Is Erik Karlsson still a top 5-10 dman?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by TheJackAttack, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. JoeThorntonsRooster

    JoeThorntonsRooster Brent Burns was a Ted Lindsay Finalist

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    Who was debatably better over the entire 5 year period of 2011-2012 to 2016-2017?

    I am not saying there was never a second where he wasn’t the best, but over that entire frame, he definitely was.
     
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  2. jetsforever

    jetsforever Registered User

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    For sure
     
  3. filinski77

    filinski77 Registered User

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    You're definitely right.

    In that 6 year period, his Norris finishes were 1/7/1/2/2 (one of the years he was injured), he was first in points with 385 in that span (burns had 316), lead in points/gp, 2nd highest TOI/gp (only behind Suter)
     
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  4. ReginKarlssonLehner

    ReginKarlssonLehner Let's Win It All

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    System player when he was best D in WJC, put up unfrikingreal playoffs and was best player in Olympics.
     
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  5. DanM

    DanM Registered User

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    I respect all opinions.... but I am still stuck on this lol

    And I would not compare Dahlin just yet, give the kid more time.
     
  6. psycat

    psycat Registered User

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    Yes but he needs to get back on track sooner rather than later to maintain that position, which in itself is a poor rank for his standards.
     
  7. DanM

    DanM Registered User

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    And nobody will ever have it but Orr lol

    Lidstrom comes a tad close relative to his peers, but Orr was revolutionary.
     
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  8. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Crawlin W/Dahlin

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    I already explained myself plenty of times in my post with “if ek keeps playing like this”

    And NO. Dahlin is an 18 yr old kid playing the toughest position to transition into (look at ek and Hedman themselves) and isn’t even used to this ice joining a team that isn’t great definitively. Your comparing there points, the fact it’s even close at all when EK is in his prime or just after it is ridiculous for dahlin. Nice way of judging him though by looking at those two things. I was talking about going forward. Plus pretty sure Karlsson has better d partners in San Jose then Zachary bogosian.

    My post didn’t even bash Karlsson and I was very careful in my post with my wording to give people no idea I said such a thing I sId if he plays like this....but the defensive garbage replies like this make me want to change my mind.
     
  9. Neutrinos

    Neutrinos Registered User

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    I'd argue Pronger was better than Lidstrom
     
  10. DanM

    DanM Registered User

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    Hmmmm.... I do love Pronger, and his peak was unreal. I can see the case in some ways, but I would still give the nod to Lids, he just controlled so much of the game, he was almost always perfect. Plus those Norris wins, and finishes.

    Pronger right up there though, nobody like him in the league right now.
     
  11. Phu

    Phu Registered User

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    Said it a hundred times, better linemates do not necessarily translate into better counting stats.
     
  12. DanM

    DanM Registered User

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    Not going to get into the post, everyone has an opinion, and that is great.

    I will say this, with those injuries, I feel EK is for sure out of his prime. However, him past his prime, is still quite amazing.

    Plus he just left the only team he has ever known.
     
  13. BaileyMacTavish

    BaileyMacTavish Fire DeBoer. Fire DeBoer. Fire DeBoer. Fire DeBoer

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    Yes. Yes I think he is. He's affecting play positively and the rumors of his defensive ability are exagerated. He doesn't have to be the top guy anymore.
     
  14. RorschachWJK

    RorschachWJK Registered User

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    If he had 5 Norris trophies in a row AND did not have glaring flaws in his defensive game, then we'd have a discussion. As it is, there is nothing to discuss. Look up the definition for the word "unquestionable".
     
  15. JoeThorntonsRooster

    JoeThorntonsRooster Brent Burns was a Ted Lindsay Finalist

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    I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt but as soon as you brought up Dahlin, it became pretty clear what your agenda was.
     
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  16. Garl

    Garl Registered User

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    Umm, he played in Ottawa for many years and many coaches. Besides, he always dominated at international competition like Olympics and World Cup.
     
  17. Mattb124

    Mattb124 Registered User

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    I missed the memo that the NHL shortened the season to 29 games.
     
  18. Mattb124

    Mattb124 Registered User

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    Which defenseman was better during that period?
     
  19. Seiza

    Seiza Registered User

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    I think it's the mustache that's the problem, he has to get rid of it.
     
  20. Mulletman

    Mulletman Registered User

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    The Sharks as a whole have been absolute garbage so far this year. 27 goals behind Tampa for the League lead already.

    Sure Karlsson and Thornton are probably the biggest reasons for that. But Burns haven't been scoring those goals either. Logan Cotoure has been playing below his goal scoring level as well. Hertl hasn't been able to break out yet like many predicted. None of the grinders have had a positive impact either. And it seems like Evander Kane fans were right when they said he was going to mail it in after he got his big Money deal. 3 goals in his last 25 games... Jesus... :(
     
  21. MrCraigAnderson

    MrCraigAnderson Boucher Jr

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    I'm glad another fan base gets the opportunity to see this. I definitely get how a casual fan could watch him and say he isn't good defensively, he takes risks and occasionally gets burnt. With that said his impact away from the puck is tremendous. At times I've accused him of not putting enough effort in the defensive side and being too focused on the offensive side, he has gotten better in finding a balance with experience but when you put him in a position where he is focused on defending he can be one of the best. His best asset is his mind and when he wants to be he can be one of the best defenders in the game.

    I think the 2017 playoff run from Ottawa was eye opening for a lot of people into how good he really is, but it really shouldn't have been. That entire season (Oct to May) was easily his best on both sides of the puck and i felt like it was breakthrough in regards to how consistent he was defensively but the ability was always there.
     
  22. Maple Leafs

    Maple Leafs Toronto

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    Yes, he is
     
  23. RorschachWJK

    RorschachWJK Registered User

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    I did not talk about that at all. I made my initial comment in reference to Bobby Orr, who is the only dman to have been unquestionably the best in the game for such a period of years. Everyone else falls way short of that. Also, for every other defender outside Orr, there are a few dmen each year that are close, thus, their status is debatable. Thus, they are NOT unquestionably best.

    The other point was a to highlight how idiotic it is to carelessly use words and expressions like "unquestionably", as in this thread, or "easily best all time", "AINEC" etc. that are constantly seen used elsewhere here.
     
  24. 93LEAFS

    93LEAFS Registered User

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    This is ancient but Eddie Shore easily was the best player in the game for half a decade (won 4 Harts in 5 years). Bourque, Harvey, and Lidstrom have very strong cases for being the best D-man in the league for a half decade or more.
     
  25. RorschachWJK

    RorschachWJK Registered User

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    Perhaps Shore counts but I would still be in favor of Orr being in his own tier. Karlsson would need to first reach Shore's level of domination against his peers, and his level of playing defense. He has not reached either, and isn't close to reaching the other three guys. The other three were dominant, yes, but still there were guys who were very close to them most years, hence not really "unquestionably best".
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018

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