Is Detroit Becoming a Small Market Team?

[Stephen]

Well, not really, but is Detroit sliding out of the conversation as one of the biggest market teams in the NHL?

In the early 2000s they seemed to routinely outspend Toronto, the Rangers, Philadelphia, loading up on the cream of the crop of expensive trade deadline and free agency year after year. But in the aftermath of their 2008 cup and 2009 finals appearance, they've lost a lot of Hall of Fame talent, and seem to have stopped going for those high profile Marian Hossa style additions, opting for slow internal development.

Nowadays the Red Wings seem to resemble those responsible small to mid market teams in other sports. It feels like they've settled into a post dynastic fatigue. They seem happy to build exclusively through their farm system and promote an internal program over aggressive name chasing, icing fairly competitive but generally non contending clubs, while occasionally losing members of their championship organization in a brain drain to other organizations (Nill, Yzerman, McLellan maybe Babcock).

What's going on in Detroit? Are they simply in a transitional phase waiting for their young to mature or are they transitioning into more of a budget conscious club appropriate to their market size?

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[Machinehead]

The Rangers and Leafs aren't exactly signing the top free agent every year anymore either. It's the salary cap.

 

[Mach12]

Holland doesn't like spending money on free agents

 

[Stephen]

The Rangers and Leafs aren't exactly signing the top free agent every year anymore either. It's the salary cap.

Sure, but the Rangers are always in the mix for people like Nash, St. Louis, Brad Richards, etc. The Red Wings seem to have taken themselves out of the game altogether since the Marian Hossa trade six years ago.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

They were happy to build through their farm team when they got good anyway. The key components of that team either arrived through their own prospect development made available in trades or were self built. The dream off-season not withstanding and Yzerman's final Cup where the three best players on the team were still Lidstrom, Fedorov and Yzerman( all home grown), the Wings were always predominantly home built.

They are not a small market team. They have remained a cap team, are moving into a new mega stadium and a lot of people expect the Ilitch family to launch their own television network.

Mike Ilitch has splashed 300+ million on two baseball players. Will wind up putting in probably close to 500 million in his own personal wealth in the new stadium. They do everything first class, they don't operate like anything but a big market team and they are one.

The Wings struck out big on Suter, that is the last free agent they pursued with the outright urgency most have come to expect from them... Curse you Parise!!!

 

[Yzerman1919*]

The Rangers and Leafs aren't exactly signing the top free agent every year anymore either. It's the salary cap.

Ummmm. Lindros, Kovalev, Gomez, Drury, Redden, Jagr.

More recent Gaborik, Richards, Nash, St. Louis, Yandle.

The Rags have tried to buy their way to winning the cup for the past 8-12 years.


In terms of the Wings. Ken Holland is the answer. He is totally against overpaying someone a penny. In today's world, good defenseman are going to get paid. He's screwed that up for us big time after losing Lidstrom and Rafalski. The Wings have good young forward depth so that's why that has stayed put. Ken Holland has just gotten older and "safer" is the right way to put it I guess. Content with making the playoffs but not the SCF, so he can say hey, 24 years straight to the city of Detroit and its fans.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Money isn't the issue.

Ken Holland being a garbage GM is the issue.

 

[Jeti]

Detroit is the 9th biggest NHL market by metro population (4.3M) and some of the markets ahead of it are not exactly "hockey markets". You can also add Windsor's metro population to that total so it might even surpass Boston. Outside of Detroit, the area is doing well economically and in population growth. Forbes ranks them 9th in franchise value (though it's all based on estimates).

The free agent market just isn't the same in the cap era. Every year there's a handful of marginal top-6 players that get grossly overpaid in the frenzy. It's rare there's a player that's actually worth breaking the bank for as those players just don't hit free agency anymore.

 

[Helistin]

Holland vs free agent.

 

[ozzie]

Detroit is usually loyal to its own players, signing them to bigger, better long lasting contracts. Free Agents are secondary after locking up the core. The team doesn't panic is usually pretty patient (sometimes to much so) with its own prospects.

Detroit is just in a strange place, basically the team is rebuilding but also competitive. Very few teams can do that. They have potentially 2 star forwards, who they will take care of money wise. Combined with a youth movement at the moment and possible coaching change.

I am struggling to think of the last big Free Agent signing, who wasn't about to retire.

Since 2010 the team has definitely lost a bit of appeal for Free Agents, as the team like I said is in a weird spot at the moment. They can't blow the bank on signings, because they want to lock up the new core.

Having said that, the only free agent they would go big for is an elite defensemen. However they are more likely to pull the Phaneuf deal or make another trade to a good defender, not sure who is available.

But they are never going to be a small market team, they will always spend up near the cap, have that original six allure and winning history. The team is pretty loyal to its players that contribute, once again maybe too loyal to certain players.

I think it's just odd to see how they draft and develop, what they value in players compared to other organizations. They draft based on their puck possession system.

 

[DanZ]

In the cap era, you build through the draft. Detroit has been in the mix for several big name free agents over the years (Parise and Suter come to mind) but were ultimately beaten either by money or other factors. The only point in time when Detroit went bonkers on free agents was when there was no salary cap and that one time Marian Hossa called up Holland at the gas station. Besides that, in the cap era, Detroit has been relatively quiet. It's not a recent thing.

 

[Menzinger]

Free agency seems to be coming less relevant with each season, other than the odd exception(ie the Suter year)

 

[GREASYGRINDERDETROIT]

The Red Wings will never change their ways as long as Ken Holland is GM. There will never be any sort of rebuild, or even so much as the trading of a home-grown roster player. Money or market size is not the issue, the issue is our team being doomed to mediocre oblivion, and management being okay with it.

 

[Claypool]

Well, not really, but is Detroit sliding out of the conversation as one of the biggest market teams in the NHL?

In the early 2000s they seemed to routinely outspend Toronto, the Rangers, Philadelphia, loading up on the cream of the crop of expensive trade deadline and free agency year after year. But in the aftermath of their 2008 cup and 2009 finals appearance, they've lost a lot of Hall of Fame talent, and seem to have stopped going for those high profile Marian Hossa style additions, opting for slow internal development.

Nowadays the Red Wings seem to resemble those responsible small to mid market teams in other sports. It feels like they've settled into a post dynastic fatigue. They seem happy to build exclusively through their farm system and promote an internal program over aggressive name chasing, icing fairly competitive but generally non contending clubs, while occasionally losing members of their championship organization in a brain drain to other organizations (Nill, Yzerman, McLellan maybe Babcock).

What's going on in Detroit? Are they simply in a transitional phase waiting for their young to mature or are they transitioning into more of a budget conscious club appropriate to their market size?

There just aren't many big-named free agents anymore. The way you win in this league now is through smart drafting and development. Also, Detroit is a very stubborn organization in that it would rather home grow its entire team than overpay for average free agents every summer. As for the management departures, they all wanted bigger roles. It happens to every team.

This thread should have been aimed at Pittsburgh since that team has issues attracting free agents and coaches despite having arguably the two best players in the league.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Weise isnt doing it for you?

 

[Kublakhan]

Does it even matter anymore with the Cap,large or small markets,As long as you can fill the seats for most of the games the owners will be happy

 

[WarriorofTime]

The wings are being propped up by Datsyuk and Zetterberg aging so well who turn 37 and 35 before next season. I actually think both have another 5 years left in them so it may turn out but they could really use a top pick or two if they want to get back to being a cup contender. The Nyquist and Tatars of the world are ok but it's very unlikely they'll get a superstar anytime soon.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Detroit was after big name Free Agents in Niskanen, Suter, Parise and anyone you can name


They just get burned because for some reason nobody wants to go. If you add a top 2 dman for this roster, This team = Contender with Dats and Z still here.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

The wings are being propped up by Datsyuk and Zetterberg aging so well who turn 37 and 35 before next season. I actually think both have another 5 years left in them so it may turn out but they could really use a top pick or two if they want to get back to being a cup contender. The Nyquist and Tatars of the world are ok but it's very unlikely they'll get a superstar anytime soon.

Thats ok, Datsyuk was a nobody as a 7th rounder or a sixth, I dont remember how long the draft went then.

 

[JaegerDice]

Ummmm. Lindros, Kovalev, Gomez, Drury, Redden, Jagr.

More recent Gaborik, Richards, Nash, St. Louis, Yandle.

The Rags have tried to buy their way to winning the cup for the past 8-12 years.


In terms of the Wings. Ken Holland is the answer. He is totally against overpaying someone a penny. In today's world, good defenseman are going to get paid. He's screwed that up for us big time after losing Lidstrom and Rafalski. The Wings have good young forward depth so that's why that has stayed put. Ken Holland has just gotten older and "safer" is the right way to put it I guess. Content with making the playoffs but not the SCF, so he can say hey, 24 years straight to the city of Detroit and its fans.

We're talking about the same Ken Holland that signed Stephen Weiss' current contract, right?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

We're talking about the same Ken Holland that signed Stephen Weiss' current contract, right?

weiss was worth it at the time. Now he is overpayed.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

The Rangers and Leafs aren't exactly signing the top free agent every year anymore either. It's the salary cap.

C'mon. Every time they had chance they made big signing pretty much.

 

[DanZ]

Weise isnt doing it for you?

He plays for the Habs.

The wings are being propped up by Datsyuk and Zetterberg aging so well who turn 37 and 35 before next season. I actually think both have another 5 years left in them so it may turn out but they could really use a top pick or two if they want to get back to being a cup contender. The Nyquist and Tatars of the world are ok but it's very unlikely they'll get a superstar anytime soon.

Larkin looks promising. Obviously is a couple years off more than likely but his production during his freshman year at U of M is very comparable or better than several elite offensive players in the NHL, including Toews. He's strong, fast, and a great two-way player as well. Time will tell.

 

[Kronwalled55]

The wings are being propped up by Datsyuk and Zetterberg aging so well who turn 37 and 35 before next season. I actually think both have another 5 years left in them so it may turn out but they could really use a top pick or two if they want to get back to being a cup contender. The Nyquist and Tatars of the world are ok but it's very unlikely they'll get a superstar anytime soon.

5 years is being very generous. Defenders aren't exactly afraid of Datsyuk anymore; he gets knocked off the puck with relative ease nowadays. He's still extremely smart on the ice, but a serious decline is coming sooner rather than later. Zetterberg was one of Detroit's worst players in the Tampa Bay series. He was a complete non factor, and that goes back to the last 20 or so games down the stretch in the regular season too.

Nyquist is a good 2nd liner, and so is Tatar. But they're currently given roles that they aren't going to live up to. Which is pretty much what you said, they're not superstars. That's Detroit in a nutshell right now... Giving players roles they aren't good enough to play.

 

[Nordique]

They are the St Louis Cardinals of the NHL. Mid market, well managed, strong reputation, always competitive and in the conversation.