Is Andy Moog underrated?

[Big Phil]

Do we forget about Moog over the course of history? Or is he right about the spot that he should be? In other words, just slightly missing the cut off point for the HHOF.

Here is his Vezina finishes:
3, 5, 5, 5, 7, 7, 8, 8

Playoff record 68-57

Played a bit more than people remember in the playoffs for Edmonton. He and Fuhr usually split the regular season while a more than capable Moog on any other team usually was relegated to back up duty in the playoffs. However, he had his moments.

1981 - 5-4
1983 - 11-5 (took a team to the Cup final while Fuhr played just 11 minutes in postseason)
1984 - 4-0 (in net for last three games of Cup final)
1985 - 0-0 (played 18 minutes)
1986 - 1-0
1987 - 2-0

He didn't lose a single game in the Cup winning years and was the goalie who took the Oilers to the final in 1983. Also was part of that big upset of Montreal in 1981.

Then in Boston:
1988 - 1-4 (no, not great, but was in net for the Cup final vs. the Oilers sharing things with Lemelin)
1990 - 13-7 (took Bruins to Cup final)
1991 - 10-9 (lost to Mario's Pens in semis)
1992 - 8-7 (lost to Mario's Pens in semis)

Then there was 1998 where he was part of an upset of the Penguins in the 1st round.

Obviously these are his highlights. He had some low playoffs in 1993, 1995 and 1997.

But all I am saying is that is Moog underrated when it comes to how he was as a playoff goalie?

Click to read more...

 

[Neutrinos]

I think it shows that Fuhr is overrated

 

[Big Phil]

That isn't what I was gunning for per se. I think the Oilers had two very good goalies who were capable of delivering them a Cup. Fuhr was better because he was more likely to steal a game or a series. Moog had his moments with that of course, but he was probably steadier but more stagnant than Fuhr. I am not sure Moog delivers at a time such as the 1987 Canada Cup.

 

[FerrisRox]

I think he's right where he belongs, a great goaltender who wasn't quite Hall of Fame material.

 

[Michael Farkas]

If anything, he's overrated. Not reliable. His floor was too low. Worse version of Vernon...

 

[The Panther]

It's really tough to get a handle on him. When I was a kid, my Dad and I preferred Moog to Fuhr, generally, because Moog was more consistent and didn't have the tendency to let in embarrassingly bad goals, as Fuhr did. But Fuhr really got it done in the '85 and '87 playoffs and obviously after '84 the Oilers' brass trusted Fuhr in those situations more than Moog.

Check out Moog's won-lost record up to 1991 (with Edm. and Boston): 214 - 92 - 45. I mean, it's pretty stellar. Up to 1990, in the playoffs he was 41 - 22. He also had that late-career 1996-97 season with Dallas, where he went 28-13-5.

But he mostly played for really strong teams, and often his partner-goalie did as well or better than him. Really it's only the 1995 and 1995-96 seasons where he played for a poor/average team. But then his numbers look really good on those teams.

With Edmonton, he looked great in the '81 and '83 playoffs, but then again the Oilers steam-rolled opponents through the first three rounds in 1983, and it's hard to see that any starter wouldn't have looked good. In the Finals, when they were swept, his numbers are kind of mediocre-to-poor. Then, he rarely played again in the playoffs until he was with Boston.

With Boston in the playoffs, he rarely looked good. (He was awful in the 1990 Finals, esp. in game two.)

In the '97 series against Edmonton, he also looked rather average, and disastrous on that horrid overtime goal on a muffin-shot by Ryan Smyth.

Moog is probably somewhere in that Vernon/Osgood kind of position, as in 'good starter, could get it done, but not really the reason his teams won'.

 

[shazariahl]

That isn't what I was gunning for per se. I think the Oilers had two very good goalies who were capable of delivering them a Cup. Fuhr was better because he was more likely to steal a game or a series. Moog had his moments with that of course, but he was probably steadier but more stagnant than Fuhr. I am not sure Moog delivers at a time such as the 1987 Canada Cup.

I basically agree with this. As a die-hard Oilers fan especially from that period, I don't know that Fuhr was actually better. Don't get me wrong - at their respective bests, he was. But Fuhr also was prone to letting in really bad goals... something he did a lot. I always felt that Moog was more consistent, but Fuhr was more likely to steal a game or even a series. Overall, I think the Oilers were smart to go the way they did - Fuhr seemed to play better in the post season. But Moog was less likely to lose you a game. On a team like Edmonton, where they were scoring a ton, I think Moog was fine, and the Oilers probably would have won most or even all of those cups with him in net. So I guess the TLDR is Fuhr was more likely to steal a game, Moog less likely to cost you a game. That being said, Fuhr seemed to have a higher ceiling.

 

[McGarnagle]

As far as his Bruins stint went in the playoffs, I'd say a bit underwhelming. But until Thomas firmly grasped the #1 job in 07-08, he was the last consistent franchise goalie the Bruins had for a good 15 years.

Lemelin outplayed him in 88, in 1990 he was good until the finals and then got blasted while Ranford shut down the Bruins. The next 2 years against the Pens he wasn't great, but the overall quality of the Boston defense was also fading. 1993 was just a disaster, and that combined with some issues off the ice caused the Bruins brass to ditch him (IIRC Moog was a big shot in the players' union and Sinden/Jacobs were anti-union to say the least during the 92 strike and the leadup to the 94 lockout).

Anyone know if there is any truth to that apocryphal story that after the 1993 playoffs, Sinden ordered locker room staff to dump all of Moog's equipment into the hallway?

 

[The Panther]

I basically agree with this. As a die-hard Oilers fan especially from that period, I don't know that Fuhr was actually better. Don't get me wrong - at their respective bests, he was. But Fuhr also was prone to letting in really bad goals... something he did a lot. I always felt that Moog was more consistent, but Fuhr was more likely to steal a game or even a series. Overall, I think the Oilers were smart to go the way they did - Fuhr seemed to play better in the post season. But Moog was less likely to lose you a game. On a team like Edmonton, where they were scoring a ton, I think Moog was fine, and the Oilers probably would have won most or even all of those cups with him in net. So I guess the TLDR is Fuhr was more likely to steal a game, Moog less likely to cost you a game. That being said, Fuhr seemed to have a higher ceiling.

Agree with all of this!

 

[Big Phil]

Anyone know if there is any truth to that apocryphal story that after the 1993 playoffs, Sinden ordered locker room staff to dump all of Moog's equipment into the hallway?

I don't know if Sinden would have done that, but I could imagine Jeremy Jacobs ordering something like that. Needless to say Moog didn't have a good series.

 

[Vanzig]

He is not as bad as some say, I mean he is in the
TOP 20 All Time in Regular Season WINS (#18th)
(#11th) All Time in Playoffs,

***Key Playoff Moments***
- 1981 Miracle in Montreal (Defeated Habs as a Rookie)
- #1 Starter as he takes Oilers to Finals vs Islanders Dynasty.
- Won the 1984 Stanley Cup (Won 3 Games in Finals and was in Net for Oilers 1st CUP Ever.
- Took BRUINS to the Stanley Cup Finals vs ex Dynasty Team.

I mean that and an 18 Season Career which Only a Handful Of NHL Goalie’s have done is pretty great, He was a quiet guy but had a Great Career and I personally think he was Underrated.
Heck I’m sure a lot of Goalies would kill for the Career he had. You win some and you lose some and he Won more than he lost in Regular Season and in the Playoffs.

 

[FerrisRox]

If anything, he's overrated. Not reliable. His floor was too low. Worse version of Vernon...

How was Andy Moog unreliable?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Felt like he gave up too many weak goals, particularly his time in Boston...they couldn't afford to erase errors like Edmonton could and I didn't think Moog delivered the goods enough...I don't think he was as safe of a goalie as that potato, Osgood. Like I said earlier, Moog is just Vernon but without the ability to go ham and steal a couple series, but still also wasn't good enough to beat Gretzky either...

He doesn't do a lot for me. I didn't see the '81 series that's being referenced either, to be fair...

 

[MXD]

Felt like he gave up too many weak goals, particularly his time in Boston...they couldn't afford to erase errors like Edmonton could and I didn't think Moog delivered the goods enough...I don't think he was as safe of a goalie as that potato, Osgood. Like I said earlier, Moog is just Vernon but without the ability to go ham and steal a couple series, but still also wasn't good enough to beat Gretzky either...

He doesn't do a lot for me. I didn't see the '81 series that's being referenced either, to be fair...

Well, it's the Oilers, and they were facing Richard Sevigny.

 

[MXD]

To the question : ... How is Moog rated in the first place?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

for me, the modern version of Moog is Halak. Both show flashes of greatness that get you excited, but overall are very hot and cold goalies.

They both show short periods of all world talent, but lack any consistency.

 

[tony d]

He had a very good run in his career. Don't think he was ever a top 5 goalie in the league but still a solid hand to have in net.

 

[The Panther]

He had a very good run in his career. Don't think he was ever a top 5 goalie in the league but still a solid hand to have in net.

It's all debatable, but I'd say he was a top-5 goalie circa 1981-83 through 1986-87. After that, he was still good for more years but the competition was getting pretty stiff.

 

[Jumptheshark]

One former oiler put is best. He was too nice of a guy and did not have real nasty bone in his body. And that hurt him a bit

 

[Danny46]

Moog is probably somewhere in that Vernon/Osgood kind of position, as in 'good starter, could get it done, but not really the reason his teams won'.

I think Vernon is a level ahead of these 2 guys, he was pretty special in some key moments, he was amazing in the 1989 playoffs, to me even more than he was when he won the playoff mvp in 1997. Vernon when he was on he was special, not sure if HOF worthy but more than Moog and Osgood for sure...

 

[Danny46]

Moog had his moments but he was not a HOF goalie, you could see it with Dallas, he left and Belfour came after and that's when the Stars became a real contender.

 

[Stephen]

How do you guys rank him in relation to John Vanbiesbrouck? Another acrobatic, small platoon goalie early in his career, played from the 80s to the 2000s.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Beezer is multiple tiers better for me...

 

[buffalowing88]

How do you guys rank him in relation to John Vanbiesbrouck? Another acrobatic, small platoon goalie early in his career, played from the 80s to the 2000s.

Vanbiesbrouck was in the Hart nominations twice, nearly a decade apart. In between, he was considered one of the league's better goalies. I don't think Moog holds a flame to that, and I do like Moog. They're just different echelons.

 

[JianYang]

It's really tough to get a handle on him. When I was a kid, my Dad and I preferred Moog to Fuhr, generally, because Moog was more consistent and didn't have the tendency to let in embarrassingly bad goals, as Fuhr did. But Fuhr really got it done in the '85 and '87 playoffs and obviously after '84 the Oilers' brass trusted Fuhr in those situations more than Moog.

Check out Moog's won-lost record up to 1991 (with Edm. and Boston): 214 - 92 - 45. I mean, it's pretty stellar. Up to 1990, in the playoffs he was 41 - 22. He also had that late-career 1996-97 season with Dallas, where he went 28-13-5.

But he mostly played for really strong teams, and often his partner-goalie did as well or better than him. Really it's only the 1995 and 1995-96 seasons where he played for a poor/average team. But then his numbers look really good on those teams.

With Edmonton, he looked great in the '81 and '83 playoffs, but then again the Oilers steam-rolled opponents through the first three rounds in 1983, and it's hard to see that any starter wouldn't have looked good. In the Finals, when they were swept, his numbers are kind of mediocre-to-poor. Then, he rarely played again in the playoffs until he was with Boston.

With Boston in the playoffs, he rarely looked good. (He was awful in the 1990 Finals, esp. in game two.)

In the '97 series against Edmonton, he also looked rather average, and disastrous on that horrid overtime goal on a muffin-shot by Ryan Smyth.

Moog is probably somewhere in that Vernon/Osgood kind of position, as in 'good starter, could get it done, but not really the reason his teams won'.

As a habs fan, Moog is the goalie I associate to the bruins teams that were beating the habs in the playoffs regularly. They had others, but I think it was mostly Moog. Didn't he beat the habs with the oilers too?

That's one team I guess you could say he had good playoffs against.