Injury Report: Injury updates (Mantha out another month, Green a few weeks)

[MBH]

Mantha's injury could be a blessing in disguise. Will push the cost down, if he's willing to sign long-term I think we could get a complete steal of a deal. His inability to stay healthy is somewhat concerning but he's not getting the type of injuries that should impact his play going forward.


Some people think the entire roster needs to be U23 when we start getting good.

Yeah.
Take a look at the St. Louis team that won. Or the Washington team that won. Or the Pittsburgh team that won.
Plenty of forwards in their late 20s and early 30s.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah.
Take a look at the St. Louis team that won. Or the Washington team that won. Or the Pittsburgh team that won.
Plenty of forwards in their late 20s and early 30s.

Or you just look at Detroit's history. Why would you insist on looking externally when we literally had at least 20 years of being the premier franchise in hockey? Age really doesn't matter if those aged players are elite.

Give me 35 year old Nick Lidstrom for a five year period over literally ANY defenseman in the modern era. Yes, this includes Rasmus Dahlin, Cale Makar, John Klingberg, or any defenseman you want. You can't fill the roster with just guys that age and salary, but there is literally no reason to insist on having a 25 year old just because he's a 25 year old if the older player is great.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Mantha doesn't have to fight. One fighting injury, could be fluky. Two fighting injuries, not the best, but it happens. Three fighting injuries and you should know better.

I don't buy this crap about "protecting the team." There's no way Mantha is willing to piss away millions just to make his teammates feel safer (at least until he's out of the lineup, in which case they would be unsafe again...). This is just poor judgment and impulse control on his part. Him fighting hurts the team a lot more than it helps it. If anything, his teammates should want him to stop.

To be fair, the third one was not like the first two. A "rib type injury" as it was described in the past; did he break a few ribs and is dealing with like a stabbing pain when he exerts a lot of effort? Did he bruise a lung and can't put out effort because his breathing is effected? It's a weird one. One that shouldn't have happened, and one that the league should have at a bare minimum should have acknowledged and addressed immediately. Even if they didn't want to punish Muzzin, they should have made it clear that moving forward any kind of lift and slam is unacceptable. I mean for f***s sake, even the NFL doesn't allow tackling that resembles a wrestling throw.

 

[MBH]

Or you just look at Detroit's history. Why would you insist on looking externally when we literally had at least 20 years of being the premier franchise in hockey? Age really doesn't matter if those aged players are elite.

Give me 35 year old Nick Lidstrom for a five year period over literally ANY defenseman in the modern era. Yes, this includes Rasmus Dahlin, Cale Makar, John Klingberg, or any defenseman you want. You can't fill the roster with just guys that age and salary, but there is literally no reason to insist on having a 25 year old just because he's a 25 year old if the older player is great.

Well, I didn't want to invite the "game is faster" or "young man's game" arguments by going back a decade.
But you're right.
I think trading AA or Mantha or Fabbri is probably a wise move if you can get value (more than hit or miss freakin' draft pick), because with 3-4 years from now, we could a lot of wingers. And because wingers are easier to replace.
Problem is, AA and Mantha aren't exactly great values right now.
Might as well hold onto them, build their value and decide what you need to do then. Because if Svech never makes it, if Berggren is too injury prone... maybe having a top 9 with Bert-Mantha-Zadina-AA-Fabbri-Rasmussen isn't so crazy.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Mantha's injury could be a blessing in disguise. Will push the cost down, if he's willing to sign long-term I think we could get a complete steal of a deal. His inability to stay healthy is somewhat concerning but he's not getting the type of injuries that should impact his play going forward.


Some people think the entire roster needs to be U23 when we start getting good.

I've said this exact thing a few times, glad others see it. Though I've changed my stance on term, Bert-$5/6yrs, Mantha $5.25/4-5yrs, AA $4-4.5/2-3yrs, trade AA when he regains value/form. Fabbri $3-3.5/5yrs.

Edit: If Mantha misses the rest of the season then $4.5-4.9m/3-4yrs.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

I lasted the dead wings era but these games I don’t know if I can stick out the rest of the season

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

So whenever there's a clean hit on a Red Wing someone needs to hustle to the hitter and start a fight before Mantha can get there?

These guys should be sticking up for each other more instead of looking dead and passive like they do

 

[roman star]

muzzin using big time wrestling body slam moves on an ice rink and bettmans idiot crew act like theres nothing wrong with it . thats what happens when you make a rat lawyer nhl commisioner

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

These guys should be sticking up for each other more instead of looking dead and passive like they do

Or they just ****ing play hockey and don't get caught up in the "I gotta stick up for this guy". Mantha shouldn't be fighting anyone. Did Z? Did Pavs? Did Yzerman? This is another area where you need to have Larkin go to him and say "Mo, I like the fire in going to fight someone... but you're a good player. We need you to be playing hockey, not sitting injured." Guys like Mantha, Larkin, etc. should know that their value is in playing the game and not standing up for a hit they don't like. I'm not saying be a little ***** or shy away or cower from a physical confrontation, but you shouldn't be the guy answering the bell as a fighter if you're Mantha. You have to be smarter than that. Teams are gonna try to bait him and if they can get him to hurt himself by going punchy punch, that's a win for them. If they can get him off the ice for 5 minutes+, that's a win for them.

E: I'd rather have a team like the 80s Oilers where their real "enforcer" was the fact they'd score 2-3 times on a penalty if you got a major. They had the Marty McSorely types that kept a fly or two off Gretzky, but the bigger deterrent was they were just better at hockey than you. Sure, I like fights as much as the next guy... but in my view, with the advent of the cap and increase in parity, you need those roster spots to have good hockey players in them instead of knuckle-dragging neaderthals. Basically meaning a guy like Probert would/should still have a job if he were around today because he could man a top 6 spot, but Stu Grimson, Brad May, Aaron Downey? You don't need those guys anymore.

 

[Red Stanley]

To be fair, the third one was not like the first two. A "rib type injury" as it was described in the past; did he break a few ribs and is dealing with like a stabbing pain when he exerts a lot of effort? Did he bruise a lung and can't put out effort because his breathing is effected? It's a weird one. One that shouldn't have happened, and one that the league should have at a bare minimum should have acknowledged and addressed immediately. Even if they didn't want to punish Muzzin, they should have made it clear that moving forward any kind of lift and slam is unacceptable. I mean for ****s sake, even the NFL doesn't allow tackling that resembles a wrestling throw.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Meh... Mantha should have one more fight if he is back on April 2nd... I don't think he needs to do it and I get those telling him to never do it, but I think it is a part of his game, you just have to hope for better luck in that department.

Is what it is. Still floored the league signed off on that, hopefully for Toronto fans nobody is hurt badly in the final meeting, but I am all for exacting a pound of flesh for that whole ordeal.

The Wings are building a mean team, they are going to add more skill to it. But those are our foundation pieces already in place. I like it since it still very much matters in the post-season in my opinion. So I don't think you run from this, certainly I would prefer to see others, but I am not going to say never again, especially when a freaking body slam isn't something that should have been allowed and with no response from DOPS absolutely deserves to be righted the next time we see Muzzin.

Larks, Bertuzzi, Seider, Mantha, Hronek all have jam and that is a good thing. Ras, Veleno, Smith all have huge compete levels. Zadina isn't afraid of it either in my opinion. I like that in hockey players still, there is a place for it. Injuries will happen, but I think in a couple years here when we start trending up we will have a lot of guys that play on their front foot with fast forechecking hockey and I like watching that and hope we see it sooner rather than later. For the record both Lafreniere and Byfield fit this group if we do wind up with one of those two. Raymond and Stutzle push the pace and could provide more skill, just the front two double down on that big boy hockey style in my opinion.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

To be fair, the third one was not like the first two. A "rib type injury" as it was described in the past; did he break a few ribs and is dealing with like a stabbing pain when he exerts a lot of effort? Did he bruise a lung and can't put out effort because his breathing is effected? It's a weird one. One that shouldn't have happened, and one that the league should have at a bare minimum should have acknowledged and addressed immediately. Even if they didn't want to punish Muzzin, they should have made it clear that moving forward any kind of lift and slam is unacceptable. I mean for ****s sake, even the NFL doesn't allow tackling that resembles a wrestling throw.

If I had to guess. I think he separated the cartilage between his ribs. It’s pretty painful and hurts to breathe. Had me out for a month. And I wasn’t playing pro hockey everyday.

I think this because of the way he fell. It didn’t look like you could break a rib. But any twisting motion while exerting force can cause the separation. I don’t like to admit it but I did it by sneezing awkwardly lol. Twisting to the side as to not sneeze on the person in front of me.

 

[Red Stanley]

muzzin using big time wrestling body slam moves on an ice rink and bettmans idiot crew act like theres nothing wrong with it . thats what happens when you make a rat lawyer nhl commisioner

My hatred for Bettman burns with the power of a thousand suns. Choose any one of them to fire him into.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Can Detroit get Witkowski back?

Or call up McIlrath up?

 

[saska sault]

I think we keep Bert, Larkin, Mantha, Hronek... Maybe not cornerstones but very valueable pieces. All young enough to still be solid contributors for up to 7 years, if not more. Not like they have long playoff runs on their legs and bodies.. Low mileage, home grown talent, likely to take low cap hits on RFA contracts... We are bad enough we are going to be getting changing prospects via the draft.


Allow the kids/young men already with us to continue to grow and help turn the tide. AA can be moved, Fabbri can be moved for the right price, anyone really can but Mantha for a late first? Very small chance that player becomes half of what Mantha is.. Mantha isn't entering the twilight anytime soon.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Can Detroit get Witkowski back?

Or call up McIlrath up?

They might have to with Green missing multiple weeks. The McIlrath part, not the Witkowski part. I don’t think you’ll see Witter in the Winged Wheel again.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Or they just ****ing play hockey and don't get caught up in the "I gotta stick up for this guy". Mantha shouldn't be fighting anyone. Did Z? Did Pavs? Did Yzerman? This is another area where you need to have Larkin go to him and say "Mo, I like the fire in going to fight someone... but you're a good player. We need you to be playing hockey, not sitting injured." Guys like Mantha, Larkin, etc. should know that their value is in playing the game and not standing up for a hit they don't like. I'm not saying be a little ***** or shy away or cower from a physical confrontation, but you shouldn't be the guy answering the bell as a fighter if you're Mantha. You have to be smarter than that. Teams are gonna try to bait him and if they can get him to hurt himself by going punchy punch, that's a win for them. If they can get him off the ice for 5 minutes+, that's a win for them.

E: I'd rather have a team like the 80s Oilers where their real "enforcer" was the fact they'd score 2-3 times on a penalty if you got a major. They had the Marty McSorely types that kept a fly or two off Gretzky, but the bigger deterrent was they were just better at hockey than you. Sure, I like fights as much as the next guy... but in my view, with the advent of the cap and increase in parity, you need those roster spots to have good hockey players in them instead of knuckle-dragging neaderthals. Basically meaning a guy like Probert would/should still have a job if he were around today because he could man a top 6 spot, but Stu Grimson, Brad May, Aaron Downey? You don't need those guys anymore.

oh really? So if your teammate is getting pushed around or double teamed you should just stand around?

no wonder our team gets stomped on

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

They might have to with Green missing multiple weeks. The McIlrath part, not the Witkowski part. I don’t think you’ll see Witter in the Winged Wheel again.

Gets injured right around trade deadline time, it’s last season all over again not that he has much value anyways

 

[Hen Kolland]

Gets injured right around trade deadline time, it’s last season all over again not that he has much value anyways

I don’t know what he or Daley could even return right now. I don’t think I’d be interested if I was a contending GM

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

This might be good news. He will command less money this summer...

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah.
Take a look at the St. Louis team that won. Or the Washington team that won. Or the Pittsburgh team that won.
Plenty of forwards in their late 20s and early 30s.

They just resigned Backstrom for 5 more years at $9.5M, age doesn't seem to be a concern there.

Speaking of which, Ovy's main threat is his slapper, and that doesn't age unless you wind up with a shoulder injury (like Mike Green). Hull was also an effective shooter in his mid 30's (not much else though).

So there's no reason to get rid of Mantha since his primary weapon should be effective into his 30's. The only player I am concerned about is AA because his game is built entirely on speed, and that doesn't age well. Larkin is also a bit of a concern, but his contract is relatively cheap, and I'm hoping he gets demoted to 2C eventually anyways. (Meaning I hope we pick a 1C in the draft.)

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I don’t know what he or Daley could even return right now. I don’t think I’d be interested if I was a contending GM

Mid-round picks, fourth or fifth round darts at the wall.

Daley I think will have interest around the league. He has won before, as a 6th/7th D-man on some contender I can see someone thinking it is worth it.

Green at half-off I am not sure what he could get. Vegas is supposedly looking for d help, not sure what happens with him.

 

[Claypool]

Depth defensemen will always be a need at the deadline. Daley will likely fetch a late-round pick. Green, if healthy, could maybe get a 3rd with enough demand.

 

[Winger98]

Yeah, Datsyuk never fought anyone...

 

[Winger98]

and this must have been some other 19...