tampa Bay in overtime of a SCF Game 7. If there was consistency and no perception of the make up call (really, the league still allows this to happen?) the game would be better to watch and attract new fans.
 

NYVanfan

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Mar 27, 2002
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I got GameCenter Live here in NY and the ability to switch between Home and Visitor feeds is a freaking godsend. I highly recommend it.

i have it too, but prefer to watch on the big screen
though i recently got a google chromecast ..might try that
thanks
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
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Surrey, BC
Call me crazy, but why cant the NHL have a relatively standardized system of calling penalties? Every other professional sport does. If it is a penalty for the Canucks in the first period of the preseason, it should be a freakin penalty for Tampa Bay in overtime of a SCF Game 7. If there was consistency and no perception of the make up call (really, the league still allows this to happen?) the game would be better to watch and attract new fans.

Every sport is facing these issues. What's pass interference in one NFL game will not be in another. Same with the CFL. What one ump considers a strike, another considers a ball. And don't get me started on NBA officials.

There is simply no conspiracy against Vancouver.
 

Jyrki

Benning has been purged! VANmen!
May 24, 2011
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IMHO, the Sedins get absolutely no breaks from the refs. 50/50 plays always seem to go against them. Even Kesler still gets calls on his tumbles.
 

Kickassguy

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Sep 24, 2002
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i have it too, but prefer to watch on the big screen
though i recently got a google chromecast ..might try that
thanks

Further alternatives... if you have an Xbox or a PS3, you can run GameCenter on your TV from them. :)

Or you could just get an HDMI cable for your computer and hook it up to your TV during games.
 

Dana Murzyn

Registered User
Oct 5, 2005
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There is simply no conspiracy against Vancouver.

I agree. No conspiracy whatsoever.

But officials do have personal biases. Mostly they overcome them and do their job professionally, but on occasion, inevitably, they're influenced by them. And if considerably more of the officials were personally biased against the Canucks than for them, due to reputation, style of play, nationality -- or simply due to chance -- well, it might look like what we're currently seeing.

I don't know. I hate complaining about officials. But something does seem slightly out of whack.
 

Lawzy

Registered User
May 27, 2011
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This is kind of long, but I have some thoughts on the issue.


There's something called the just world hypothesis. It states that it is a natural inclination for humans to justify anything that happens as fair. For example, in an experiment, they showed a group of people a picture (a headshot) of a man. They told the group that this man was found guilty in a court. The group of people gave words to describe the man in the picture, saying he looked "mean", "aggressive", "untrustworthy", etc. They showed the exact same picture to a second group of people, but this time, they told the group that the man was found innocent in a court. This second group of people described the man as "caring", "gentle" etc.

What we know is that people will justify anything that happens, especially when a source of power is the one handing out the decision. I notice people doing this all the time, and I can see this happening in this thread a little bit. We want to believe that things are fair. But sometimes, (and likely frequently), things just are not fair.

It is not debatable that the refereeing is unfair against us. I have even done scientific (empirical) experiments to test this, as to remove potential personal bias. The results were shocking.

The only question is this: is it a coincidence or is there some kind of agenda against the team? I think to some extent is is just a coincidence, taking the form of incompetence in refereeing. However, when you see such a large, continuous discrepancy in the refereeing and decisions, you have to look for patterns and explanations.



So why could there be a bias against us? There are 2 obvious answers in my view.

#1 Systemic: Hockey is a business, a business is about making money. Polls have shown that the Canucks are the most disliked team, you can also observe this while listening to pretty much any media source. So if the Canucks have a harder time in a game, or lose the game, more people will be happy, and more money will be generated. (Furthermore, there is never any fear of losing the Canucks fanbase because they will never stop supporting the team - even if they desperately want to.)

#2 Personal: It's fairly well known what type of personality Mike Gillis has, and it's widely speculated that he rubs some people the wrong way. Knowing his stubbornness and arrogance, it's not hard to imagine him clashing with anyone from an individual referee to Ron Maclean to Gary Bettman.


Whatever the explanation, we are not being treated fairly by the officiating (or supplemental discipline btw - Dirty Duncan Keith is laughing at Edler's 5 game suspension)

Show us your findings. What I see from NYvanfan suggests a minimal bias if any at all.

I'd like to see what stats you find to be appalling. I'll happily eat crow.
 

J Canuck

Registered User
Mar 19, 2013
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I think a lot of it is perception bias. We're more sensitive to the bad officiating that affects us than when it affects other teams. Besides that, the fast teams draw more penalties because of the other team trying to slow them down, and we're not a fast team, we're a possession and passing team. I think the biggest issue though, is that officiating is pretty bad for the most part, they're not conspiring to be incompetent, it comes naturally.

I'd like to see some leadership among officials. I'd like to know for sure that there is a boss that evaluates their games, discusses performance and tries to improve their game or benches an official that isn't up to standard. I'd also like to have some mechanism for addressing calls that doesn't involve the team calling out a ref after a game. The media should be able to ask the on-ice Official's off-ice representative to explain calls and non-calls. Nobody is allowed to call out a ref, but the viewing public deserves to have an explanation much of the time.

Kelly Sutherland reffed a Canucks game this year, nobody noticed. He also explained his call on Danny from last game 4, didn't have to, but I appreciate that he did. He's still my least favourite ref.

I don't buy any conspiracy theory. The way refs discuss players and reputations before games (Kerry Fraser mentions this often in his Hey Ref column) comes kind of close though.
 

DCantheDDad

DisplacedNuckfan
Jul 1, 2013
2,934
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Edmonton
Every sport is facing these issues. What's pass interference in one NFL game will not be in another. Same with the CFL. What one ump considers a strike, another considers a ball. And don't get me started on NBA officials.

There is simply no conspiracy against Vancouver.

I didn't call it a conspiracy against Vancouver. The complete lack of standard goes for all teams. When announcers applaud the officials during the playoffs for "putting away the whistles" I get frustrated. That is the wrong message to be sending.

I will agree with you that other leagues do have issues; that is human nature. My issue is, in the NHL, it goes beyond normal human tolerance to active disregard for the rulebook, depending on what period of the game it is. Until they write in the rulebook that in Period 3, with less than 10 min left, a blantant hook will not be called, I will be frustrated.
 

ShouldveDraftedFiala

Registered User
Feb 20, 2007
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Every sport is facing these issues. What's pass interference in one NFL game will not be in another. Same with the CFL. What one ump considers a strike, another considers a ball. And don't get me started on NBA officials.

There is simply no conspiracy against Vancouver.

Continuing to ignore the facts. Auger. Boston Series. Lack of calls for Sedins. Lowest PPPG. Back to sleep you go.

Oh and lets not forget this...

 
Last edited:

604

Registered User
Nov 1, 2011
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We got a veteran NHL referee fired by complaining to the media about them. I am going to assume that doesn't sit well with most of the refs in the NHL.

Snitches get stitches.
 

Free Edler

Enjoy retirement, boys.
Feb 27, 2002
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IMHO, the Sedins get absolutely no breaks from the refs. 50/50 plays always seem to go against them. Even Kesler still gets calls on his tumbles.
Sedins take more abuse than any players in the NHL from opponents. I've never seen two guys get thrashed around like those two.
 

LiveeviL

No unique points
Jan 5, 2009
7,106
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Hired by the Bruins?

No no the secret already employed Bruins Ombudsman, he could get fired.


More like a real ombudsman, a high profile ex.player with a small staff could do actual case studies of reffing which will reach the brass at the end and they will be forced to listen and act.
 

NYVanfan

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Mar 27, 2002
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Continuing to ignore the facts. Auger. Boston Series. Lack of calls for Sedins. Lowest PPPG. Back to sleep you go.

Oh and lets not forget this...



had not seen that before ...
what an appalling load of ****ing ******** that is

and then I think of the call on Daniel that put us out vs SJ.

infuriating.

while i believe you have to make your own luck, and teams should be able to rise above these things ...the margins btw winning and losing are so thin ..it's just ... infuriating
 

prophetofgreed

Registered User
Sep 12, 2012
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I looked into some stats. Currently the Canucks have the least PP/game at 2.6.

They're also 8th in the league in Corsi %, the teams ahead of them in order.

1. Wild
2. Sharks
3. Blackhawks
4. Kings
5. Bruins
6. New Jersey
7. Canadians

Now remember corsi is based off possession and shot attempts. A PP really boosts corsi since you get the opportunity to control the puck in the offensive zone and take shots.

Now back to PP for each of these teams based off PP %

1. Wild (4 PP/game)
2. Sharks (5.2 PP/game)
3. Blackhawks (3.6 PP/game)
4. Kings (3.5 PP/game)
5. Bruins (3.7 PP/game)
6. Devils (3.3 PP/game)
7. Canadians (4.1 PP/game)

Most teams get an average of 3.5 PP/game, the Canucks have one less than that while still putting up great possession #s. Hard to argue against a bias.
 

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