IOC won't be compensating NHL for using players, but...

[jekoh]

The Olympic participation was "grudgingly" approved by the owners.

To sum it up, Olympic participation was approved and therefore it won't be next time around.

You have me convinced.

 

[Shawa666]

FIFA World Cup is 1000x more important than Olympic soccer gold.

AFAIK, they only send u-23's to the Olympics, because the FIFA doesn't want the World Cup to be devaluated.

 

[MountainHawk]

You'd have to be really careful including Olympic revenue in HRR, wouldn't you? Or the cap would shoot up for a season, then drop back down, and a dropping cap is bad for the league and the NHLPA.

 

[kdb209]

You'd have to be really careful including Olympic revenue in HRR, wouldn't you? Or the cap would shoot up for a season, then drop back down, and a dropping cap is bad for the league and the NHLPA.

There are already terms under HRR that allow one time payments to Clubs (or monies advanced from future payments) to be averaged out over multiple years. It would be pretty straight forward to have any Olympic payments spread out over 4 years for HRR purposes.

That said - the NHL will never get significant enough revenues from the Olympics (even assuming such revenues are included in HRR in the next CBA) to have any non-negligible impact on the cap. Even a $20M payment spread out over 4 years would only net a <$100K bump in the cap.

 

[Fugu]

To sum it up, Olympic participation was approved and therefore it won't be next time around.

You have me convinced.

To sum it up, Olympic participation was approved in the last CBA and therefore it will be next time around.

You have me convinced.

 

[Jussi]

AFAIK, they only send u-23's to the Olympics, because the FIFA doesn't want the World Cup to be devaluated.

With 3 overagers (or two, can't remember which one). And most of those U-23 players are still "pros".

 

[Lateralous]

Having read though this whole thread, I think a lot of people who are saying the NHL should just ditch the Olympics and hold a World Cup of Hockey instead are de-valuing just how big the Olympics are. This is not to say that I think the NHL shouldn't be pushing for some type of compensation whether it be the media rights, insurance or whatever but the two sides should do whatever possible to make it work for both. In Canada it's obviously different, and I can't speak for Europe, but a september World Cup isn't going to pull 1/20th the US TV rating that an Olympic Final would. It's the same reason that for 3 years and 11 months I don't have a clue about skiing, bobsled or curling but for 2 weeks ever 4 years I'm glued to the TV.

Also, for those using the World Cup of Soccer as a comparision, that is a whole different animal. The Wold Baseball Classic is a better comparison and at least here, no one cares.

 

[Jussi]

Having read though this whole thread, I think a lot of people who are saying the NHL should just ditch the Olympics and hold a World Cup of Hockey instead are de-valuing just how big the Olympics are. This is not to say that I think the NHL shouldn't be pushing for some type of compensation whether it be the media rights, insurance or whatever but the two sides should do whatever possible to make it work for both. In Canada it's obviously different, and I can't speak for Europe, but a september World Cup isn't going to pull 1/20th the US TV rating that an Olympic Final would. It's the same reason that for 3 years and 11 months I don't have a clue about skiing, bobsled or curling but for 2 weeks ever 4 years I'm glued to the TV.

Same here though not maybe quite as bad numbers, but like I've said in numerous threads, September is THE WORST time of the year to stage a hockey tournament. All the European football leagues have just begun, the domestic hockey leagues are about to begin, plus the fact that every two years there's basically a major summer sporting event (World Cup, Euro Championships, Summer Olympics), if you add the IAAF World Championships(which get huge media attention) there's not many off years at all. The media will lack interest and resources (the said sporting events will have sucked off most of their yearly budget), the fans will be exhausted or focused on their routines (in Finland EPL, La Liga, domestic football league coming to a close, SM-liiga starting etc.). There's just little interest to wake up at 2-4 am to watch a summer tournament, not to mention that in Finland it'd end up pay-tv, meaning even smaller viewership. These crazy mothercanuckers just can't get it through to their heads that outside of Canada, there's very little interest in the World Cup. Olympics>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>World Cup.

 

[Fugu]

Having read though this whole thread, I think a lot of people who are saying the NHL should just ditch the Olympics and hold a World Cup of Hockey instead are de-valuing just how big the Olympics are. This is not to say that I think the NHL shouldn't be pushing for some type of compensation whether it be the media rights, insurance or whatever but the two sides should do whatever possible to make it work for both. In Canada it's obviously different, and I can't speak for Europe, but a september World Cup isn't going to pull 1/20th the US TV rating that an Olympic Final would. It's the same reason that for 3 years and 11 months I don't have a clue about skiing, bobsled or curling but for 2 weeks ever 4 years I'm glued to the TV.

Also, for those using the World Cup of Soccer as a comparision, that is a whole different animal. The Wold Baseball Classic is a better comparison and at least here, no one cares.

That hasn't been my position at all. I'm trying to think why they'd do either thing. There's no reason to shut down the NHL during its season to re-shuffle the players and have a World Cup. The off-season is in the summer when neither fans nor players are thinking of hockey. There has to be some HUGE benefit to the league to risk having players get injured and get even less rest. I have a hard time quantifying that benefit.

That said, the league seems to see a benefit to playing in Europe at least, hence their season openers there where the fans can see real NHL teams playing in games that will count.

As for the Olympics, what is the value to the NHL? There was an assumption that the exposure would lure in new fans hence their participating in the first place. Now that they've been to 4 Olympics, it's okay to question what the return is to the owners for "loaning" their employees out during the season while shutting things down, and then compressing the schedule. They still pay all the players.

What are they getting back specifically?

Have NHL ratings improved due to the Olympics? Is there a bump? Do sponsors notice and THEN decide to associate themselves with the league (except that they're not allowed to use any Olympics imagery, so how do you make that connection)?

 

[Killion]

I don't have a clue about skiing, bobsled or curling but for 2 weeks every 4 years I'm glued to the TV.

You should get out of Conshy more. Drive on up to the Pocono's & partake.

These crazy mothercanuckers just can't get it through their heads that outside of Canada, there's very little interest in the World Cup. Olympics>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>World Cup.

Im no apologist or fan of the NHL's business practices, but c'mon. For shutting down & providing the talent, with risk to same, the sizzle to the steak, they along with the NHLPA dont deserve compensation?. A slice of the limppu?.

And lets think outside of the sauna, or in it if you prefer. If the NHL, KHL & IIHF (minus Rene' Fasel who is wearing one too many tooques for my liking) opted out of the Olympics & shutdown over Christmas & staged a World Cup you telling me you wouldnt watch?....

 

[Fugu]

@ Killion.

The relative value of the Olympics is being ignored by the pro-Olympics crowd. It's categorized as the ultimate sporting event for all sports. Except, upon closer and more careful observation, we find the Olympic Gold <<<<<<<<<<< World's Favorite Sport, independently run.

How do you pitch the Olympics as the absolute pinnacle of sports when the reality is things are a bit more checkered? Do you ignore that the NHL has only participated in four Olympic events, out of a possible 21? Both entities have survived without the other for a very long time.

 

[Jussi]

Im no apologist or fan of the NHL's business practices, but c'mon. For shutting down & providing the talent, with risk to same, the sizzle to the steak, they along with the NHLPA dont deserve compensation?. A slice of the limppu?.

And lets think outside of the sauna, or in it if you prefer. If the NHL, KHL & IIHF (minus Rene' Fasel who is wearing one too many tooques for my liking) opted out of the Olympics & shutdown over Christmas & staged a World Cup you telling me you wouldnt watch?....

Well first of all I haven't commented on this compensation aspect yet but since no other sports league gets compensation, why should the NHL? If the IOC did that, the other sports would soon raise their voices and the IOC are not going to risk it. I do think that IOC is far too strict on the Olympics footage aspect, can't see why they're not sharing the footage on their own site like FIFA does? Since the national federations handle the insurance costs, can't see why the NHL should get money for that either?

There's also zero chance of a World Cup held over Christmas period, players and leagues value the holiday far too much, so that question is irrelevant. People in Europe aren't going to flock to hockey games over that period, it's already been proven with the WJC.

 

[wjhl2009fan]

Well first of all I haven't commented on this compensation aspect yet but since no other sports league gets compensation, why should the NHL? If the IOC did that, the other sports would soon raise their voices and the IOC are not going to risk it. I do think that IOC is far too strict on the Olympics footage aspect, can't see why they're not sharing the footage on their own site like FIFA does? Since the national federations handle the insurance costs, can't see why the NHL should get money for that either?

There's also zero chance of a World Cup held over Christmas period, players and leagues value the holiday far too much, so that question is irrelevant. People in Europe aren't going to flock to hockey games over that period, it's already been proven with the WJC.

Yes but the spengler cup does very well attendance wise.

 

[Fugu]

Well first of all I haven't commented on this compensation aspect yet but since no other sports league gets compensation, why should the NHL? If the IOC did that, the other sports would soon raise their voices and the IOC are not going to risk it. I do think that IOC is far too strict on the Olympics footage aspect, can't see why they're not sharing the footage on their own site like FIFA does? Since the national federations handle the insurance costs, can't see why the NHL should get money for that either?

There's also zero chance of a World Cup held over Christmas period, players and leagues value the holiday far too much, so that question is irrelevant. People in Europe aren't going to flock to hockey games over that period, it's already been proven with the WJC.

1. Does any other major league shut down in order to accommodate the Olympics?

2. I think it's valid that others would also want a share if there were outright sharing. Honestly, I think the NHL isn't really after a cut of the their pie, but the rights to the broadcast/digital media for use afterwards.

 

[Killion]

The relative value of the Olympics is being ignored by the pro-Olympics crowd. It's categorized as the ultimate sporting event for all sports. Except, upon closer and more careful observation, we find the Olympic Gold <<<<<<<<<<< World's Favorite Sport, independently run......How do you pitch the Olympics as the absolute pinnacle of sports when the reality is things are a bit more checkered? Do you ignore that the NHL has only participated in four Olympic events, out of a possible 21? Both entities have survived without the other for a very long time.

Exactly. I admire the Olympic ideals & movement, however, BIG however, its' long since lost its way IMO. Theirs a huge difference between what can honestly be termed the "worlds ultimate sporting event" between the Summer (excluding soccer) and Winter Games, the latter enjoyed by far fewer and only the wealthiest nations on the planet. They need the NHL's participation far more than the NHL needs them. The timings' good, its a big deal for the players & fans, but like most things business related to the IOC, its completely one-sided. The IOC subscribes to the same philosophy that many elected & unelected officials subscribe to; "I'm entitled to my entitlements". Well guess what?, their not. Pay the Piper.

Thing is, they wont, because they cant, as Jussi points out.... Precedent. The International Skiing, Curling, Figure Skating etc etc etc Federation's would be lining up behind Bettman and Medvedev with their hands out as well. If you make an exception for the NHL/KHL then you'd have to make it equitable for all, which is precisely why it'll never happen, and precisely why I advocate for opting out of the Olympics altogether. The costs to participate dont equal the benefits for a sophisticated professional sport like hockey, when the alternative, a re-birth of the Canada Cup or some other such event every 2-3-4yrs would be far more beneficial on every level.

 

[AllByDesign]

Killion, do you really believe precedence is the only motivator? I sense a true apathy towards the inclusion of NHL players. Is it a benefit? Sure it is. Is it a detriment? Not in the least. Countries will still ice teams. Viewers interested in watching the event will watch.

I have no idea if the skiers that race down the hill 4 at a time are the absolute best in the world or not, but I was glued to the TV for those events in the most recent Olympics. They could have had 4 beginners and I still would have watched with as much (if not more) intent.

Since we are all hockey enthusiasts it makes sense the we would prefer to watch Sidney Crosby over Glen Metropolit, but the average Olympic viewer won't notice the difference. Quite frankly I miss the days when you would watch the National teams play full of unknown journeymen and upcoming prospects.

 

[Killion]

Killion, do you really believe precedence is the only motivator? I sense a true apathy towards the inclusion of NHL players. Is it a benefit? Sure it is. Is it a detriment? Not in the least. Countries will still ice teams. Viewers interested in watching the event will watch.

Yepp, the precedence, the money, and all the rest of the sports federations lining up Winter & Summer for a slice of the pie. Would it be a detriment to the Olympics in not having the cream of the crop from the NHL&KHL not in attendance?. Yepp. The precedence (last 4 games) has been set, the bars been raised. The IOC sells the gakmes as "the best atheletes in the world". Gone are the days of the amazing & fantastical Miracle on Ice in 1980, no-names taking on the powerhouse Soviets & winning Gold. The Whitby Dunlops or Trail Smoke Eaters, amateurs & minor leaguer's enjoying their shots at immortality & proudly playing for King & Country. Sure, people who have been exposed to the game, are fans, the real ones, will tune in & watch, & probably some who wouldnt know hockey from hai lai, but it wouldnt create the buzz, the hype the IOC & host nations now demand, nor would it command the same revenues from broadcasters, sponsors, tickets...... I say, stomp on this bug after Sochi & move on.... Let the Motts Clamatos from Flamborough or Lac du Bonnet Blues from the Seniors go over & kick some butt. Or squads of recently retired pro's....

 

[Theokritos]

1. Does any other major league shut down in order to accommodate the Olympics?

KHL from 2/7-3/3 2010, Elitserien from 2/8-2/27 2010... I never heard them complain.

 

[Fugu]

KHL from 2/7-3/3 2010, Elitserien from 2/8-2/27 2010... I never heard them complain.

How long has the KHL been in existence?

How much money does the Russian broadcaster pay to carry the games in Russia?


And when I said "major" I did mean major. Sorry, but when the majority of players are coming from the NHL for any country that's going to have any shot at competing for a medal, the others really aren't on the same playing field. The NHL salaries of one of those teams probably is greater than the other leagues' combined contribution.

 

[Fugu]

Exactly. I admire the Olympic ideals & movement, however, BIG however, its' long since lost its way IMO. Theirs a huge difference between what can honestly be termed the "worlds ultimate sporting event" between the Summer (excluding soccer) and Winter Games, the latter enjoyed by far fewer and only the wealthiest nations on the planet. They need the NHL's participation far more than the NHL needs them. The timings' good, its a big deal for the players & fans, but like most things business related to the IOC, its completely one-sided. The IOC subscribes to the same philosophy that many elected & unelected officials subscribe to; "I'm entitled to my entitlements". Well guess what?, their not. Pay the Piper.

Thing is, they wont, because they cant, as Jussi points out.... Precedent. The International Skiing, Curling, Figure Skating etc etc etc Federation's would be lining up behind Bettman and Medvedev with their hands out as well. If you make an exception for the NHL/KHL then you'd have to make it equitable for all, which is precisely why it'll never happen, and precisely why I advocate for opting out of the Olympics altogether. The costs to participate dont equal the benefits for a sophisticated professional sport like hockey, when the alternative, a re-birth of the Canada Cup or some other such event every 2-3-4yrs would be far more beneficial on every level.

Like I said, it's been four Olympics in total over the history of the event. The NHL will do just fine without participating. I never accepted that this event somehow became the ultimate award for excellence in hockey after only four tourneys. Not only is it a round-robin, but the disparity between the superpowers of the sport and everyone else is beyond ridiculous.

Given how much hockey fans love enforced parity, you'd think they'd recognize the Olympic event as being a charade for pure competition.

 

[Jussi]

Yes but the spengler cup does very well attendance wise.

Because it has a "little" bit history and is always staged at the same place, Davos. And it gets hardly any coverage in Finland, unless a Finnish team is participating, which is impossible these days because SM-liiga does not have a break between Christmas and New Year.

 

[Jussi]

How long has the KHL been in existence?

Pretty much Euro leagues shut down fro the duration of the Olympics.

And btw, hockey is NOT the biggest sports in the Olympics. Everybody knows that figure skating gets the biggest ratings worldwide, not the hockey games.

 

[mobilus]

If the NHL owners really wanted to play hardball, they could host a World Cup every four years during the two weeks of the winter Olympics. Shut the NHL down at the same time... they'd control all telecasts and rights, keep the profits and screw the IOC out of some of their broadcast audience.

 

[Killion]

Given how much hockey fans love enforced parity, you'd think they'd recognize the Olympic event as being a charade for pure competition.

Like Womens Hockey?. One-sided lop-sided basketball scores until the inevitable main event, Team USA vs. Team Canada. Where's the "Glory of the Games" in hammering your opponent 19-3, 24-0?.

 

[Confucius]

Pretty much Euro leagues shut down fro the duration of the Olympics.

And btw, hockey is NOT the biggest sports in the Olympics. Everybody knows that figure skating gets the biggest ratings worldwide, not the hockey games.

I'd agree with that and it wouldn't surprise me that the downhill skiing events were 2nd.