Is Carey Price Overrated? Part II

[mus1cx]

I have replied to this thread before but i do it again.

Before i said that Price seems to be overrated among Canadiens fans but he is at least among top 10 goalies in the world, maybe top 5.

Imo. There is 4 elite goalies in the league that are a notch level ahead of the others.
Those 4 goalies are (in no order) Rask, Lunqvist, Rinne & Quick.

Behind them are another group of goalies where Price is included, he might very well be the best of this group, thus making himself 5th. best in the world but that is all arguable.

Price is good, nobody can argue that and it seems likely that he will become an elite goalie in the league in the future, maybe the best goalie in the league someday? Maybe a Hall of Famer? Maybe... He just isn't there, yet.

The Olympic performance doesn't really count as an argument that he is ahead of the likes of Lunqvist and Rask, why? 1. Because it was a short tournament, 2. Lunqvist has a gold medal too as a nr.1 goalie from 2006 with great numbers and 3. Rask put up the same numbers as Price and in my opinion was clearly the best goalie in the 2014 Olympics AINEC.

Rask played behind Finlands defense that was mostly rookies, Price was playing behind the greatest offense & defense we have on the planet. Canada would have won the gold 9 times out of 10 with the same team expect for having any other Canadian goalie than price in net.

Finland would have gone nowhere without Rask, nowhere, even if all of our skaters that were injured would have played 9 times out of 10 we wouldn't have grabbed a medal without Rask (maybe if Rinne would have been healthy tho).

And Montreal isn't a borderline play-off team in the league, it's one of the best teams in the whole league, Price isn't dragging his team behind like some people are claiming him to do but he is one of the pieces off the puzzle that makes them good.

See this is the sentiment I don't understand. When Price plays behind a weak team (and yes, the Habs are pretty weak on both offense and defense) the team in front "doesn't count" but when Price plays behind a strong team (Team Canada), he's only good because of his team? In reality, the offense was pretty dry for Team Canada and Price was the difference in a few of the close games.

When Quick and Rask play behind powerhouses, the team doesn't count but when they play in the Olympics, Price is only better because of the team in front of him.

 

[Leafspoison*]

So the top 5 goalies playing in the highest level of hockey on the planet are not elite goalies? There are 2 million people playing hockey on Earth.

Guess again. There are that many in Canada alone. Canada has a population of roughly 34 million and 24 percent of those are playing everything from Mites and pond hockey, all the way up through minor hockey, to beer leagues, to old timer leagues, and grass roots hockey.

I know this because I was with Hockey Canada for a brief time and have been coaching for 22 years.

Now when you factor in the Americans, (a population of 350 million and then some) plus countries like Russia, Finland, Sweeden, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France, Italy etc etc etc.

Probably closer to 30 million. But who knows.

 

[Lurked4Yearz]

Guess again. There are that many in Canada alone. Canada has a population of roughly 34 million and 24 percent of those are playing everything from Mites and pond hockey, all the way up through minor hockey, to beer leagues, to old timer leagues, and grass roots hockey.

I know this because I was with Hockey Canada for a brief time and have been coaching for 22 years.

Now when you factor in the Americans, (a population of 350 million and then some) plus countries like Russia, Finland, Sweeden, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France, Italy etc etc etc.

Probably closer to 30 million. But who knows.

According to a 2013 IIHF census, it was about 1.64 million

The 2014 results are here ->http://www.iihf.com/iihf-home/the-iihf/survey-of-players/
Crunching the numbers brings the total registered players to 1 779 911.

 

[Brooklanders*]

Price let in one goal yesterday. You said, and I quote, "The Islanders would have probably won last night if Halak was in net.", which means you're directly implying Halak would have shut the habs out, because the only way to win when your team scores one goal, is to let zero in (barring going past regulation time). Its not difficult mathematics: 1 > 0

Simple math and stats.
Isles outshot Montreal by a 20 plus margin.
Isles are undefeated in the SO.

 

[Jared Dunn]

The only goalie I don't put Price over is Lundqvist. Rask and Quick don't face nearly as many high quality scoring chances as Price does, they're playing behind much more sound defensive teams so its harder to compare. But no, Price is not overrated. Replace him with a Crawford/Halak level goalie and the Habs would be a bubble team at best.

 

[habsfanatics*]

The only goalie I don't put Price over is Lundqvist. Rask and Quick don't face nearly as many high quality scoring chances as Price does, they're playing behind much more sound defensive teams so its harder to compare. But no, Price is not overrated. Replace him with a Crawford/Halak level goalie and the Habs would be a bubble team at best.

Price is awesome, but the level of separation between elite goalies and the just very good goalies isn't nearly as wide as many let on.

The habs are playoff team with any number 1 caliber goalie imo.

 

[Kunta Kinte]

People saying Rask is better than Price is the biggest travesty on these board.


Price outplayed Rask in playoff, in Olympics, their face to face matchup is shameful for Rask.

He just can't win games against their biggest rivals.

 

[TT1]

I have replied to this thread before but i do it again.

Before i said that Price seems to be overrated among Canadiens fans but he is at least among top 10 goalies in the world, maybe top 5.

Imo. There is 4 elite goalies in the league that are a notch level ahead of the others.
Those 4 goalies are (in no order) Rask, Lunqvist, Rinne & Quick.

Behind them are another group of goalies where Price is included, he might very well be the best of this group, thus making himself 5th. best in the world but that is all arguable.

Price is good, nobody can argue that and it seems likely that he will become an elite goalie in the league in the future, maybe the best goalie in the league someday? Maybe a Hall of Famer? Maybe... He just isn't there, yet.

The Olympic performance doesn't really count as an argument that he is ahead of the likes of Lunqvist and Rask, why? 1. Because it was a short tournament, 2. Lunqvist has a gold medal too as a nr.1 goalie from 2006 with great numbers and 3. Rask put up the same numbers as Price and in my opinion was clearly the best goalie in the 2014 Olympics AINEC.

Rask played behind Finlands defense that was mostly rookies, Price was playing behind the greatest offense & defense we have on the planet. Canada would have won the gold 9 times out of 10 with the same team expect for having any other Canadian goalie than price in net.

Finland would have gone nowhere without Rask, nowhere, even if all of our skaters that were injured would have played 9 times out of 10 we wouldn't have grabbed a medal without Rask (maybe if Rinne would have been healthy tho).

And Montreal isn't a borderline play-off team in the league, it's one of the best teams in the whole league, Price isn't dragging his team behind like some people are claiming him to do but he is one of the pieces off the puzzle that makes them good.

He played behind an awesome D but he still played against the worlds most elite players and he basically didnt allow a single goal in the entire tournament.. do you know how hard that is to do? All of Canada's games were 1-0/2-1 wins, if he makes 1 mistake we might not be here today with a gold medal.

Rask's olympic numbers: Finland OG 4 1.73 (GAA) .938 (SAVE %)
Price's olympic numbers: Canada OG 5 0.59 (GAA) .972 (SAVE %)

 

[Analyzer*]

People saying Rask is better than Price is the biggest travesty on these board.


Price outplayed Rask in playoff, in Olympics, their face to face matchup is shameful for Rask.

He just can't win games against their biggest rivals.

Up until this year, Rask was really bad against the habs and seemed to be, at the very worst, decent in his career against others.

Just like Lundqvist against Montreal in Montreal. Guy would give up 4 easily on most nights and got to the point where Torts wouldn't play him against Montreal. He's back to normal against us now.

Somewhat long story short, you can't just take head to head games as a determining factor as to who's better.They're not to be dismissed either.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

That is not at all true or what I'm saying.
This doesn't even prove the point.
Halak didn't even play last night so how did Price beat him?

You did however state that the Islanders would have won last night if Halak had played.

His point thus stands.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

huh? Price has been playing like the best goalie in the world for some time now. The only goalies I would put up there with price are Quick and King Henrik. I feel bad for the people that dont yet realize how good he is. Im so thankful the habs played this kid when he was 20 and let him fight and struggle a bit early. Hes played so many high pressure games in the playoffs and olympics its taken his game to elite status at the age of 27. Its a beautiful thing.

 

[Brooklanders*]

Price is awesome, but the level of separation between elite goalies and the just very good goalies isn't nearly as wide as many let on.

The habs are playoff team with any number 1 caliber goalie imo.

Yet Rask wins Vezina and Price doesn't?
So such a farfetched notion.
Every top goalie mentioned has started and succeeded for their respective countries.
The argument against Quick, Rask, Lundqvist that they play\played for better defensive and so called NHL "power houses" can't be applied during the Olympics?
Its only convenient when arguing the case for Price.
So I guess Canada wasn't a "powerhouse" type team when they win the gold.

 

[Saintpatrick*]

Then maybe you should watch a Predators game.

U mad cause Price basically shut down your team last night

 

[ottawa]

Simple math and stats.
Isles outshot Montreal by a 20 plus margin.
Isles are undefeated in the SO.

How bout dem strawzz? Price won, deal with it.

 

[BLONG7]

The Islanders would have probably won last night if Halak was in net.

Anyone can defeat Chad Johnson.

And just like Qbs goalies don't play against eachother any way.
Its amazing how overrated Price truly is.

Halak is a good goalie, who often can't handle a heavy workload....it's been proven over and over...that's why GM's don't see him as a bonafide # 1 goalie....

As for Chad Johnson, go back to last years playoffs, and habs fans will tell rangers fans, anyone can beat a rookie called tokarski...see what I did there................

Good luck with Halak...

 

[Nynja*]

Simple math and stats.
Isles outshot Montreal by a 20 plus margin.
Isles are undefeated in the SO.

So what you're saying is Halak will score goals on Price if he were in nets.

The Isles are 6-0 in the SO, with 4 of those SO wins coming against the juggernaut teams of Florida, Jersey, Philly and San Jose (and also LA and Pitts), whereas the habs are 4-1 in the SO having beaten Washington, Philly (offensive Juggernaut), Calgary and Buffalo, as well as the SO loss coming against Buffalo (another offensive Juggernaut, but that game was part of their massive unprecedented win streak)... oh wait, I just checked, Price was sitting that game, so he's also undefeated in the SO.

IN FACT, since you want to gloat about a glorified skills competition:
Halak is 4-0 in the SO, having saved 12 of 15 shots faced, for a .800 sv%
Price is 2-0 in the SO, having saved 7 of 7 shots faced, for a 1.000 sv%

 

[Brooklanders*]

You did however state that the Islanders would have won last night if Halak had played.

His point thus stands.

No that isn't what I said.

 

[Brooklanders*]

So what you're saying is Halak will score goals on Price if he were in nets.

The Isles are 6-0 in the SO, with 4 of those SO wins coming against the juggernaut teams of Florida, Jersey, Philly and San Jose (and also LA and Pitts), whereas the habs are 4-1 in the SO having beaten Washington, Philly (offensive Juggernaut), Calgary and Buffalo, as well as the SO loss coming against Buffalo (another offensive Juggernaut, but that game was part of their massive unprecedented win streak)... oh wait, I just checked, Price was sitting that game, so he's also undefeated in the SO.

IN FACT, since you want to gloat about a glorified skills competition:
Halak is 4-0 in the SO, having saved 12 of 15 shots faced, for a .800 sv%
Price is 2-0 in the SO, having saved 7 of 7 shots faced, for a 1.000 sv%

I never compared Halak and Price. Perhaps you should read the entire thread before you start flaming me.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Wrong. He's a stud.

 

[Nynja*]

I never compared Halak and Price. Perhaps you should read the entire thread before you start flaming me.

Are you serious?
you JUST said that if Halak were in nets last night, Isles would have won. I said Halak would have had to pitch a shutout, and you countered with something akin to "Halak would have gotten the game to a shootout", this idea is reinforced by you saying "The isles are undefeated in the shootout".

I now point out that Price is also undefeated in the shootout, and he's also stopped 7 of 7 shots, whereas Halak has stopped 12 of 15.

Now you say you're not comparing the two?
[mod]

 

[Brooklanders*]

How bout dem strawzz? Price won, deal with it.

As I said before Price is so overrated.

 

[ottawa]

As I said before Price is so overrated.

So are 29 other goalies then

 

[Brooklanders*]

Are you serious?
you JUST said that if Halak were in nets last night, Isles would have won. I said Halak would have had to pitch a shutout, and you countered with something akin to "Halak would have gotten the game to a shootout", this idea is reinforced by you saying "The isles are undefeated in the shootout".

I now point out that Price is also undefeated in the shootout, and he's also stopped 7 of 7 shots, whereas Halak has stopped 12 of 15.

Now you say you're not comparing the two?
[mod]

It shows that you haven't read the thread at all and you twisted my comments.
Maybe you should take a look at what I'm responding to because I most certainly never compared Price to Halak.
This is the last time I will need to state such.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Yet Rask wins Vezina and Price doesn't?
So such a farfetched notion.
Every top goalie mentioned has started and succeeded for their respective countries.
The argument against Quick, Rask, Lundqvist that they play\played for better defensive and so called NHL "power houses" can't be applied during the Olympics?
Its only convenient when arguing the case for Price.
So I guess Canada wasn't a "powerhouse" type team when they win the gold.

I have no idea why you quoted me or wtf you're even trying to say. Rask benefited from playing behind an elite defensive squad, the B's are struggling this year and so is Rask,I would never move Price for Rask.

 

[Nynja*]

It shows that you haven't read the thread at all and you twisted my comments.

Okay, these are your comments, in order of appearance:

The Islanders would have probably won last night if Halak was in net.

Anyone can defeat Chad Johnson.

And just like Qbs goalies don't play against eachother any way.
Its amazing how overrated Price truly is.

That is not at all true or what I'm saying.
This doesn't even prove the point.
Halak didn't even play last night so how did Price beat him?

Simple math and stats.
Isles outshot Montreal by a 20 plus margin.
Isles are undefeated in the SO.

What words am I twisting exactly?

First post: Halak would have won
Second post: No thats not what I said in my first post
Third post: Halak would have won because the Isles outshot the habs (which, as demonstrated by the final score, they scored one goal)

I'm not twisting anything at all, and you're just backpedalling.