Is Building a Team Around Wingers Viable?

trick9

Registered User
Jun 2, 2013
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People keep listing teams that have their best players as wingers but are lacking the other pieces. I mean does someone think that if you swapped Ovechkin and Toews that Washington would have won the Cup without Norris -level D or elite goaltender? Same can be said about Columbus in the Rick Nash days. Whether the guy you built around your forward core is winger or center you still don't win without solid defense.

Chicago is the best winning example of being built around their wingers (4 top wingers) but they still have the other necessary pieces (2 great top-pairing D's and 1C).
 

Addison Rae

Registered User
Jun 2, 2009
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People are ignoring a lot of factors here. None of the recent cup winners just built around one area, LA has an elite goalie, d-man and centre, Chicago has an elite winger, d-man and centre. You can't just build one position and find success. Nashville has built around their D-Core and has had little success, Vancouver use to be built around their goalie and didn't have any success up until the Sedins turned into 100 point players, Pittsburgh may be an exception seeing as they won a cup strictly built on centre's but have struggled since their cup win despite having the best 2 in the world.

The point I'm trying to make here is it's entirely possible to win with a winger being your best player just as long as you have elite player in other positions.
 

WarriorofTime

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Jul 3, 2010
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People keep listing teams that have their best players as wingers but are lacking the other pieces. I mean does someone think that if you swapped Ovechkin and Toews that Washington would have won the Cup without Norris -level D or elite goaltender? Same can be said about Columbus in the Rick Nash days.

Chicago is the best winning example of being built around their wingers (4 top wingers) but they still have the other necessary pieces (2 great top-pairing D's and 1C).

This exactly. You can't just name a team with one good player and point to that and say "see". Like Claude Giroux is a pretty nifty player, but the flyers are terrible. It's not because they "built their team around giroux" its because they have crappy D.
 

bambamcam4ever

107 and counting
Feb 16, 2012
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Sure you can, as long as those players are very good/elite. The reason that most good teams have great centers is that the best offensive players usually play that position. There is no magic formula to winning a cup.
 

CpatainCanuck

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Sep 18, 2008
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A little different when you have Lemaire who was at best the 6th most important player to his team in his best cup winning year.

Not saying Lemaire wasn't a great player just that those teams were by no means built around him. Bergeron/Krejci are central pieces of the Bruins and Toews is the centre piece of the Blackhawks.

Now you're moving the goalposts. Originally you said that the Lemaire era Canadiens are the only team to win the Stanley Cup without an elite centre. If Lemaire isn't an elite centre, then neither are Krejci, Bergeron, Toews and Kopitar.

Now you're saying Lemaire wasn't a "central piece" of those Canadien Teams. Well, its not his fault he played on the best team in NHL history. Nor is it fair to say Bergeron/Krejci and Toews are the centre pieces of their respective teams. Thomas and Chara were more important than Bergeron when they won the cup. And Toews was a member of a large group of star players in Chicago...he wasn't very remarkable in the second cup run.

It is much more accurate instead of stating that "cup winners are built around their centres" to say that "all cup winners have balanced teams with star players at every position". All recent Stanley Cup winners with the possible exception of Pittsburgh had balanced lineups with star players in at least 3 of the four positions:

Los Angeles:
g.Quick, d.Doughty, c.Kopitar,

Chicago:
d.Keith, Seabrook, c.Toews, w. Kane, Sharp, Hossa

Boston:
g.Thomas d.Chara, Seidenberg c.Bergeron, Krejci (really?)

Detroit:
d. Lidstrom, Ralfalski c. Datsyuk w. Zetterberg
 

JoemAvs

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
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No.
It is bound to fail unless you have great management and a crapload of luck.

Especially in the capworld.
Wing is just the least important position in hockey.
You don't want your money tied up on the wings because it means you are either lacking on defense, goaltending or down the middle.

It is also just so much easier to acquire a winger that can produce on your first line than acquiring a top pairing D or a #1 C.

A top flight winger is the last and final piece you need to win the cup that puts you over the top.

Building around them is just not a good idea.
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
28,719
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No.
It is bound to fail unless you have great management and a crapload of luck.

Especially in the capworld.
Wing is just the least important position in hockey.
You don't want your money tied up on the wings because it means you are either lacking on defense, goaltending or down the middle.

It is also just so much easier to acquire a winger that can produce on your first line than acquiring a top pairing D or a #1 C.

A top flight winger is the last and final piece you need to win the cup that puts you over the top.

Building around them is just not a good idea.

I'd say goalie is probaby the least important position in hockey. It's like running back in football. You need good goaltending but it's such a product of the team around you that they're fairly fungible.
 

TonyTinglebone

Registered User
Oct 6, 2008
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Now you're moving the goalposts. Originally you said that the Lemaire era Canadiens are the only team to win the Stanley Cup without an elite centre. If Lemaire isn't an elite centre, then neither are Krejci, Bergeron, Toews and Kopitar.

Now you're saying Lemaire wasn't a "central piece" of those Canadien Teams. Well, its not his fault he played on the best team in NHL history. Nor is it fair to say Bergeron/Krejci and Toews are the centre pieces of their respective teams. Thomas and Chara were more important than Bergeron when they won the cup. And Toews was a member of a large group of star players in Chicago...he wasn't very remarkable in the second cup run.

It is much more accurate instead of stating that "cup winners are built around their centres" to say that "all cup winners have balanced teams with star players at every position". All recent Stanley Cup winners with the possible exception of Pittsburgh had balanced lineups with star players in at least 3 of the four positions:

Los Angeles:
g.Quick, d.Doughty, c.Kopitar,

Chicago:
d.Keith, Seabrook, c.Toews, w. Kane, Sharp, Hossa

Boston:
g.Thomas d.Chara, Seidenberg c.Bergeron, Krejci (really?)

Detroit:
d. Lidstrom, Ralfalski c. Datsyuk w. Zetterberg

Sure I guess calling Lemaire "not elite" may be wrong on my part, although he was never really a star. On the other hand I would think when their careers are over Toews, Bergeron & Kopitar will be thought of as better players than Lemaire. Toews may already be ahead of him.

My point was that he was not a player that a cup winning team was built around. I get that it's not his fault he was on the greatest team in history, all I am saying is that he was a replaceable part on those teams and could have been anywhere from the 6-10 most important player.

I would agree that Chara was the most important piece to Boston followed by Bergeron & Thomas. As for Chicago Toews & Keith are the main pieces of that team.

You list Zetterberg as a winger, but I think he played centre when the Wings won the cup.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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04 Flames came within a bounce of winning a Stanley Cup.

It's not conventional but it's not impossible.

In either case it's not like the Oilers have built themselves that way anyhow. They've had seven picks in the 1st round.

They've take two centers (RNH at no.1, Draisaitl at no.3), three wingers (Hall at no.1, Yak at no.1, Paajarvi at 10), and two d-men (Nurse at no.7, Klefbom at no.14 IIRC).

It just so happens that their centers and d-men are behind the development curve of their wingers who are more mature, but they have drafted fairly evenly in some respects.

I think the Yakupov pick is honestly the only one they'd want back and that was in all honesty a fairly weak draft. Jacob Trouba was probably the best pick for them that year, but this board would've a mini-meltdown from all the "experts" saying what a terrible pick that was because he wasn't even ranked in the top 5 by any scouting service.
 

SLarmer28*

Guest
04 Flames came within a bounce of winning a Stanley Cup.

It's not conventional but it's not impossible.

In either case it's not like the Oilers have built themselves that way anyhow. They've had seven picks in the 1st round.

They've take two centers (RNH at no.1, Draisaitl at no.3), three wingers (Hall at no.1, Yak at no.1, Paajarvi at 10), and two d-men (Nurse at no.7, Klefbom at no.14 IIRC).

It just so happens that their centers and d-men are behind the development curve of their wingers who are more mature, but they have drafted fairly evenly in some respects.
You forgot about center Sam Gagner, 6th overall pick in the 2007 NHL Draft.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2007e.html

I think the Yakupov pick is honestly the only one they'd want back and that was in all honesty a fairly weak draft. Jacob Trouba was probably the best pick for them that year, but this board would've a mini-meltdown from all the "experts" saying what a terrible pick that was because he wasn't even ranked in the top 5 by any scouting service.
Ryan Murray was the best defenseman in the 2012 NHL Draft according to Central Scouting.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=79331
 

Algernop Kreider

Ant strength
Mar 9, 2014
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I get what you are saying, but even then the Capitals in those successes they still had a #1C in Backstrom. I could understand if OV had Bozak as the #1C throughout those years then you build around the winger. I think Backstrom is underrated, and should get more credit than what he gets right now.

Saying that the Caps aren't built around Ovechkin because they have a good 1C is like saying the Lightning aren't built around Stamkos because they have a good 1D. You're confusing the concept of building a team around a winger with just a generally poorly constructed team.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Ovechkin

Absolutely you can build a team around winger. Like any player though, you have to surround him with talent. If you don't, you can't win. No different than any other position.
 

Delicious Dangles*

Guest
The ONLY reason that centers are slightly more valuable is because it gives you more options. Centers can play 3 of the 3 forward positions. Wingers can play 2. That is the only difference. Gives you more options and combinations.

This doesn't make a player any less important to a team or to winning just because he is a winger.

You need strong quality depth, with at least 3-4 high-end guys in at least 2 of the 3 positions. Forward, defense, goalie. That is the only consistent characteristic of Cup teams.

The reason that you find less Cup teams with a winger as their best player is because most star players are centers, or have the ability to play center. This means that cup teams, which tend to have multiple star players, have a high likelihood of one of them being able to play center.

And since people have gotten the idea that centers and defenseman are so important fully engrained into their brains, those players will tend to be viewed as better or more important, which people view as a confirmation of their beliefs, which continues the cycle.

A classic example is people thinking Chicago is built around centers, despite that being their area of weakness for years. Kane is just as important to Chicago's success as Toews or Keith. They don't win without any one of them.

LA Kings also don't win without 3 of their top 4 in points in the playoffs being wingers, top 3 goal-scorers (almost 40% of their goals from 3 players) being wingers, or the Conn Smythe winner being a winger. Actually, their entire top 5 in goals scored last playoffs were wingers. And 6th was a defenseman, and it wasn't Doughty. :laugh:

And most importantly, NONE of them win without their incredible depth.

Also find it odd how Hossa isn't given more credit for the defensive abilities of the Toews line. In fact, I usually find him more noticeable both offensively and defensively.
 
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Derrty

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Apr 24, 2012
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Building your team around a position, isn't nearly as important as building a good team.

Doesn't matter what position your star player resides, if you don't have a championship caliber team.
 

Fear

Registered User
Nov 17, 2014
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This whole thread is silly. A team doesn't try to build around a certain player or two, they try to acquire the best players they can in every position. I'm sure every team would choose a #1 C over a #1 wing but its not like they can just trade them in. The only way to get a #1C in this league is luck of the draft. You have to take the best players available, and if that player is a winger it doesn't mean you are trying to build around wingers.
 

tony d

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Jun 23, 2007
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No, you need to have a balanced approach when it comes to team building i.e. 1 centre, 1 winger, 1 defenseman, 1 goalie.
 

Joedaman55

Registered User
Jun 7, 2014
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The whole theory around "teams don't win building around talented winger" boggles my mind. Most players can transition from center to winger and vise versa. To be a successful center requires more defensive capabilities and stronger at draws. The strongest players at forward tend to play center positions but sometimes this is not always true.

Successful teams build around the best talent available, not a specific position set. When looking at successful teams I don't say "good thing the built around a center/d/goalie/etc." When I look at those successful teams I usually see a team that has been built by loading up on good talent through the draft and are usually really deep.

Using examples such as Ovechkin, Hall, Kessel, Jagr (at times) is a poor way of proving building around a winger is a bad idea; rather, it shows that a poor GM who is terrible at solidifying strong talent around his organization in either the draft or FA can make fans look unfavorably around talented players.
 

MilanKraft*

Guest
Put toews on Edmonton/buffalo and they still suck.

He makes no difference. Overrated.
Just like Kopitar.

Pens win games even without crosby.

This ain't the nba. One player makes no difference.
 

member 145483

Guest
When was the last time a team won the Cup and their clear-cut best player was a winger? I am not trying to steer this one way or the other.
Does it matter?

Take the best winger off the last 5 Stanley Cup champs...and they don't win the cup.

Take the best centre off...they don't win either.

Best d-man...no cup.

Goalie...no cup.

It's almost as if this is a team sport or something...
 

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
20,892
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The GMs probably will tell you the answer to this question ?

How many teams trade a legit #1C ?
How many teams trade a legit #2C ?

Not many.

#1Cs and #1Ds are VERY much in demand in the NHL.

It's almost as if this is a team sport or something...
LOL.
 

The Kingslayer

Registered User
Aug 26, 2004
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Preds have been sort of successful building the back end up and having a star goalie. Can only imagine if they had a star forward.

Star in the making

filip-forsberg-sweden-450x336.jpg
 

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