Is anyone comparing Kessel to Crosby anymore?

Status
Not open for further replies.

MN_Gopher

Registered User
May 2, 2002
3,628
21
Mpls
Visit site
He was a puck hog and hot dog early. But he is learning and lately he has been using his teamates. It was a massacre week end but he had 6 assists and one goal in the AA series. As a team we had 13 goals. So one could say Kessel was the reason we blew them away.
 

espo*

Guest
MN_Gopher said:
He was a puck hog and hot dog early. But he is learning and lately he has been using his teamates. It was a massacre week end but he had 6 assists and one goal in the AA series.
AA series,whats' that? The sauce league?
 

nuck

Schrodingers Cat
Aug 18, 2005
11,339
2,422
MN_Gopher said:
This is what i think. Kessel is not as Crosby overall, nor will he ever be IMHO. Now going by offensive zone only. I think Kessel could be the better player. Meaning he has the potential to put up more points. He has all the tools a scorer needs. He is fast, has a great wrster which he unleashes while using his speed, he has a great one timer, and he has a quick hard slapper. He has good control of all of these shots. He has very good vision and gets passes to players through traffic and quick. Sees the ice well. Is patient with the puck and knows just when to shoot or pass. Plus he is always around the puck. Getting those tap in goals and scrum points. And he has luck. One goal allready goes in off of a skate. When you put the puck on net good things happen. And when you can create space and have the ability to get it on net often even more good things happen.

Your thoughts sort of make sense except that it looks like Crosby might be a 100 point rookie. Are you saying the Phil has the potential to get more than 100pts next year? Have you looked at how many guys have accomplished this and who they are? When you say he has the potential to do more offensively than Crosby, that would also seem to include Savard, Yzerman, Messier, Jagr, Kovalchuk, Forsberg and every other player that didn't manage 100 points as an 18 year old, unless you are assuming that Crosby has peaked. I think Gretzky, Lemieux, and Hawerchuk are the only 100 point teenagers the NHL has seen and Crosby has a shot at being the 4th. Basically any star front line forward will be substantially better by age 22 or 23 than they were as a teenager so at today's scoring levels, Crosby can expect to do no worse than 130 points which is what Hawerchuk managed, although his failure to develop more is kind of a statistical anomally. Yzerman, Jagr, Gretzky, Sakic, and Lemieux all hugely improved on their teenage output and peak seasons of 150% or more of the rookie output are more the rule for elite scorers. I think the Hawerchuk career numbers are extremely unlikely because Crosby is the better player , but within the realm of possibility.
I know Kessel is very good but I can't see the logic in predicting he will score over 100 pts next year or surpass the success of every star Collegian that has preceeded him(because none have managed to do what Crosby seems to be doing this year). He doen't seem to have that much Gretzky in him.
Now if you were to say that he might score more goals than Crosby I could maybe see that as happening. Even Gretzky and Lemieux didn't lead th league in goal scoring every year.
 

KariyaIsGod*

Guest
MN_Gopher said:
This is what i think. Kessel is not as Crosby overall, nor will he ever be IMHO. Now going by offensive zone only. I think Kessel could be the better player. Meaning he has the potential to put up more points. He has all the tools a scorer needs. He is fast, has a great wrster which he unleashes while using his speed, he has a great one timer, and he has a quick hard slapper. He has good control of all of these shots. He has very good vision and gets passes to players through traffic and quick. Sees the ice well. Is patient with the puck and knows just when to shoot or pass. Plus he is always around the puck. Getting those tap in goals and scrum points. And he has luck. One goal allready goes in off of a skate. When you put the puck on net good things happen. And when you can create space and have the ability to get it on net often even more good things happen.

I agree. He does have all these skills, but not to the tune that Sidney Crosby has them...
 

Sammy*

Guest
MN_Gopher said:
You know i feel bad. Here you are trying your best. You get in the way back machine and pull out a name like Flockhart. So i'll give you partial credit and finish your point the way it should have been done.

Brian Lawton had loads of potential. Pat LaFontaine did as well. But who goes ahead of who. And it back fired. Lawton never lived up to much. LaFontaine had a great career. And he had proven himself at a higher level.
How thick are you there Bud. The point is , like so what Kessell may be a faster skater & have a harder shot. Frankly, it means dick squat. All sorts of guys can skate fast & have hard shots, it doesnt translate into more potential. I was drawing the analogy of Flockhart vs Gretzky to point out that fact. I thought that even those with a very rudimentary intellect could figure that one out, but apparently in your case, the analogy wasnt near rudimentary enough at all.
But keep on flogging with those nationalistic insultts there Bud. You wear it well.
 

MN_Gopher

Registered User
May 2, 2002
3,628
21
Mpls
Visit site
nuck said:
Your thoughts sort of make sense except that it looks like Crosby might be a 100 point rookie. Are you saying the Phil has the potential to get more than 100pts next year? Have you looked at how many guys have accomplished this and who they are? When you say he has the potential to do more offensively than Crosby, that would also seem to include Savard, Yzerman, Messier, Jagr, Kovalchuk, Forsberg and every other player that didn't manage 100 points as an 18 year old, unless you are assuming that Crosby has peaked. I think Gretzky, Lemieux, and Hawerchuk are the only 100 point teenagers the NHL has seen and Crosby has a shot at being the 4th. Basically any star front line forward will be substantially better by age 22 or 23 than they were as a teenager so at today's scoring levels, Crosby can expect to do no worse than 130 points which is what Hawerchuk managed, although his failure to develop more is kind of a statistical anomally. Yzerman, Jagr, Gretzky, Sakic, and Lemieux all hugely improved on their teenage output and peak seasons of 150% or more of the rookie output are more the rule for elite scorers. I think the Hawerchuk career numbers are extremely unlikely because Crosby is the better player , but within the realm of possibility.
I know Kessel is very good but I can't see the logic in predicting he will score over 100 pts next year or surpass the success of every star Collegian that has preceeded him(because none have managed to do what Crosby seems to be doing this year). He doen't seem to have that much Gretzky in him.
Now if you were to say that he might score more goals than Crosby I could maybe see that as happening. Even Gretzky and Lemieux didn't lead th league in goal scoring every year.


I do not think Kessel will be ready next year either. Nor will he be dominate right away. He will have to learn the NHL game. He had to learn the NCAA game. It took him about 5 games or so. But i think he has it now. Knows he can not go 1:1 all the time and speed is good. But going wide and missing is not the same as pulling up and hitting a streaking player. His play is improving. I would say Kessel will peak in his second year in the NHL. And maybe not reach top point guy untill his 3-4th year after that. Despits all his skills is overall game is kind of raw. And no one leads the league year after year. But i see him being top 10 for a long time.
 
Last edited:

MN_Gopher

Registered User
May 2, 2002
3,628
21
Mpls
Visit site
Sammy said:
How thick are you there Bud. The point is , like so what Kessell may be a faster skater & have a harder shot. Frankly, it means dick squat. All sorts of guys can skate fast & have hard shots, it doesnt translate into more potential. I was drawing the analogy of Flockhart vs Gretzky to point out that fact. I thought that even those with a very rudimentary intellect could figure that one out, but apparently in your case, the analogy wasnt near rudimentary enough at all.
But keep on flogging with those nationalistic insultts there Bud. You wear it well.


I hope you never go into debate or politics. You cant cry when you through something on the table and it gets used against you. You chosse to add the last line. You could have dropped it at Flockhart vs Gretzky. But You added that last line.

If i insulted anyone i apologize.
 

X-SHARKIE

Registered User
Every prospect has a defining moment, or a coming out party, Kessel already has had is...

but the 6-3 win for Minnesota was his first of this year IMO.

He was excellent all night vs. a great defensive group in Michigan.

2 goals and an assist.

Probally silenced the critics who were talking of Toews going 1st overall.
 
Last edited:

Sammy*

Guest
MN_Gopher said:
I hope you never go into debate or politics. You cant cry when you through something on the table and it gets used against you. You chosse to add the last line. You could have dropped it at Flockhart vs Gretzky. But You added that last line.

If i insulted anyone i apologize.
If you took the time to read the post I was responding to, it was he who brought nationality to the table. You then carried it furthur with some commentary about Canadians & Daigle, which only god knows what the connection is to the case at hand or even how Canadians and the Daigle draft pick are somehow connected in any meaningful way.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MN_Gopher

Registered User
May 2, 2002
3,628
21
Mpls
Visit site
I thought that Flockhart was an amerian at first. And i thought you meant that Americans believed that Flock was better than Gretzky while Candians held faith in Gretz. Then when you said what do us Candians know i thought you were being cute using reverse psychology. So Daigle CHL picked higher vs Kariya NCAA picked lower seemed like a good comeback. Being Daigle Canadian backed and Kariya American backed. But i guess when u assume. And if that was the case i am that *** today.

I need to lay off the "special" holiday nog
 

Sammy*

Guest
MN_Gopher said:
I thought that Flockhart was an amerian at first. And i thought you meant that Americans believed that Flock was better than Gretzky while Candians held faith in Gretz. Then when you said what do us Candians know i thought you were being cute using reverse psychology. So Daigle CHL picked higher vs Kariya NCAA picked lower seemed like a good comeback. Being Daigle Canadian backed and Kariya American backed. But i guess when u assume. And if that was the case i am that *** today.

I need to lay off the "special" holiday nog
No problem. I apologize for getting my back up.
Happy holiday.
 

KariyaIsGod*

Guest
MN_Gopher said:
I thought that Flockhart was an amerian at first. And i thought you meant that Americans believed that Flock was better than Gretzky while Candians held faith in Gretz. Then when you said what do us Candians know i thought you were being cute using reverse psychology. So Daigle CHL picked higher vs Kariya NCAA picked lower seemed like a good comeback. Being Daigle Canadian backed and Kariya American backed. But i guess when u assume. And if that was the case i am that *** today.

I need to lay off the "special" holiday nog

But the situation doesn't apply. Daigle is an incredibly unique case and comparing him to Kariya was a mistake, not in terms of on ice skill and potential, but more so mentally.

Daigle failed because he didn't want to play hockey. That's it. The talent was there, it was all there...
 

fatsunny

Registered User
Jan 22, 2005
53
0
Don't get me wrong, Kessel is a great offensive player and a threat whenever he is on the ice, but really, his overall game is not at Crosby's level. No one under 20 years old is close to Sid.

Let's compare segments of the game:

Toughness: Crosby
Speed: Kessel
Skating: Crosby
Shot: ??
Creativity: Crosby
Passing: Crosby
Feel around the net: ??
Defense: Crosby
Elusivity: Crosby
One on One play: ??, maybe Kessel

Heck, as an American, I would love to see Kessel play at a higher level than Crosby, but this American just doesn't see that happening. That is not a dig, but when you compare someone to the greatest player to come through in over 15 - 20 years, it's a tough comparison.
 

nuck

Schrodingers Cat
Aug 18, 2005
11,339
2,422
MN_Gopher said:
I do not think Kessel will be ready next year either. Nor will he be dominate right away. He will have to learn the NHL game. He had to learn the NCAA game. It took him about 5 games or so. But i think he has it now. Knows he can not go 1:1 all the time and speed is good. But going wide and missing is not the same as pulling up and hitting a streaking player. His play is improving. I would say Kessel will peak in his second year in the NHL. And maybe not reach top point guy untill his 3-4th year after that. Despits all his skills is overall game is kind of raw. And no one leads the league year after year. But i see him being top 10 for a long time.

I watched the Michigan game. The Gopher's PP was scary. It is almost too bad Kessel is on such a deep team. From a showcase/development standpoint being top dog on a one line team is the quickest way to get results. I expect he will be ready next year though and Columbus or St Louis will play him till he pukes.
 

Gags1288

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
4,359
0
Visit site
Can anyone tell me about the play of Ryan Potulny? I know he registered a hattrick, but was he impressive in doing so? I expect him to turn pro next year, do people think he's close to being NHL ready or is he a year or two away? Can he be a top 2 line player at the next level? Thanks in advance for your response.
 

Transported Upstater

Guest
Gags1288 said:
Can anyone tell me about the play of Ryan Potulny? I know he registered a hattrick, but was he impressive in doing so? I expect him to turn pro next year, do people think he's close to being NHL ready or is he a year or two away? Can he be a top 2 line player at the next level? Thanks in advance for your response.


I do not think he can play in the NHL next season.
 

espo*

Guest
TransportedUpstater said:
I do not think he can play in the NHL next season.
Not sure trans,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe he can do it.................big time spread.Let's watch the world juniors !!!

Lot's of fun!!
 

fatsunny

Registered User
Jan 22, 2005
53
0
nuck said:
I watched the Michigan game. The Gopher's PP was scary. It is almost too bad Kessel is on such a deep team. From a showcase/development standpoint being top dog on a one line team is the quickest way to get results. I expect he will be ready next year though and Columbus or St Louis will play him till he pukes.

Being the top dog on a one line team is the quickest way to get the opponents top D line against your line night after night. Minnesota has a team with a lot of depth. Minnesotas puck movement against Michigan was excellent.

BTW, Kessel gets every first shift on the PP. He's getting showcased as much, if not more than anyone on that team.
 

Transported Upstater

Guest
fatsunny said:
Don't get me wrong, Kessel is a great offensive player and a threat whenever he is on the ice, but really, his overall game is not at Crosby's level. No one under 20 years old is close to Sid.

Let's compare segments of the game:

Toughness: Crosby
Speed: Kessel
Skating: Crosby
Shot: ??
Creativity: Crosby
Passing: Crosby
Feel around the net: ??
Defense: Crosby
Elusivity: Crosby
One on One play: ??, maybe Kessel

Heck, as an American, I would love to see Kessel play at a higher level than Crosby, but this American just doesn't see that happening. That is not a dig, but when you compare someone to the greatest player to come through in over 15 - 20 years, it's a tough comparison.



Kessel is faster and has a better shot. That's about it.
 

nuck

Schrodingers Cat
Aug 18, 2005
11,339
2,422
Gags1288 said:
Can anyone tell me about the play of Ryan Potulny? I know he registered a hattrick, but was he impressive in doing so? I expect him to turn pro next year, do people think he's close to being NHL ready or is he a year or two away? Can he be a top 2 line player at the next level? Thanks in advance for your response.

I absolutely think he could be a top 6 forward. The goals were not scrambley garbage. He is a shooter and has a lot of poise in traffic. Philly has a lot more depth at center than on the wing. He might be two years away from much icetime but he will get their, and not as a bench warmer.
 

KariyaIsGod*

Guest
Man this thread is a joke.

We are comparing a player who can't even dominate U.S. College hockey to a player only a few months older than him who has had incredible success in the NHL already...

This is honeslty one of the most ridiculous comparisms I've seen on these boards in a long time..
 

MN_Gopher

Registered User
May 2, 2002
3,628
21
Mpls
Visit site
Kessel is not NHL ready at this very moment. So the comparison is not Kessel today vs Crosby today. Its Kessel in 3 years vs Crosby in 3 years. Or at least thats how i see it. Kessel just had a 5 point week end against Mich and Mich ST. Has 16 points in his last eight games. Is out scoring the likes of Blake Wheeler, Drew Stafford, Ryan Stoa, Kris Chucko, TJ Oshie, Jonathon Towes, Jack Skille, Andrew Cogliano, Travis Zajac and more that all could all be solid NHLers.


Potulny may be NHL ready next year. Is good in his own end and usually on face offs. So he could be a good 3rd line player. But with Forsberg, Carter, Richards and others eating up top spots playing him on the 4th line would be a waste of his devolopment. He almost sat out his entire freshamn year. So this will only be his 2nd full year in the NCAA. Another year would not hurt. Then i think he could play 3rd line center in Philly. Maybe get some solid PP time.
 

AgentNaslund*

Guest
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=141986&hubname=nhl

i feel sorry for the Kessel Homers. Doing what it takes to make everyone try to believe Kessel belongs in the leauge of Crosby and Ovechkin. :biglaugh: this thread is rather quite hilarious. And who ever decided to label Kessel the "next one" should be shot. Im one guy that seen Kessel play at the world Juniors, and it wasnt one game it was a few. TSN showed it, and im very disapointed. I thinking I would see someone in the leauge of Sidney Crosby and I was rather shocked. He was nowhere near his leauge. Just some young kid that can skate like the wind, and have a good slap shot. Rather ineffective as I see him play against a not so strong Belarus team. Just sad. Kessel will fly down the wing, but he will be angled off the puck, and lose posession. So this is the next one? why the hell was this kid compared to Sidney Crosby? funny.
Still trying hard by making a comment, "he has better offensive potentials" that makes me laugh even harder. Its in the same leauge as somone saying, theres a very good chance Jonathn Toews will be the number 1 pick.

Im not saying Kessel is not gonna be a good player one day, but this thread is just plain hilarious. Even at max potential I dont see Kessel being in the same leauge as Crosby or Ovechkin. Probably in the leauge of Eric Staal, Jason Spezzas.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->