Is catching Gretzky in goals enough for Ovechkin to surpass Crosby?

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by Dumb and nobody, Nov 1, 2019.

?

If Ovechkin passes Gretzky, is he greater than Crosby?

  1. Yes, regardless of how he does it

    33.8%
  2. Yes, but only if he doesn't do it as a compiler

    3.6%
  3. As long as he comes close, he surpasses Crosby

    5.6%
  4. No, even then Crosby is greater

    43.3%
  5. Ovechkin is already greater

    13.7%
  1. HockeySniper Registered User

    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    26
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Gender:
    Male
    In terms of what? Overall game? If that’s the case Gretzky isn’t the best player of all time
     
  2. KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    6,378
    Likes Received:
    3,971
    Trophy Points:
    111
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    I said OV's smythe run was better than either of Crosby's, which were 16 & 17, not 09. And if you think Kuznetsov should have won the smythe because he had more pts then you must also agree that Crosby should have zero smythes as he never had the most pts in the pens cup runs.
     
    Randyne and Hatfield like this.
  3. Hatfield Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    771
    Likes Received:
    698
    Trophy Points:
    119
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    I don't think Ovechkin could ever beat the record "as a compiler". He's already the best goal scorer of his generation, has lead the league is scoring numerous times, routinely topping 50 goals.

    Gretzky set the record as a less-than-productive goal scorer in his late career. He scored 38 goals the year he broke Howe's record, and that was actually the last time he even scored more than 30.
     
    Randyne and KoozNetsOff 92 like this.
  4. wetcoast Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    7,261
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Gender:
    Male

    I don't think he makes it either but still your premise doesn't work historically.

    NHL Progressive Leaders and Records for Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

    the 3rd column has the leader all time in NHL goals.

    Cy Denney, Nels Stewart and even Maurice Richard who held the #1 spot all before Howe were never considered the greatest players of all time or even in their respective careers were they?

    Maybe Richard from the 40's to 1960 but even then it's extremely debatable.

    When people look at things like who was the better of greater player, most of them can distinguish more than simple counting stats.
     
  5. wetcoast Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    7,261
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Still at some point you have to acknowledge that Crosby has been the best playoff performer post lockout.

    A guy just doesn't lead the field in points and PPG like Crosby does because of team effects.

    83 times since the lockout a player has scored 19 points or more in the playoffs and Crosby has done it 6 times.

    He also leads the field in total points and PPG by quite a large margin.

    To say that anyone else has been a better playoff performer since the lockout just doesn't hold water.

    Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

    The chances of Ovechkin changing that are basically slim to none.
     
  6. wetcoast Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    7,261
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Possibly the weakest argument ever in this debate.
     
  7. Mobiandi Seanny Gaudreau

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    12,461
    Likes Received:
    5,587
    Trophy Points:
    157
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    I think there's a case to be made that Ovechkin is already better
     
  8. psycat Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,998
    Likes Received:
    468
    Trophy Points:
    79
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Location:
    Linkoping Sweden
    Also know that Ovechkin, in the factual world, peaked higher.
     
    Kevin8se7en likes this.
  9. Randyne Registered User

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    581
    Trophy Points:
    89
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Home Page:
    He is absolutely right though:
    The Canadian media prefer Crosby three times more than Ovechkin:
    [​IMG]

    But worldwide YouTube audience prefer Ovechkin:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. wetcoast Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    7,261
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Gender:
    Male

    A youtube search, really?

    Take a look at the top youtube searches and the word trivial (just like the argument being made) comes to mind.

    As for the first table you posted a guy who has been the much better playoff and international player is going to get more written about him, unless of course you except the hockey (or any media) to write about what Ovechkin is doing while crosby is playing in the SC playoffs right?

    Just for fun I googled both players respective injuries and Crosby has 400,000 more results for his injuries, obviously the Canadian factor at play and nothing else right?:sarcasm:

    I stand by my original post on this, just a really weak and sad excuse for an argument.
     
  11. authentic Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    15,721
    Likes Received:
    2,686
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Pretty sure it will since the fact that the majority thought Crosby was better during and will directly after their careers will not be lost, not sure how you think it would be?
     
  12. authentic Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    15,721
    Likes Received:
    2,686
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Crosby has scored more points in a season. Their points per game in their best periods of time whether it be half, 1-3 seasons etc. are nearly dead even and career goes to Crosby easily. He is and has been a better defensive player as well with more playoff points in total and on a per game basis, even though that is largely out of Ovechkin's control. It's not the same thing at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  13. Randyne Registered User

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    581
    Trophy Points:
    89
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Home Page:
    Here is the table from 2018 (Ovi's cup):
    [​IMG]
    Even then Sid mentioned 2 times more in the Canadian media (Ovechkin peaked only once).

    And youtubers far more objective as always:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. wetcoast Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    7,261
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Gender:
    Male
    The weak argument continues again, youtubers are looking for highlights not indicating on which player is better or not.

    I guess if Ovechkin was canadian he would have won more awards right?:sarcasm:
     
  15. Randyne Registered User

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    581
    Trophy Points:
    89
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Home Page:
    Ovechkin already has 6 more awards, but the Canadian media makes Crosby greater than he is.
    You are right youtubers watching highlights and Ovechkin's entire career is highlight.
     
  16. wetcoast Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    7,261
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Gender:
    Male

    Thank you for making my point.
     
  17. Midnight Judges HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,060
    Likes Received:
    4,312
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    .

    Another demonstration of favoritism is the Canadian dominated hockey media nominated Crosby as a top 3 player twice more than the players (7-5) whereas the players nominated Ovechkin as a top 3 player more than the media (6-5).

    So basically the media is more pro Crosby than the players.
     
    ALLCAPSALLTHETIME likes this.
  18. wetcoast Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    7,261
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Gender:
    Male

    So 7-5 compared to 6-5 is some kind of Canadian media bias?

    I guess so since you think that Crosby is anything defensively compared to Ovechkin but I digress and lets keep the facts out of a conspiracy narrative shall we.
     
  19. ALLCAPSALLTHETIME Great Dane! Love that Eller feller.

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    8,082
    Likes Received:
    3,123
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    The Canadian media is definitely pro Crosby.

    Living in Canada, as I do, it has been apparent from day 1.

    They have an agenda and a narrative to push.

    If Ovie was Canadian, it'd be non-stop Ovie coverage, guaranteed.

    It is what it is.
     
  20. Midnight Judges HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,060
    Likes Received:
    4,312
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    It's not 7-5 vs 6-5. That would be a difference of 1 event.

    It's 7-5 vs 5-6 (media vs players)

    So the media bumped Crosby up twice and Ovechkin down once compared to the players. It's a difference of three events.
     
  21. Thenameless Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,289
    Likes Received:
    1,320
    Trophy Points:
    109
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    So, either way it's close, with Crosby being injured for some of his best years.
     
    wetcoast likes this.
  22. HockeySniper Registered User

    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    26
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Different players with different roles and cast. It’s hard to compare. And Crosby has also what 40 more games played in playoffs
     
  23. wetcoast Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    7,261
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Gender:
    Male

    Still fail to see any Canadian media bias here as the 2 awards (Lindsay and Hart) have different criteria right?

    Either way using full season awards to view a whole picture in which one player has 4 seasons out of 14 as complete ones doesn't tell the entire story as we have already covered.

    When Ovechkin isn't an elite scorer it's because his play wasn't elite that season, when Crosby isn't an elite counting stats scorer overall it's because of injuries not a drop in play.
     
  24. Midnight Judges HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,060
    Likes Received:
    4,312
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Ovechkin was injured for some of his best years too, difference being Ovie didn't sit out games.
     
  25. authentic Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    15,721
    Likes Received:
    2,686
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 300,000
    Crosby has more points per game in the playoffs and Ovechkin's role is to score as much as he can.
     
    Thenameless likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"