Good post.The short answer to Ben Scrivens is that any goaltender can put up an elite or an awful save percentage in a small sample size. For every goaltender you can name who saw an increase in sv% going to a stronger team, I can probably name a goalie whose sv% dropped after going to a better team.
Luongo played for Florida for 5 full seasons, while Florida finished 27th, 28th, 28th, 24th, and 21st. 5v5 sv%: 0.9295.
He then played for Vancouver for 7.5 seasons, while the Canucks finished 8th, 21st, 7th, 5th, 1st, 1st, and 8th. 5v5 sv%: 0.9284.
If you apply the save percentage he achieved in Florida and apply it to the quantity of shots he faced in Vancouver, the difference is ~11 goals over 448 games, or roughly 1-2 goals per year.
The difference in sv% from Luongo of Tire Fire Florida and Luongo of back to back Pres trophy Vancouver is worth 1-2 goals per year.
Over the long run (3000+ shots faced), there is no real difference to shot quality between teams. Yes, in Edmonton or Buffalo, there are probably going to be more 5 alarm scoring chances against, but there's also going to be proportionately more 'easy' saves too. There's been a lot of research on this.
Bad post.Definitely. Lundqvist, Rask, and Rinne are the only elite goaltenders in the league.
Price is probably 4th but I don't know if Quick is even in the top 10. He had a huge playoff run in 2012 followed by two good ones the next two years but has been below average his entire career in the regular season.
Lets be honest, 88% of Toronto's fanbase said he was when Bernier was rumoured to become a Leaf. Why trade for Bernier when you have Reimer kind of thing.I just threw up.
Reimer is absolutely 100% NOT better than Bernier.
I think we can all agree Bernier had an elite season last year. He faced the most shots in franchise history, stood on his head all season with great stats before his injury in the last two weeks.
The discussion was then "Can he do it again, if yes, then I will call him elite, if no, then he was a one trick pony". This was the consensus on HF. Now, people are saying to wait and see again? We have enough data to look at by now.
The question is, how is he doing this year?
16th in wins (considering he has split games with Reimer, pretty good, however can also be a knock at him. I think he gets 50+ games this year, which will go a long way to prove he can be an elite starter for the leafs)
Top 10 in Sv% of goalies who played over 20 games
in 16th place for best GAA (considering the shots he gets, pretty good)
He is in 12th for shots against
So right now he is playing in the range of 5-15 of goalies in the NHL right now.
Clearly a starter, but he is not top 5, and therefore not elite. However, he clearly has the potential, and I would argue on a sound defensive team he would be elite as his stats would increase. Let's not pretend other goalies don't get that benefit, some win the Vezina for it..
http://www.puckalytics.com/goaliestats.html
Play with this website a little bit before you put Quick on the same level as Price, Rinne, and Lundqvist
Corporal Komarov said:I think we can all agree Bernier had an elite season last year. He faced the most shots in franchise history, stood on his head all season with great stats before his injury in the last two weeks.
All that being said.. anyone coming in here trying to say Jonathan Quick isn't the top goalie or one of the top 5 goalies in the league should be banned from the discussion. Completely ridiculous.
Bernier is not an elite goaltender. He never was. He never will be. He's a solid #1 goalie who plays above his level when he sees more shots.
I always find it completely ridiculous, as a goaltender myself, how many hockey fans, who don't play the position, know so little about the position. You see it constantly with people blaming goalies for pretty much every goal.
The top 5 goalies in the league are Quick, Lundqvist, Rinne, Rask and Price.
After that you have a grouping of goalies who can play at top 5 level and enter the conversation: Varlarmov, Bishop and Bobrovsky.
Then you have a group of goalies who have great resumes: Ryan Miller, Lehtonen, Hillier and Crawford.
Bernier belongs in the tier below that with: Fleury, Smith, Halak, Schneider, Niemi, Howard, Andersen, Anderson, Holtby, and Luongo.
Bernier is not an elite goaltender. He never was. He never will be. He's a solid #1 goalie who plays above his level when he sees more shots.
I always find it completely ridiculous, as a goaltender myself, how many hockey fans, who don't play the position, know so little about the position. You see it constantly with people blaming goalies for pretty much every goal.
The top 5 goalies in the league are Quick, Lundqvist, Rinne, Rask and Price.
After that you have a grouping of goalies who can play at top 5 level and enter the conversation: Varlarmov, Bishop and Bobrovsky.
Then you have a group of goalies who have great resumes: Ryan Miller, Lehtonen, Hillier and Crawford.
Bernier belongs in the tier below that with: Fleury, Smith, Halak, Schneider, Niemi, Howard, Andersen, Anderson, Holtby, and Luongo.
These goalies are all solid goalies who are capable of play above that tier but also show games where they are below that tier.
All that being said.. anyone coming in here trying to say Jonathan Quick isn't the top goalie or one of the top 5 goalies in the league should be banned from the discussion. Completely ridiculous.
The only reason this thread exists is because he plays on Toronto. If Bernier was on the Islanders, we wouldn't see this.
All of this "well if you take this sample size or this sample size".....ridiculous.
Funny thing is, Bernier's number is comparable to Bishop, Varlamov and Bobrovsky..
Shhh, he plays goalie. His opinion is 100 % correct.
Bernier is still too inconsistent and lets in too many softies. Every time he gets a chance to take the ball and run with it... he doesnt