Is Barzal 3rd best player from the 2015 draft?

[Nismo350z]

Marner couldn't beat Aho with a Zamboni Driver in net?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

There is a double edge to that argument.
He's hurt a lot and thus doesn't play = higher PPG

Oh and higher PPG, aren't actual points.

Not sure I'd say Rantanen is "hurt a lot", when Rantanen missed 28 games last year, and there's only a 23 game difference over their careers in games played. But, I agree that PPG isn't perfect.

But, the issues you're pointing out with PPG are the same issues as P/60, because players don't actually play 60 minutes in a game. And with PP P/60, it's even worse. Marner scores just under 7.5 points per 60 on the PP, but it takes him roughly 24 games to get that 60 minutes of ice time. Rantanen's closer to 5.75, but that's in 17 games. Over a similar number of games, Rantanen scores more PP points. In practice, since 2017-18, Marner has 30 more games played, but Rantanen has 6 more total PPP. So, who is "clearly" the better PP scorer? I'd say there's an argument for each of them, and no clear winner. Just like most of the other stats by which we judge players.

 

[FourRings]

if 2015 is re-done the top5 would be

1. McDavid
2. Marner
3. Aho
4. Eichel
5. Rantanen
6. Barzal

Now that's funny.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Leafs were dead last and rookies made up a a large portion of their team. They made the playoffs and i'm pretty sure Marner was one of the reasons. I guess Rantanen just wasn't good enough to help his team make the playoffs

Fortunately, Rantanen has been good enough to help his team win a playoff series two years in a row, and currently sits 3rd in career playoff PPG since 2005 (10 games minimum). So, I forgive him for not being able to single handedly right the ship in 2016-17.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Marner is also not a goal scorer, that's still pretty important skill. He doesn't have any significant advantages over Rantanen. Rantanen beats him in goal scoring, size and playoffs.

I generally don't like the goals > assists arguments. At the end of the day, a point is a point, and they all mean you're helping your team win.

I also agree with the Leafs fan who said that they had some really hard matchups in the playoffs. So, I'm more than willing to give Marner the benefit of the doubt that he'll be able to turn it around before too long, and maybe close the gap in the playoffs.

So, for me, it's really just about the size. It's also the only thing that probably won't change before now and 2030.

 

[Canadienna]

McDavid
Eichel
Marner
Aho
Chabot
Barzal
Rantanen

 

[TopChedder]

Now that's funny.

Agreed!

I would still put Eichel over Marner long term. I think they are both great but Eichel is a stud C.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

1. McDavid
2. Eichel
3. Marner
4. Aho
5. Barzal
6. Chabot
7. Rantanen
8. Connor
9. Provorov
10. Werenski

Honestly a lot of these players are pretty close though.

 

[FourRings]

Agreed!

I would still put Eichel over Marner long term. I think they are both great but Eichel is a stud C.

Yeah, I mean I have no issues with Marner being #3 on that list, even very close to #2, but to then put Aho above Eichel too? I don't think that's even close.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Yeah, I mean I have no issues with Marner being #3 on that list, even very close to #2, but to then put Aho above Eichel too? I don't think that's even close.

I have definitely Eichel and Aho ahead of Marner. Aho and Barzal have done more to help their team than Marner.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I'm happy with Kyle Connor and all, but I remember Barzal being ranked so low and was hoping the Jets picked him up. But he'd go top-five in a re-draft. One guy that's making a case though is Brock Boeser. I rank Barzal fifth though.

Barzal is amazing, but I see him ageing and becoming a bad player in terms of age after he's somewhere around 29. Similar to Scott Gomez as he reminds me so much of him but with more offensive upside and hockey sense.

1. McDavid
2. Eichel
3. Aho
4. Marner
5. Barzal

 

[Aurinko]

Craziest draft in the history of NHL, no matter how old school you are.

My current (March-2021) picks:
1. McD
2. Aho

 

[RMimagery]

I'm happy with Kyle Connor and all, but I remember Barzal being ranked so low and was hoping the Jets picked him up.

Barzal is amazing, but I see him ageing and becoming a bad player in terms of age after he's somewhere around 29. Similar to Scott Gomez as he reminds me so much of him but with more offensive upside and hockey sense.

Wonder why you say that?

Kid hasn't missed a game and seems to have an incredible oxygen/stamina level. Strange comment

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Barzal is amazing, but I see him ageing and becoming a bad player in terms of age after he's somewhere around 29. Similar to Scott Gomez as he reminds me so much of him but with more offensive upside and hockey sense.

Thank god for the server move and old posts being lost.

 

[FourRings]

I have definitely Eichel and Aho ahead of Marner. Aho and Barzal have done more to help their team than Marner.

For me, Eichel is for sure ahead of Marner. I don't agree with Aho being above Marner, but I can understand the rationale for it.

With that being said, I still wouldn't trade Barzal for Aho or Marner. He fits the Islanders perfectly.

 

[TopChedder]

I have definitely Eichel and Aho ahead of Marner. Aho and Barzal have done more to help their team than Marner.

Marner does a TON for the Leafs lol

In all honesty I can see a small case for Aho, and I like Barzel, one could argue the hole in the Iles lineup would be huge without MB.

But MM does a lot and so much of our play runs through him on PP, PK, and 5x5.

He has actually done more than Eichel for his team as well lol but I still think Jack is a stud C and one of the top young players.

 

[NK94]

Marner does a TON for the Leafs lol

In all honesty I can see a small case for Aho, and I like Barzel, one could argue the hole in the Iles lineup would be huge without MB.

But MM does a lot and so much of our play runs through him on PP, PK, and 5x5.

He's legitimately the best playmaker on the Leafs by far.

 

[TopChedder]

For me, Eichel is for sure ahead of Marner. I don't agree with Aho being above Marner, but I can understand the rationale for it.

With that being said, I still wouldn't trade Barzal for Aho or Marner. He fits the Islanders perfectly.

Barzel does fit you guys like a glove. Well said.

 

[HaNotsri]

As a Sabres fan I see it as McD and then there are a bunch of guys that could be in second place depending on form.

It's between Barzal and Marner this year.

 

[TheFinalWord]

Eichel is having a bad year for what we expect, but I can't imagine that he'd go any lower than 2nd in a redraft. I think Marner would be 3rd, but there are definitely some top players. I think Aho is underrated or certainly not talked about as much because of where he plays. Connor is starting to get some notice. There is a decent argument to be made for 4 or 5 guys to be the 3rd player after McDavid and Eichel. If we're talking just this season so far, then Eichel is not second, but 20 some games does not change a lot.

 

[TopChedder]

Eichel is having a bad year for what we expect, but I can't imagine that he'd go any lower than 2nd in a redraft. I think Marner would be 3rd, but there are definitely some top players. I think Aho is underrated or certainly not talked about as much because of where he plays. Connor is starting to get some notice. There is a decent argument to be made for 4 or 5 guys to be the 3rd player after McDavid and Eichel. If we're talking just this season so far, then Eichel is not second, but 20 some games does not change a lot.

Agreed. I do think it's close between Marner and Eichel, but with Jack being a top line C it's hard to ever see him falling past 2nd.

I just think the premium position tilts it.

After the big 3 in the draft everyone else can slot in wherever.

 

[Thrasymachus]

it really is all gravy for isles fans

Barzal had no business being on the board where he was, and the Reinhart trade is one of the worst NHL trades of all time

 

[SI90]

it really is all gravy for isles fans

Barzal had no business being on the board where he was, and the Reinhart trade is one of the worst NHL trades of all time

From my perspective it’s one of the best trades!!!

 

[Thrasymachus]

From my perspective it’s one of the best trades!!!

From my point of view, Pete Chiarelli is evil!

 

[Skate2Stick]

The oilers would love to thank Peter Chiarelli for this draft.