Interesting Umberger article

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Jacob, Jan 14, 2004.

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  1. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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  2. Peter Griffin

    Peter Griffin Registered User

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    This really changes my view on the Umberger situation. Where does Umberger get off complaining that the Canucks didn't start contract negotiations with him until August?

    ""The whole offseason I was last on their list," he said. "I didn't get an offer until August. You don't treat former first-round picks like that." "

    The Canucks are a cup contending team, they aren't going to concern themselves with signing their prospects. Umberger, YOU ARE THE TEAM'S LAST PRIORITY.

    ""Everybody says I'm crazy, that I should just take the money, but I'll get it now or in June (when he would become an unrestricted free agent)."

    Don't be so sure about that R.J. With the uncertainty of the new CBA looming, I doubt teams will jump on the chance to sign players to their first pro contracts. If anything is changed in the new CBA it will be the ammount of money and options players will receive with their first contracts, the young guys will definitely pay the price. If Umberger goes to UFA, he may be in for a long wait until a team signs him...
     
  3. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    I don't see what the big deal with the money difference is for Umberger. He's going to play out most (if not all) of his first pro contract on a minor league salary anyway.

    When did they sign Kesler?


    Regardless of this fiasco, I want the Pens to sign him.
     
  4. Peter Griffin

    Peter Griffin Registered User

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    No kidding. When you're a 1st round pick of a top team, you don't dicker around about a bit of cash, likely of which you're not going to see. Obviously the contract was good enough for Ryan Kesler, I don't see why Umberger feels he deserves more. I really think Umberger is shooting himself in the foot here...

    August 18th, to the first offer the Canucks made I believe. Umberger was a offered a contract first, as I remember that most Canucks fans were shocked to hear that Kesler signed opposed to Umberger(we all thought Umberger would sign and Kesler would spend another year at Ohio State). Kesler was extemely enthusiastic to start his pro career with the Canucks. To me, it seems that Umberger never really had intentions of signing with the Canucks, unless he cashed in.
     
  5. Waveburner

    Waveburner Registered User

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    He may get slightly less than he is thinking right now-but I can't see teams passing up an opportunity to sign a free asset with top line upside. If he doesn't make the team he is on a 2-way AHL deal anyways. Burke picked an idiotic time to play hardball. If Umberger pans out, Burke looks ridiculous.
     
  6. CFABoy

    CFABoy Registered User

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    There's always two sides of the story. If Brian Burke wants to low ball Umberger with a deal paying less than Kesler, its a slap in RJ's face. RJ is a couple of years older and was Kesler's mentor in college and led the team in offense and play. He was a finalist to the Hoby award. And you know what, both the Canucks and RJ will do fine - sometimes things aren't meant to be. It could come back to bite either side in the but - RJ may outperform on a division rival and make Burke look silly, or he can be a total bust and we'll never hear from him again. Personally, I think RJ will do just fine , if a lock out occurs, he could play in the AHL next year after signing with a team.
     
  7. Peter Griffin

    Peter Griffin Registered User

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    Depends, what is Umberger asking for? In any case, reading that article, it seems that Umberger has quite the chip on the shoulder, feeling that everything should revolve around him. The Canucks don't need a player like that on their team(if that is how he is) and they especially don't need to overpay one. I'll be content to watch Umberger become a UFA at season's end. If he signs with a team, good for him, the Canucks will get a mid 2nd round pick in the 2005 draft as compensation from the NHL. If team's pass on him deciding to wait until the CBA is resolved(how many teams are going to sign players this offseason?), possibly resulting in a new CBA that favours the teams and not the rookie players, I'll be even happier.
     
  8. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    You will probably find its agent driven as much as anything. Agent keeps telling him to hold out because XYZ got this much, so should you. After a while he starts believing it.

    I get the feeling that Burke likes Kesler more than Umberger, simple as that. Thats why he offered Kesler that little bit more.
     
  9. PigPen

    PigPen Registered User

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    Think it might have something to do with attitude?
     
  10. Sammy*

    Sammy* Guest

    No kidding. Right or wrong , the guy seems like a real peckerhead based on this article.
     
  11. Reign Nateo

    Reign Nateo Registered User

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    If you rub Burke the wrong way you don't get a contract. It's harsh at times, but that's the way it goes. I can now see why Burke didn't give him the contract he wanted, this kid's head is the size of a hot air balloon, and composed of apparently the same matter.

    I have a feeling this kid will rot late into the summer as no one will give him the money he wants right away. I have always been intrigued with his talent and size, but I can't see this kid ever playing a game for the Canucks, and frankly I don't care. Our team is built on an all-for-one mentality, not all-for-me.
     
  12. Burke's Evil Spirit

    Burke's Evil Spirit Registered User

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    Like, the week before rookie camp. It took *everyone* by surprise.

    Edit: August 18th. A little more than a week. Still, pretty late.
     
  13. shveik

    shveik Registered User

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    He does come across as having a rather big ego. The question is whether he has the talent to match it. But it is hard to deny that canucks offer being lower than Kesler's is a slap in the face. I can see how RJ being the senior guy and having a larger role on the university team can think that he is better than Kesler. So from his pov it's either biting the bullet, signing the offer and trying to prove himself in the organization that already doesn't think too high of him, or try his luck elsewhere.
     
  14. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

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    I don't think it's so much ego, but rather hurt feelings. All summer long, in repeated interviews, there was no ego or attitude. The guy was gung ho, wanting to get signed, get to camp, try and make the team, but get his pro career started regardless.

    And then you wait, and nothing is happening, so you get frustrated. It's your first contract, so you don't know all the ins and outs of what gets done when. Then the contract offer finally comes in, and it's lower than pretty much every other offer for guys in your draft class. Then your teammate, the guy you mentored who wasn't as good as you signs for a better contract than the one you got offered. Then the GM starts badmouthing you in the press, calling your talent, desire and work ethic into question.

    I think it's perfectly understandable that he feels bitter. Some of it is his own fault, but not all. I don't think he's been treated that great by the Canucks.
     
  15. AJ1982

    AJ1982 Registered User

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    I think umberger is right. He deserves to be paid more than Kesler. Umberger is a top notch talent and so is Kesler. However, Umberger is further along in his development and was a star in the college ranks while having top line potential. Kesler has top line potential but right now RJ is better, RJ was the leader of Ohio State, so he ought to be paid at least as much as Kesler if not more. The fact is Burke low balled Umberger, and maybe he had to because he signed Kesler so early. Even so, that's not going to sit well with a guy that has been told by Vancouver all along that he had a great future with the club and was a priority of their's. That's especially not going to go over well when the guy is from college and had to give up his rights to play in the NCAA to get an agent. I don't blame RJ at all for being bitter at this point. He ought to be pissed.

    Figure I might as well justify my argument even more.

    Here.

    Kesler, 6'2, 195 lbs, born 8/31/1984, Center, drafted 23rd ova.

    stats

    2001-02 Team USA USHL 13 5 5 10 10
    2002-03 Ohio State CCHA 40 11 20 31 44

    Umberger, 6'2, 200 lbs, born 5/3/1982, Center, drafted 16th ova.

    1998-99 Team USA USDP 50 29 29 58 -
    1999-2000 Team USA USDP 57 33 35 68 20
    2000-01 Ohio State CCHA 32 14 23 37 18
    2001-02 Ohio State CCHA 37 18 21 39 31
    2002-03 Ohio State CCHA 43 26 27 53 16


    So why should Umberger accept a lesser or equivalent contract as Kesler?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2004
  16. Street Hawk

    Street Hawk Registered User

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    Doesn't help a team who thinks its a contender

    Peter, fellow Nuck fan here, but I do have to disagree with you on Burke's handling of the situation.

    Burke has to deal with "market" factors, in addition to his own budget for the team. It's fine that he feels that RJ should sign a similar deal that Kesler got. I have no problem with that. But, the market does come into play here. Guys like Hemsky, Sjostrom, Kobasew, Morrison, Coliacocvo, Kynezev have all signed pro contracts, so RJ's deal needs to be in that range as well. Those were the "teen" picks in the 2001 draft.

    Look at the Bertuzzi signing. If he went only by Naslund as a comparable, Bert wouldn't have gotten a contract worth more than what Naslund would make. Same has to happen for Umberger. He showed really no improvement in his sophomore year, but had a great improvement in his junior year.

    As for him possibly being greedy, I don't see it that way. He feels that his development warrants a contract similar to those of his peers, which in this case is the 2001 draftees from #14-19. Something around that range would be fair.

    As for Asset Management, poor asset management on the part of Burke. RJ, as an asset now is that of a 2nd round pick, unless RJ signs with a team that Burke trades him to before the deadline. If a 2004 2nd rounder is so great, why did we move one for a 1 year backup goalie in Hedberg. Why not just deal Umberger for him?

    RJ will get signed in the summer. The team will stick him in the AHL next season. He'll need to get the rust off from not playing this year.

    I was holding out hope of signing the kid until the end of November, at which point I have up and accepted the fact that he was going to go.
     
  17. Blane Youngblood

    Blane Youngblood Registered User

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    I believe that Kesler's agent approached the Canucks with an offer first, that's why he was signed first. Also, doesn't the difference in signing bonuses get made up in the later years of the contract? Sorry if any of this is wrong but I didn't re-read the article or any of the previous posts.
     
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