Information about the relationship between Scotty Bowman and Mario Lemieux...

[jcs0218]

Wasn't it Steve Shutt that said something to the effect of "We all hate Scottie Bowman six days a week and on the seventh I polish my Stanley Cup rings"?

I think it was more like:

"You hated him for 364 days a year. And on the 365th day, you collected your Stanley Cup rings."

The 6 day-7 day analogy works the same way.

 

[jcs0218]

Really? I can't see Bowman standing for that nor Lemueix being that petulant at that stage in his career.

Lemieux was very petulant at that stage, and wanted a "country-club atmosphere" according to many around the team at that time.

 

[jcs0218]

Yeah, the Habs HATED Bowman every day of the year, except the day they hoisted the cup.

I can't recall at the moment which player said that.
.

Steve Shutt said it.

 

[jcs0218]

HHOFers Art Ross, Punch Imlach and Viktor Tikhonov were likewise; in football, Tom Landry and Bill Belichick are similar.

Some of the greatest leaders were tyrants.

Bowman and Belichick are very similar.

Both are the best coaches of all-time in their respective sports.

 

[Pens5Cups]

Lemieux was very petulant at that stage, and wanted a "country-club atmosphere" according to many around the team at that time.

Mario did have plenty of stroke, he was the one that engineered The Zubov for Kevin Hatcher trade.

But the country club atmosphere wasn't just a Mario Lemieux thing it was the entire team. The Colorado Avalanche went through it when they got rid of Bob Hartley because the players didn't like him.

 

[Iapyi]

Interesting how Bowman is revered despite being very similar to guys like Keenan and now Babcock who the media and the masses love to hate.

 

[The Panther]

The Ken Dryden Scotty book had rather dull or non-existent comments by Bowman about most of the great players he's coached, but Mario was an exception in that Scotty's comments were actually interesting.

I'll paraphrase some here (also some comments about the Pens in general):

-- Scotty took the Penguins' job as "director of player personnel" in 1990, offered by Craig Patrick, with the understanding that Johnson was about to be named head coach and that Scotty would still be based in Buffalo. He'd drive 3.5 hours to Pittsburgh to their home games, and go to some Great Lakes' area games, but he'd only rarely go to the east coast and never to the west coast.

-- In 1991, with Johnson ill, Patrick asked Scotty to take over as head coach "on an interim basis". Scotty says he never thought he would coach the whole season.

-- Dryden writes that the Pens played like Scotty was the substitute teacher, and Scotty coached that way as well (because he thought Johnson was coming back soon). Scotty adds that the Pens "were never a big practice team". He says the Pens always wanted to play offence and didn't want to play defence.

-- Scotty says he had a good rapport with Bryan Trottier.

-- Scotty says Jagr, at 19, was "very moody" and always worried about his ice time.

-- Scotty has positive comments about Mario, saying that he was mild-mannered and never emotional, and just wanted to do whatever the coach wanted him to do. But Scotty adds that he had to "fit players in to play with him" and that Mario needed lots of ice time, which could be demanding for wingers.

-- Scotty said if Mario was in the line-up, they'd play one way, and if he wasn't they'd play another, which was "tough on the team", especially in the playoffs. Via Dryden's interpretation, Scotty appears to have said that he had learned, over the years, that as coach you adapt to your great players more than they adapt to you.

-- Scotty clearly remembers the first time he saw Mario play: Saturday morning at the Forum, during the 1977-78 season, when Lemieux was 12 (!).

-- Scotty praises Lemieux, in particular, for his play in game 7 of the Washington series in 1992 (after the Pens had been down 1-3 in the series). He says, "I'd never seen him play defensive hockey before -- play without the puck."


Unfortunately, Dryden/Bowman do not comment specifically about the Pens' 1993 loss to the Islanders in the book. Dryden just says that trouble began after that loss, regarding Scotty, because Scotty had expected the same deal Bob Johnson had gotten from Craig Patrick as head coach, but then Scotty discovered Johnson had gotten a signing bonus that Bowman didn't receive, and so Bowman "wasn't happy."

 

[Sadekuuro]

Interesting how Bowman is revered despite being very similar to guys like Keenan and now Babcock who the media and the masses love to hate.

As a Wings fan that saw many years under both Bowman and Babcock, there were all kinds of similarities. The main difference was that Bowman already had a pile of Cup rings to back him up, whereas Babcock merely acted as if he did as well -- this was not lost on the players, who were especially unimpressed with his ego after he won gold with Team Canada, secretly referring to him as "Goldcock". He didn't earn their respect like Bowman did.

 

[Iapyi]

As a Wings fan that saw many years under both Bowman and Babcock, there were all kinds of similarities. The main difference was that Bowman already had a pile of Cup rings to back him up, whereas Babcock merely acted as if he did as well -- this was not lost on the players, who were especially unimpressed with his ego after he won gold with Team Canada, secretly referring to him as "Goldcock". He didn't earn their respect like Bowman did.

This makes sense and was how I speculated it played out. Many people are sheeple and just pile on what they hear and read with little or no substance to their beliefs with respect to being able to justify their thoughts.

 

[Kamaya Painters]

Interesting how Bowman is revered despite being very similar to guys like Keenan and now Babcock who the media and the masses love to hate.

That's because Keenan and Babcock copied Bowman.

Several players have said that especially about Keenan.

 

[Fixxer]

Yeah, the Habs HATED Bowman every day of the year, except the day they hoisted the cup.

I can't recall at the moment which player said that.

Even Habs management is on record at disliking him, prompting his exit for Buffalo.

Team Canada also continually panned Bowman, the word being he doesn't play well with others, needs things to be his way.

HHOFers Art Ross, Punch Imlach and Viktor Tikhonov were likewise; in football, Tom Landry and Bill Belichick are similar.

Some of the greatest leaders were tyrants.

Maybe Bowman's time in Buffalo taught him that he couldn't do everything by himself. He had success in Detroit afterward, as he focused on coaching while Ken Holland built the team as the GM (like Pollock did in MTL). Players liked winning, so in the end they liked Bowman. lol

 

[ESH]

This makes sense and was how I speculated it played out. Many people are sheeple and just pile on what they hear and read with little or no substance to their beliefs with respect to being able to justify their thoughts.

This reads as the most hypocritical post I’ve seen on this board

 

[Iapyi]

This reads as the most hypocritical post I’ve seen on this board

Explain if you can. Let's see if I can follow the herd.