Is catching Gretzky in goals enough for Ovechkin to surpass Crosby?

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by Dumb and nobody, Nov 1, 2019.

?

If Ovechkin passes Gretzky, is he greater than Crosby?

  1. Yes, regardless of how he does it

    34.4%
  2. Yes, but only if he doesn't do it as a compiler

    3.4%
  3. As long as he comes close, he surpasses Crosby

    5.7%
  4. No, even then Crosby is greater

    43.2%
  5. Ovechkin is already greater

    13.4%
  1. HockeySniper

    HockeySniper Registered User

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    In terms of what? Overall game? If that’s the case Gretzky isn’t the best player of all time
     
  2. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    I said OV's smythe run was better than either of Crosby's, which were 16 & 17, not 09. And if you think Kuznetsov should have won the smythe because he had more pts then you must also agree that Crosby should have zero smythes as he never had the most pts in the pens cup runs.
     
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  3. Hatfield

    Hatfield Registered User

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    I don't think Ovechkin could ever beat the record "as a compiler". He's already the best goal scorer of his generation, has lead the league is scoring numerous times, routinely topping 50 goals.

    Gretzky set the record as a less-than-productive goal scorer in his late career. He scored 38 goals the year he broke Howe's record, and that was actually the last time he even scored more than 30.
     
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  4. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    I don't think he makes it either but still your premise doesn't work historically.

    NHL Progressive Leaders and Records for Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

    the 3rd column has the leader all time in NHL goals.

    Cy Denney, Nels Stewart and even Maurice Richard who held the #1 spot all before Howe were never considered the greatest players of all time or even in their respective careers were they?

    Maybe Richard from the 40's to 1960 but even then it's extremely debatable.

    When people look at things like who was the better of greater player, most of them can distinguish more than simple counting stats.
     
  5. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Still at some point you have to acknowledge that Crosby has been the best playoff performer post lockout.

    A guy just doesn't lead the field in points and PPG like Crosby does because of team effects.

    83 times since the lockout a player has scored 19 points or more in the playoffs and Crosby has done it 6 times.

    He also leads the field in total points and PPG by quite a large margin.

    To say that anyone else has been a better playoff performer since the lockout just doesn't hold water.

    Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

    The chances of Ovechkin changing that are basically slim to none.
     
  6. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Possibly the weakest argument ever in this debate.
     
  7. Mobiandi

    Mobiandi Seanny Gaudreau

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    I think there's a case to be made that Ovechkin is already better
     
  8. psycat

    psycat Registered User

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    Also know that Ovechkin, in the factual world, peaked higher.
     
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  9. Randyne

    Randyne Registered User

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    He is absolutely right though:
    The Canadian media prefer Crosby three times more than Ovechkin:
    [​IMG]

    But worldwide YouTube audience prefer Ovechkin:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    A youtube search, really?

    Take a look at the top youtube searches and the word trivial (just like the argument being made) comes to mind.

    As for the first table you posted a guy who has been the much better playoff and international player is going to get more written about him, unless of course you except the hockey (or any media) to write about what Ovechkin is doing while crosby is playing in the SC playoffs right?

    Just for fun I googled both players respective injuries and Crosby has 400,000 more results for his injuries, obviously the Canadian factor at play and nothing else right?:sarcasm:

    I stand by my original post on this, just a really weak and sad excuse for an argument.
     
  11. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    Pretty sure it will since the fact that the majority thought Crosby was better during and will directly after their careers will not be lost, not sure how you think it would be?
     
  12. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    Crosby has scored more points in a season. Their points per game in their best periods of time whether it be half, 1-3 seasons etc. are nearly dead even and career goes to Crosby easily. He is and has been a better defensive player as well with more playoff points in total and on a per game basis, even though that is largely out of Ovechkin's control. It's not the same thing at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  13. Randyne

    Randyne Registered User

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    Here is the table from 2018 (Ovi's cup):
    [​IMG]
    Even then Sid mentioned 2 times more in the Canadian media (Ovechkin peaked only once).

    And youtubers far more objective as always:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    The weak argument continues again, youtubers are looking for highlights not indicating on which player is better or not.

    I guess if Ovechkin was canadian he would have won more awards right?:sarcasm:
     
  15. Randyne

    Randyne Registered User

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    Ovechkin already has 6 more awards, but the Canadian media makes Crosby greater than he is.
    You are right youtubers watching highlights and Ovechkin's entire career is highlight.
     
  16. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Thank you for making my point.
     
  17. Midnight Judges

    Midnight Judges Registered User Sponsor

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    .

    Another demonstration of favoritism is the Canadian dominated hockey media nominated Crosby as a top 3 player twice more than the players (7-5) whereas the players nominated Ovechkin as a top 3 player more than the media (6-5).

    So basically the media is more pro Crosby than the players.
     
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  18. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    So 7-5 compared to 6-5 is some kind of Canadian media bias?

    I guess so since you think that Crosby is anything defensively compared to Ovechkin but I digress and lets keep the facts out of a conspiracy narrative shall we.
     
  19. ALLCAPSALLTHETIME

    ALLCAPSALLTHETIME Great Dane! Love that Eller feller.

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    The Canadian media is definitely pro Crosby.

    Living in Canada, as I do, it has been apparent from day 1.

    They have an agenda and a narrative to push.

    If Ovie was Canadian, it'd be non-stop Ovie coverage, guaranteed.

    It is what it is.
     
  20. Midnight Judges

    Midnight Judges Registered User Sponsor

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    It's not 7-5 vs 6-5. That would be a difference of 1 event.

    It's 7-5 vs 5-6 (media vs players)

    So the media bumped Crosby up twice and Ovechkin down once compared to the players. It's a difference of three events.
     
  21. Thenameless

    Thenameless Registered User

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    So, either way it's close, with Crosby being injured for some of his best years.
     
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  22. HockeySniper

    HockeySniper Registered User

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    Different players with different roles and cast. It’s hard to compare. And Crosby has also what 40 more games played in playoffs
     
  23. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Still fail to see any Canadian media bias here as the 2 awards (Lindsay and Hart) have different criteria right?

    Either way using full season awards to view a whole picture in which one player has 4 seasons out of 14 as complete ones doesn't tell the entire story as we have already covered.

    When Ovechkin isn't an elite scorer it's because his play wasn't elite that season, when Crosby isn't an elite counting stats scorer overall it's because of injuries not a drop in play.
     
  24. Midnight Judges

    Midnight Judges Registered User Sponsor

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    Ovechkin was injured for some of his best years too, difference being Ovie didn't sit out games.
     
  25. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    Crosby has more points per game in the playoffs and Ovechkin's role is to score as much as he can.
     
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