Internal Cap/Budget Teams

HolyCrap

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Oct 2, 2015
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It saved the league. So frustrating to see big market teams just buying all the top talent from other teams.

You do realize without the big market teams there is no small market teams right? I’m not sure you understand how this works.
 

SotasicA

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Aug 25, 2014
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You do realize without the big market teams there is no small market teams right? I’m not sure you understand how this works.
Not sure what your point is. Removing the salary cap would also eliminate the small market teams like Pittsburgh, Edmonton and Winnipeg. Is that what you want?
 

Balance

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May 20, 2013
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Not sure what your point is. Removing the salary cap would also eliminate the small market teams like Pittsburgh, Edmonton and Winnipeg. Is that what you want?

Amazing how all three had teams when there was no salary cap
 

supsens

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Ottawa has suffered being a donation box to two broke ownership groups,first was Bryden now its EM,the team has never not had a joke of a budget to work with....Both groups claim it the fanbase,yet its more than obvious it has been owners with no money....

We have likely drafted and developed a cup team multiple times, unfortunately when you cant spend you can never realise their potential....As a fan since day 1 I can tell you it has been upsetting to say the least,but the fans in this city have shown up to say enough is enough...And wont put up with this garbage anymore.......... EM OUT!!!!!!!

They have a cap floor set where they expect the poorer teams to be. And yes it's the market, that includes corporate support and the size of a fan base willing to spend money.
Toronto and Edmonton missed the playoffs forever and have no problem selling tickets the Sens miss once then have an empty rink with half price tickets.
We demand an owner that will lose money hand over fist or we won't go!
It won't be a big suprise if the NHL splits town once that tv contract is done.Weird complex that a cheap ass fanbase in a smaller market wont accept a small market payroll.
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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Not sure what your point is. Removing the salary cap would also eliminate the small market teams like Pittsburgh, Edmonton and Winnipeg. Is that what you want?
Pitt isn't a small market unless you think the bottom 15 or so teams of the league are small markets. They had arena issues. Its one of those cities that is big enough for an NBA or NHL team but not both (Milwaukee, St Louis, Nashville, Memphis, Orlando, Tampa, etc).

Removing the salary cap, while also removing the cap floor probably wouldn't harm many teams. Owners just love the cap because it somewhat caps what they spend and therefore makes the rich teams significantly more profitable.

The 2005 CBA helped the small market teams more due to revenue-sharing than it did due to the cap.
 
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supsens

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Pitt isn't a small market unless you think the bottom 15 or so teams of the league are small markets. They had arena issues. Its one of those cities that is big enough for an NBA or NHL team but not both (Milwaukee, St Louis, Nashville, Memphis, Orlando, Tampa, etc).

Removing the salary cap, while also removing the cap floor probably wouldn't harm many teams. Owners just love the cap because it somewhat caps what they spend and therefore makes the rich teams significantly more profitable.

The 2005 CBA helped the small market teams more due to revenue-sharing than it did due to the cap.

When all the stars are on 5 or 6 teams and 20 teams have zero chance of competing the fans and add money would dry up for many teams. The player contracts would skyrocket.The cap had way more of an impact than you think.
 

93LEAFS

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Sure, and you wind-up like MLB where the Yankees and the Redsox buy all the talent and 3/4th of the teams are uncompetitive. Outside of Boston and New York, teams struggle to sell tickets.
Pretty sure the MLB has had the most variety in World Series winners of any of the Big 4 leagues in recent years. It's the only one of the big 4 North American sports to have 5 different champions in the last 5 years both the NBA and NFL have teams that account for 3 of the titles, and the NHL has Pitt repeating, plus Chicago and LA who have won 2 and 1 other in the last decade. Baseball is arguably the most competitive league.
 

93LEAFS

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When all the stars are on 5 or 6 teams and 20 teams have zero chance of competing the fans and add money would dry up for many teams. The player contracts would skyrocket.The cap had way more of an impact than you think.
It depends on when players reach UFA. Which was changed due to the implementation of the cap.

Two of the most dominant team's pre-salary cap were the Devils and Avs, who aren't big market teams. The last cup was played between 2 small market teams. Its arguable post-lockout the bigger market teams have won more than any other era since the '60s and 70's considering LA and Chicago account for 5 of the recent cups, Boston has another and Washington has another.
 

supsens

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It depends on when players reach UFA. Which was changed due to the implementation of the cap.

Two of the most dominant team's pre-salary cap were the Devils and Avs, who aren't big market teams. The last cup was played between 2 small market teams. Its arguable post-lockout the bigger market teams have won more than any other era since the '60s and 70's considering LA and Chicago account for 5 of the recent cups, Boston has another and Washington has another.

And NJ almost whent bankrupt and was looking at relocation from all this success .Jets and quebec ran off the sens went bankrupt.
 

supsens

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Except your argument was that they wouldn't show up because they weren't capable of winning. They were clearly capable of winning.

No my argument was they could not afford players or survive in a capless NHL
 

93LEAFS

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No my argument was they could not afford players or survive in a capless NHL
No, you said the reason for that was because they couldn't win with an uncapped world, which would lead to fans being apathetic and not showing up. Well, they were winning. They also never seriously looked at relocation after they won their first cup.
 

supsens

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No, you said the reason for that was because they couldn't win with an uncapped world, which would lead to fans being apathetic and not showing up. Well, they were winning. They also never seriously looked at relocation after they won their first cup.

Why don't you read everythin I wrote instead of picking one small part of what I wrote? Your going to pretend I wrote nothing about salaries? Or your going to pretend a lot of NHL teams were not going under? Or you just going to pretend struggling teams don't make less money? And yes they seriously looked at moving. Saying they didnt is false. You can try google and have a read. Sooo close.
 

93LEAFS

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Why don't you read everythin I wrote instead of picking one small part of what I wrote? Your going to pretend I wrote nothing about salaries? Or your going to pretend a lot of NHL teams were not going under? Or you just going to pretend struggling teams don't make less money? And yes they seriously looked at moving. Saying they didnt is false. You can try google and have a read. Sooo close.
I said they didn't look at moving post 1995 cup. You are talking about the potential move to Nashville.

I'm picking at that point because it is what you built your premise around. Your first point was all elite ufa players would go to 6 teams making teams that aren't those 6 teams capable of winning. Which was shown to be false, considering it seems big-market teams have done better under the cap than in any previous era considering that Boston, Washington, Chicago and LA account for half the cups since the full-season lockout.

Teams are still struggling under the cap. It didn't stop it, and we never had a league with as much revenue sharing as we have now in an uncapped world. Revenue sharing has been a bigger boon to small market teams than the cap has. Which is what you originally responded too.
 

supsens

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I said they didn't look at moving post 1995 cup. You are talking about the potential move to Nashville.

I'm picking at that point because it is what you built your premise around. Your first point was all elite ufa players would go to 6 teams making teams that aren't those 6 teams capable of winning. Which was shown to be false, considering it seems big-market teams have done better under the cap than in any previous era considering that Boston, Washington, Chicago and LA account for half the cups since the full-season lockout.

Teams are still struggling under the cap. It didn't stop it, and we never had a league with as much revenue sharing as we have now in an uncapped world. Revenue sharing has been a bigger boon to small market teams than the cap has. Which is what you originally responded too.

No I listed it as one factor. And if you think a team reciving 4 million saved the NHL your mistaken.
 

Bleedred

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Dallas, New Jersey, Nasvhille and Florida are not budget teams AFAIK.

Ottawa, Arizona & Anaheim definitely have internal caps, Carolina i'm not 100% sure about but I think their owner is committed to spending whatever is necessary to win.
Florida did have an internal budget the last few years, but the Quenneville hiring seems to signal that ownership is ready to stop being cheap, so let's see if they do it on the ice as well. I don't really trust Tallon though. Last time ownership allowed him to spend money was right after they bought the team and he was signing bums like Dave Bolland to stupid contracts and Ed Jovanovski's cremated remains (that was before current ownership though), as well as a few other names that should be too embarrassing to even mention.

I'm not sure of Nashville's current status. They've definitely been a budget team before, but it doesn't seem like they are right now. Same with Dallas.

New Jersey is just rebuilding. For a year or two before new ownership bought the team, they were definitely on a budget, but because of ownership problems. Josh Harris came in and allowed Lou to spend to the cap their first two years here, but the team was failing anyway, so Lou got ousted and the rebuild began. For what it's worth, New Jersey does stay at 5 star hotels on the road (many teams will only stay at 4 star hotels) when in a city that has one. I don't think they're as cheap as even many of our own fanbase has accused them of being. Most teams aren't gonna spend money just to spend money while they're rebuilding.
 

Bleedred

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Carolina was a budget team for years under Karmanos. Karmanos was a notorious cheapster of the highest kind. Probably the cheapest owner for a while, but Dundon seems to be committed to spending whatever is necessary, so I'd expect them to be more of a spender than they were in the Karmonos era. And now that they've made the playoffs and at the very least had a playoff series where they gave the defending champions a pretty good challenge, combined with better ownership, I'd expect it will only help steer players towards wanting to sign there or waiving their NTC to be traded there.
 

Martin Skoula

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Oct 18, 2017
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Is that including a whole bunch of fake hits that they aren’t paying?

Not counting fake contracts and LTIR/retention, their on ice roster cost less than the cap floor for a few seasons. Not sure if this one was, but I wouldn't be surprised.
 

topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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They have a cap floor set where they expect the poorer teams to be. And yes it's the market, that includes corporate support and the size of a fan base willing to spend money.
Toronto and Edmonton missed the playoffs forever and have no problem selling tickets the Sens miss once then have an empty rink with half price tickets.
We demand an owner that will lose money hand over fist or we won't go!
It won't be a big suprise if the NHL splits town once that tv contract is done.Weird complex that a cheap ass fanbase in a smaller market wont accept a small market payroll.
Lol ,want to bet??
 

CB Joe

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Oct 12, 2008
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Pretty sure the Avs have an internal cap but spend when they think the team can be competitive.
 

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