Is Erik Karlsson still a top 5-10 dman?

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Sorry but unquestionably no. Absolutely nobody has had that distinction since Bobby Orr.

Who was debatably better over the entire 5 year period of 2011-2012 to 2016-2017?

I am not saying there was never a second where he wasn’t the best, but over that entire frame, he definitely was.

 

[jetsforever]

For sure

 

[filinski77]

Who was debatably better over the entire 5 year period of 2011-2012 to 2016-2017?

I am not saying there was never a second where he wasn’t the best, but over that entire frame, he definitely was.

You're definitely right.

In that 6 year period, his Norris finishes were 1/7/1/2/2 (one of the years he was injured), he was first in points with 385 in that span (burns had 316), lead in points/gp, 2nd highest TOI/gp (only behind Suter)

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

System player?

Leaves Ottawa, gets worse

Chabot steps into his spot, Burns down villages

Makes u think

System player when he was best D in WJC, put up unfrikingreal playoffs and was best player in Olympics.

 

[DanM]

I’m not the one saying he’s not, I’m the one asking others what there opinion is.

I think he still can be the best in the game.

But if I tried? MAybe? Arguably one of these...


Hedman
Jones
Doughty (see petriangelo but maybe still)
Dahlin (for now and future)
Josi
Burns
PK
Carlsson
Krug
Petriangelo (not so much this year)


There are lots more who are arguable but if this is how he plays the test of his career I could name some more.


However if he gets his game back then no, maybe only to three of those guys would I pick for now and the future (probably dahlin and Hedman) and maybe one of doughty/Josi/Jones

But I wanted to know what others thought...

I respect all opinions.... but I am still stuck on this lol

And I would not compare Dahlin just yet, give the kid more time.

 

[psycat]

Yes but he needs to get back on track sooner rather than later to maintain that position, which in itself is a poor rank for his standards.

 

[DanM]

Sorry but unquestionably no. Absolutely nobody has had that distinction since Bobby Orr.

And nobody will ever have it but Orr lol

Lidstrom comes a tad close relative to his peers, but Orr was revolutionary.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

So Doughty and Petriangelo having down years but that's ok against Karlsson having a down year? (Btw Doughty with 51 Giveaways but 7 takeaways? Ouch)

Also Dahlin has not been better than Karlsson this season. Dahlin has less points per game despite shooting at a percentage twice of Karlsson's.
Karlsson is also rated at 58.46% Corsi (putting him 5th in the league) compared to 49.50% for Dahlin.
Karlsson has 31 takeaways, putting him equal third in the league (Dahlin has 8 putting him at 81st).
Dahlin has 5:00 on the PK compared to Karlsson's 52 minutes (he is also listed as second on SH takeaways, so he is a pretty effective PK).

The narrative that he is having a poor season is overblown, as is the narrative that he is awful defensively.

I already explained myself plenty of times in my post with “if ek keeps playing like this”

And NO. Dahlin is an 18 yr old kid playing the toughest position to transition into (look at ek and Hedman themselves) and isn’t even used to this ice joining a team that isn’t great definitively. Your comparing there points, the fact it’s even close at all when EK is in his prime or just after it is ridiculous for dahlin. Nice way of judging him though by looking at those two things. I was talking about going forward. Plus pretty sure Karlsson has better d partners in San Jose then Zachary bogosian.

My post didn’t even bash Karlsson and I was very careful in my post with my wording to give people no idea I said such a thing I sId if he plays like this....but the defensive garbage replies like this make me want to change my mind.

 

[Neutrinos]

And nobody will ever have it but Orr lol

Lidstrom comes a tad close relative to his peers, but Orr was revolutionary.

I'd argue Pronger was better than Lidstrom

 

[DanM]

I'd argue Pronger was better than Lidstrom

Hmmmm.... I do love Pronger, and his peak was unreal. I can see the case in some ways, but I would still give the nod to Lids, he just controlled so much of the game, he was almost always perfect. Plus those Norris wins, and finishes.

Pronger right up there though, nobody like him in the league right now.

 

[Alwalys]

Plus pretty sure Karlsson has better d partners in San Jose then Zachary bogosian.

Said it a hundred times, better linemates do not necessarily translate into better counting stats.

 

[DanM]

I already explained myself plenty of times in my post with “if ek keeps playing like this”

And NO. Dahlin is an 18 yr old kid playing the toughest position to transition into (look at ek and Hedman themselves) and isn’t even used to this ice joining a team that isn’t great definitively. Your comparing there points, the fact it’s even close at all when EK is in his prime or just after it is ridiculous for dahlin. Nice way of judging him though by looking at those two things. I was talking about going forward. Plus pretty sure Karlsson has better d partners in San Jose then Zachary bogosian.

My post didn’t even bash Karlsson and I was very careful in my post with my wording to give people no idea I said such a thing I sId if he plays like this....but the defensive garbage replies like this make me want to change my mind.

Not going to get into the post, everyone has an opinion, and that is great.

I will say this, with those injuries, I feel EK is for sure out of his prime. However, him past his prime, is still quite amazing.

Plus he just left the only team he has ever known.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Yes. Yes I think he is. He's affecting play positively and the rumors of his defensive ability are exagerated. He doesn't have to be the top guy anymore.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Who was debatably better over the entire 5 year period of 2011-2012 to 2016-2017?

I am not saying there was never a second where he wasn’t the best, but over that entire frame, he definitely was.

If he had 5 Norris trophies in a row AND did not have glaring flaws in his defensive game, then we'd have a discussion. As it is, there is nothing to discuss. Look up the definition for the word "unquestionable".

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I already explained myself plenty of times in my post with “if ek keeps playing like this”

And NO. Dahlin is an 18 yr old kid playing the toughest position to transition into (look at ek and Hedman themselves) and isn’t even used to this ice joining a team that isn’t great definitively. Your comparing there points, the fact it’s even close at all when EK is in his prime or just after it is ridiculous for dahlin. Nice way of judging him though by looking at those two things. I was talking about going forward. Plus pretty sure Karlsson has better d partners in San Jose then Zachary bogosian.

My post didn’t even bash Karlsson and I was very careful in my post with my wording to give people no idea I said such a thing I sId if he plays like this....but the defensive garbage replies like this make me want to change my mind.

I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt but as soon as you brought up Dahlin, it became pretty clear what your agenda was.

 

[Garl]

System player?

Leaves Ottawa, gets worse

Chabot steps into his spot, Burns down villages

Makes u think

Umm, he played in Ottawa for many years and many coaches. Besides, he always dominated at international competition like Olympics and World Cup.

 

[Mattb124]

One bad season doesnt erase what he's done. If he sucks next year, too, knocks him out I would say.

I missed the memo that the NHL shortened the season to 29 games.

 

[Mattb124]

If he had 5 Norris trophies in a row AND did not have glaring flaws in his defensive game, then we'd have a discussion. As it is, there is nothing to discuss. Look up the definition for the word "unquestionable".

Which defenseman was better during that period?

 

[Seiza]

I think it's the mustache that's the problem, he has to get rid of it.

 

[Mulletman]

The Sharks as a whole have been absolute garbage so far this year. 27 goals behind Tampa for the League lead already.

Sure Karlsson and Thornton are probably the biggest reasons for that. But Burns haven't been scoring those goals either. Logan Cotoure has been playing below his goal scoring level as well. Hertl hasn't been able to break out yet like many predicted. None of the grinders have had a positive impact either. And it seems like Evander Kane fans were right when they said he was going to mail it in after he got his big Money deal. 3 goals in his last 25 games... Jesus...

 

[Korpse]

Yes. Yes I think he is. He's affecting play positively and the rumors of his defensive ability are exagerated. He doesn't have to be the top guy anymore.

I'm glad another fan base gets the opportunity to see this. I definitely get how a casual fan could watch him and say he isn't good defensively, he takes risks and occasionally gets burnt. With that said his impact away from the puck is tremendous. At times I've accused him of not putting enough effort in the defensive side and being too focused on the offensive side, he has gotten better in finding a balance with experience but when you put him in a position where he is focused on defending he can be one of the best. His best asset is his mind and when he wants to be he can be one of the best defenders in the game.

I think the 2017 playoff run from Ottawa was eye opening for a lot of people into how good he really is, but it really shouldn't have been. That entire season (Oct to May) was easily his best on both sides of the puck and i felt like it was breakthrough in regards to how consistent he was defensively but the ability was always there.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Yes, he is

 

[RorschachWJK]

Which defenseman was better during that period?

I did not talk about that at all. I made my initial comment in reference to Bobby Orr, who is the only dman to have been unquestionably the best in the game for such a period of years. Everyone else falls way short of that. Also, for every other defender outside Orr, there are a few dmen each year that are close, thus, their status is debatable. Thus, they are NOT unquestionably best.

The other point was a to highlight how idiotic it is to carelessly use words and expressions like "unquestionably", as in this thread, or "easily best all time", "AINEC" etc. that are constantly seen used elsewhere here.

 

[93LEAFS]

I did not talk about that at all. I made my initial comment in reference to Bobby Orr, who is the only dman to have been unquestionably the best in the game for such a period of years. Everyone else falls way short of that. Also, for every other defender outside Orr, there are a few dmen each year that are close, thus, their status is debatable. Thus, they are NOT unquestionably best.

The other point was a to highlight how idiotic it is to carelessly use words and expressions like "unquestionably", as in this thread, or "easily best all time", "AINEC" etc. that are constantly seen used elsewhere here.

This is ancient but Eddie Shore easily was the best player in the game for half a decade (won 4 Harts in 5 years). Bourque, Harvey, and Lidstrom have very strong cases for being the best D-man in the league for a half decade or more.

 

[RorschachWJK]

This is ancient but Eddie Shore easily was the best player in the game for half a decade (won 4 Harts in 5 years). Bourque, Harvey, and Lidstrom have very strong cases for being the best D-man in the league for a half decade or more.

Perhaps Shore counts but I would still be in favor of Orr being in his own tier. Karlsson would need to first reach Shore's level of domination against his peers, and his level of playing defense. He has not reached either, and isn't close to reaching the other three guys. The other three were dominant, yes, but still there were guys who were very close to them most years, hence not really "unquestionably best".