Indoor Ice Hockey's birthplace : Halifax or Montreal?

[PrimumHockeyist]

In this era, many people say or believe that Montreal’s Victoria Skating Rink is the literal birthplace of indoor Ice Hockey. It may be. But some say is the oldest indoor skating rink in Canada is shown above, the Halifax Skating Rink (HSR). Here's the venue in question. The three arrows touch its roof.

One well-known HSR supporter is Dr. John Patrick Martin, a well-known historian who spent his life studying things Dartmouth and Halifax. Dr. Martin claims to have directly witnessed 1863 reports of hockey being played at the HSR. The authors of On the Origin of Hockey quote him in the passage below, as did Martin Jones in Hockey’s Home. Unfortunately, I have been unable to obtain Dr. Martin’s primary source.

Now, later on in their book, the authors of On the Origin of Hockey seem to reject Dr. Martin’s claim in the introduction of chapter six:

So, here's what interests me. Three authors of a very well-written book, seem to agree with the assertion that the VSR was the actual birthplace of indoor ice hockey. This certainly seems to be the majority view in 2023. Maybe others know something that eludes me. That said, I would suggest that this is also an era where few hockey fans have never even heard of the Halifax Skating Rink.

Going the other way, we have an honourary Ph.d and career educator-historian saying that he personally witnessed newspaper reports by those who witnessed indoor hockey being played at the HSR as early as 1863. This is about one full decade before James Creighton transferred Halifax ice hockey to Montreal. So, what if hockey historians have looked away from these sources, for about sixty years now, just Dr. Martin said there was no longer anything to look for? What if Dr. Martin's words about the fire were based on some misunderstanding, while his comments on the newspaper contents were correct??

So, I followed up with Nova Scotia Archives on this during the summer. I ahsed what they could tell me about the archives fire of 1960s. They replied by asking for the source material I was basing my query on. I sent them the first of the two quotes above from On the Origin of Hockey.

Here’s Nova Scotia Archive’s reply, which has potentially tectonic implications to our understanding of 19th century Ice Hockey history :

Wed, Aug 30, 2023 at 8:53 AM Nova Scotia Archives <[email protected]> wrote:
“Hello,

Thanks for sending the clipping from the Giden, Houda & Martel book. The source which they are citing (re John Martin) appears to be inaccurate. There was no fire at the Nova Scotia Archives in the 1960’s and newspapers were not lost from the time in question. In fact (using the 1863 date given as a focal point), we continue to have a complete or almost complete run of the following Halifax newspapers from the 1860’s; the Chronicle, Novascotian, Acadian Recorder, Citizen, Evening Reporter, Journal, Sun & the Wesleyan. They are all available onsite in microfilm format for anyone who wishes to use them.” – Reference Team – Nova Scotia Archives

Before anyone gets too excited, I should emphasize that this mystery may have been explored earlier, and resolved in the VSR's favour through showing that there are no references to indoor ice hockey from 1863- to 1871 – the last year we know James Creighton lived in Halifax. If so, I haven't heard about any such investigation.

That's part of the reason why I'm posting this now. I go into this subtopic in more detail in the second of the two "Halifax" essays, which I will soon post to my website. If anybody knows of a study that has involved going to the Nova Scotia Archives, and ruling out daily editions of up to nine papers, for three to four winter months, over eleven years, let me know so I can address and resolve this mystery that way. As for the other big reason why I'm putting this our here separately: I'd gladly do this myself. But BC is too far from the Nova Scotia Archives. And since I consider this to be a matter of potential interest to the story of Ice Hockey in general, I must punt to the general public.

As far as history goes, I see at least three big things in play here.

1 - First, a single 1863-71 reference to indoor hockey will prove that the VSR is not the birthplace of Indoor ice hockey. If it’s there, this will be the first paradigm-altering discovery. It should happen in short order, if the hockey citations are as abundant as Dr. Martin says.

2 - Secondly, the first discovered reference might not prove to be the earliest known reference to indoor Ice Hockey. That’s the second thing.

3 - As for the third, if Dr. Martin is correct, then a gold mine of information may exist at the Nova Scotia archives. It will change by enriching our understanding of Halifax ice hockey, as it was in the years leading up to the time when James Creighton moved to Montreal.

Click to read more...

 

[WhiteTiger]

I have long been fascinated by the purported 1863 games. This year, a group of hockey historians, myself included, checked the Acadian Recorder, Halifax Morning Sun, Halifax British Colonist, Halifax Evening Express, Halifax Morning Chronicle, and Nova Scotian newspapers for January and February 1863, and found no references to hockey games being played on the Horticultural Gardens rink that winter. There were advertisements for skates, mentions of skating and bands playing at the rink, and a report of a cricket match on the ice between the 17th Regiment and the Halifax Cricket Club on the North West Arm, but nothing about hockey.

It’s quite puzzling given Dr. Martin’s claims of games being “regularly reported” in the local press that winter, but we went through six different papers, and came up empty handed. The earliest confirmed reference in a contemporary newspaper of an indoor ice hockey game being played in Halifax wasn’t until 1883.

It’s a shame these papers aren’t digitized. It would make our lives much easier.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

I have long been fascinated by the purported 1863 games. This year, a group of hockey historians, myself included, checked the Acadian Recorder, Halifax Morning Sun, Halifax British Colonist, Halifax Evening Express, Halifax Morning Chronicle, and Nova Scotian newspapers for January and February 1863, and found no references to hockey games being played on the Horticultural Gardens rink that winter. There were advertisements for skates, mentions of skating and bands playing at the rink, and a report of a cricket match on the ice between the 17th Regiment and the Halifax Cricket Club on the North West Arm, but nothing about hockey.

It’s quite puzzling given Dr. Martin’s claims of games being “regularly reported” in the local press that winter, but we went through six different papers, and came up empty handed. The earliest confirmed reference in a contemporary newspaper of an indoor ice hockey game being played in Halifax wasn’t until 1883.

It’s a shame these papers aren’t digitized. It would make our lives much easier.

That's great to know, actually. I had hired somebody to check the Novascotian for Jan and Feb of 1863. My own researcher came back with nothing btw. At that point I figured I had better stop, in order to not rack up a huge bill. Thing is, there are ten more years to consider in order to close the point - one indoor game before Creighton moves to Montreal. Thanks for sharing

I will add your findings to that part at the end of the part in my essay where I go into this, if you don't mind. So, at least readers know what's been checked out thus far. But are you saying that you know there's nothing at all until 1883? That would seem to close the discussion. That's what I really want to know, if people have checked ALL of these sources from 1863 to 1871 inclusive.

It's possible that Martin Jones misquoted Dr. Martin, in saying that he said that articles appeared "in 1863" onward. I did see a couple of minors errors in his book, so maybe this was one. Nonetheless, as a minimum, given what you're saying it sounds like this is the overall score as of now...
1863 Jan-Feb NO HOCKEY REFERENCES
Acadian Recorder,
Halifax Morning Sun,
Halifax British Colonist,
Halifax Evening Express,
Halifax Morning Chronicle

plus

Novascotian.

That is something, I would say.

 

[WhiteTiger]

That's great to know, actually. I had hired somebody to check the Novascotian for Jan and Feb of 1863. My own researcher came back with nothing btw. At that point I figured I had better stop, in order to not rack up a huge bill. Thing is, there are ten more years to consider in order to close the point - one indoor game before Creighton moves to Montreal. Thanks for sharing

I will add your findings to that part at the end of the part in my essay where I go into this, if you don't mind. So, at least readers know what's been checked out thus far. But are you saying that you know there's nothing at all until 1883? That would seem to close the discussion. That's what I really want to know, if people have checked ALL of these sources from 1863 to 1871 inclusive.

It's possible that Martin Jones misquoted Dr. Martin, in saying that he said that articles appeared "in 1863" onward. I did see a couple of minors errors in his book, so maybe this was one. Nonetheless, as a minimum, given what you're saying it sounds like this is the overall score as of now...
1863 Jan-Feb NO HOCKEY REFERENCES
Acadian Recorder,
Halifax Morning Sun,
Halifax British Colonist,
Halifax Evening Express,
Halifax Morning Chronicle

plus

Novascotian.

That is something, I would say.

A friend of mine also checked some papers in the 1864-1871 era, though not all six (I think it was mostly Acadian Recorder and Halifax Morning Sun), and couldn’t find anything. The most thorough research was done on 1863. I can‘t say with 100% certainty that no indoor games were played in Nova Scotia prior to 1883, but so far, no contemporary sources have been unearthed to confirm that there were.

 

[WhiteTiger]

I also looked at the Halifax Sun and Advertiser on NewspaperArchive from 1864-1867 (link) and the Halifax Citizen from 1864-1873 (link), with no hockey references coming up in either.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

I also looked at the Halifax Sun and Advertiser on NewspaperArchive from 1864-1867 (link) and the Halifax Citizen from 1864-1873 (link), with no hockey references coming up in either.

This is great stuff. exactly the kind of thing we need to eliminate sources. well done

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

A friend of mine also checked some papers in the 1864-1871 era, though not all six (I think it was mostly Acadian Recorder and Halifax Morning Sun), and couldn’t find anything. The most thorough research was done on 1863. I can‘t say with 100% certainty that no indoor games were played in Nova Scotia prior to 1883, but so far, no contemporary sources have been unearthed to confirm that there were.

You guys must have looked into Dr. Martin's The Birthplace of Hockey, which Martin Jones describes as an article or pamphlet. Nova Scotia Archives doesn't have it, although they did have the other of the two that Jones mentioned, Hockey in the Old Days.

My question is, do we have "The Birthplace of Hockey"?

 

[Staniowski]

Was their anything special about the outdoor games - that at least had similarities to hockey - that were taking place in the Halifax and Dartmouth areas, or were similar games being played in many different places?

Or do we owe everything to this guy - James Creighton - who moved from Halifax to Montreal and organized the first indoor hockey game?

In other words, is it mostly about James Creighton or is it mostly about Halifax/Dartmouth?

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

Was their anything special about the outdoor games - that at least had similarities to hockey - that were taking place in the Halifax and Dartmouth areas, or were similar games being played in many different places?

Or do we owe everything to this guy - James Creighton - who moved from Halifax to Montreal and organized the first indoor hockey game?

In other words, is it mostly about James Creighton or is it mostly about Halifax/Dartmouth?

Great question!! Imo, the pre-Montreal Halifax game was definitely unique, compared to other hockey-like games at the time. The key to Montreal's conquest of Ice Hockey was, primarily, Halifax's technologies. That is the main reason why Canada aligned itself with Montreal ice hockey. And, why Montreal got turned on to Ice Hockey before.

To me, Creighton cannot be underestimated as a major driver of early Ice Hockey. We all agree on that. But I see him an ambassador of Halifax ice hockey, rather than a singular visionary. He is the most influential person of the 19th century in Ice Hockey, because of what he did in Montreal, which was about turning people on to a game based on Halifax technologies.

 

[WhiteTiger]

You guys must have looked into Dr. Martin's The Birthplace of Hockey, which Martin Jones describes as an article or pamphlet. Nova Scotia Archives doesn't have it, although they did have the other of the two that Jones mentioned, Hockey in the Old Days.

My question is, do we have "The Birthplace of Hockey"?

None of us were able to find an original copy of “The Birthplace of Hockey”. The quotes we got were derived from Martin Jones’ book.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

None of us were able to find an original copy of “The Birthplace of Hockey”. The quotes we got were derived from Martin Jones’ book.

So, basically it sounds like Hockey's Home- Halifax Dartmouth is the closest thing we have to a primary source.

 

[WhiteTiger]

Links to articles on the history of hockey in Nova Scotia and season-by-season stats from throughout the Maritimes from 1883-1931 from my website. Feel they are relevant to this thread.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

Links to articles on the history of hockey in Nova Scotia and season-by-season stats from throughout the Maritimes from 1883-1931 from my website. Feel they are relevant to this thread.

My main interest is the period before James Creighton moved to Montreal, personally. It's very informative to learn that many of the relevant papers have been checked out and eliminated as evidence of pre-Montreal indoor ice hockey. Thank you for that. There's still a ways to go before all sources are eliminated, if there's where that leads. But it's good to know that some people get the need to check this out, if only to see if we can rule everything out. If you have anything to do with the Wikipedia article, please consider adding that Jan and Feb from the Novascotian have also been eliminated.
Personally, I don't care which city introduced indoor Ice Hockey. However, the reasons for believing Dr. Martin and not believing him are so divergent, that I remain intrigued by that much alone. I'll only feel that this is laid to rest from my pov (a) when an 1863-72 evidence of indoor hockey in Halifax is shown or (b) when all the papers are examined and we know there are no such reference.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Beyond the research question at hand, it's wild to me that "the newspapers of this period no longer exist" was simply accepted as fact based on that one line. The 1860s-1870s is potentially the most written about era of Atlantic Canada history and so much of that work is based in the newspapers! Heck, I'm a historian and have spent many quality hours looking at the Nova Scotian newspapers from that exact period. I wonder how the "the newspapers were destroyed" mythos came to be.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

Beyond the research question at hand, it's wild to me that "the newspapers of this period no longer exist" was simply accepted as fact based on that one line. The 1860s-1870s is potentially the most written about era of Atlantic Canada history and so much of that work is based in the newspapers! Heck, I'm a historian and have spent many quality hours looking at the Nova Scotian newspapers from that exact period. I wonder how the "the newspapers were destroyed" mythos came to be.

I would think that has much to do with Dr. Martin's clarity and reputation. On that note, a very interesting thing came up just before I completed this essay on Ice Hockey's birth and early evolution.

I stumbled across a copy of a letter that Thomas Raddall wrote in respone to a dentist in 1954 - this was 6 years after his seminal work, Halifax Warden of the North. In the letter Raddall says that he found "several" references to the Mi'kmaw playing ice hockey in the second half of the 1700s and early 1800s. But always only in relation to other subtopics he was looking up, so he didn't note them. (There's only one paragraph about ice hockey in the 1948 book.) Dr. Martin's testimony is parallel to Raddall here, with one exception - "I saw docs about earlier times". During this thread it occurred to me that one may find references to early ice hockey through Raddall's footnotes, even though they reference other subtopics. This seems to play into the idea that there's some elusive document about the Mi'kmaw that nobody can find.

Here's Thomas Raddall's 1954 letter.

 

[tinyzombies]

There's also the matter of the first puck.

"In the early years, c. 1860-1870s, a rubber ball was the object used in hockey. Because the ball bounced too much, a block of wood was sometimes used instead. The modern hockey puck was invented around 1875. There are two different versions of its origination. One story claims that in 1875, students at Boston University sliced a rubber ball in half to make a puck. Another version places the evolution in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. The owner of one of the first indoor ice rinks, Victoria Rink, also allegedly sliced a rubber ball in half."

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

There's also the matter of the first puck.

"In the early years, c. 1860-1870s, a rubber ball was the object used in hockey. Because the ball bounced too much, a block of wood was sometimes used instead. The modern hockey puck was invented around 1875. There are two different versions of its origination. One story claims that in 1875, students at Boston University sliced a rubber ball in half to make a puck. Another version places the evolution in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. The owner of one of the first indoor ice rinks, Victoria Rink, also allegedly sliced a rubber ball in half."

Hi

I go into this very subtopic on an essay I recently wrote. It's a pretty long essay, but if you search "wooden puck" it will take you right this image below, which notes that wooden pucks were in use in Halifax-Dartmouth before Halifax ice hockey was transferred to Montreal. There's some other info about rubber pucks that also rarely gets mentioned in today's more common explanations.

The passage on the left is written by a Nova Scotia archivist. The image on the right is from a video that you can see here where a couple of Mi'kmaw guys talk about how they used to make sticks and pucks. The video has a new name now, fyi, than in the image below, "The Game of Hockey a Mi'kmaw Story."

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

I have long been fascinated by the purported 1863 games...

It’s quite puzzling given Dr. Martin’s claims of games being “regularly reported” in the local press that winter, but we went through six different papers, and came up empty handed. The earliest confirmed reference in a contemporary newspaper of an indoor ice hockey game being played in Halifax wasn’t until 1883.

It’s a shame these papers aren’t digitized. It would make our lives much easier.

This is probably a matter that should be spelled out to the readers who don't know the nature of the indoor Ice Hockey debate, especially if it remains unresolved, which to my understanding it certainly is not resolved as of Oct 23...

The passages Below are from Martin Jones book, Hockey's Home - Halifax-Dartmouth which was written around 2004. Jones' mention of Dr. Martin writing about indoor hockey in Halifax in 1863. He cites a document that Nova Scotia archives definitely does not have.

So, two things are in play here.

The first idea of this thread is that people are trying to find citations to indoor Ice Hockey in Halifax, which Nova Scotia archives says "are available" and seemingly contrary to Dr. Martin's mention about fires.

The second thing, is the missing document that's cited below. Martin Jones writes as if he is reading the document directly, just as Dr. Martin seems to be reading newspaper reports in telling us that indoor Ice Hockey was definitely played at the Halifax Skating Rink. So, maybe he has an available copy, or knows where a copy of "The Birthplace of Hockey."

I just emailed Martin Jones, asking him for clarification on this, via an email that is associated with his law firm. The email didn't bounce. But I could not find his law firm from the Internet. Finally then, if I hear from Martin on this I will post here and ask others to do the same.

The main point of this post, is that this appears to be the basis of the Indoor ice hockey 'Halifax or Montreal?" mystery.... unless Montrealers actually know otherwise, which I will assume they do not "know" until they can spell out their reasons. That would seem to require saying, to the first point, that all of the available newspapers have been examined.

 

[tinyzombies]

This reminds me of the rumored outdoor game from 1837 in Montreal that one guy claimed he saw as a kid. There's a newspaper story interviewing him, but no trace of it in the papers of the time.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

This reminds me of the rumored outdoor game from 1837 in Montreal that one guy claimed he saw as a kid. There's a newspaper story interviewing him, but no trace of it in the papers of the time.

Yes, but with one difference. We ought not be able to find 1837 ask for his take.

 

[tinyzombies]

This is probably a matter that should be spelled out to the readers who don't know the nature of the indoor Ice Hockey debate, especially if it remains unresolved, which to my understanding it certainly is not resolved as of Oct 23...

The passages Below are from Martin Jones book, Hockey's Home - Halifax-Dartmouth which was written around 2004. Jones' mention of Dr. Martin writing about indoor hockey in Halifax in 1863. He cites a document that Nova Scotia archives definitely does not have.

So, two things are in play here.

The first idea of this thread is that people are trying to find citations to indoor Ice Hockey in Halifax, which Nova Scotia archives says "are available" and seemingly contrary to Dr. Martin's mention about fires.

The second thing, is the missing document that's cited below. Martin Jones writes as if he is reading the document directly, just as Dr. Martin seems to be reading newspaper reports in telling us that indoor Ice Hockey was definitely played at the Halifax Skating Rink. So, maybe he has an available copy, or knows where a copy of "The Birthplace of Hockey."

I just emailed Martin Jones, asking him for clarification on this, via an email that is associated with his law firm. The email didn't bounce. But I could not find his law firm from the Internet. Finally then, if I hear from Martin on this I will post here and ask others to do the same.

The main point of this post, is that this appears to be the basis of the Indoor ice hockey 'Halifax or Montreal?" mystery.... unless Montrealers actually know otherwise, which I will assume they do not "know" until they can spell out their reasons. That would seem to require saying, to the first point, that all of the available newspapers have been examined.

View attachment 759270

The other point is that even if it was played indoors in 1863, that iteration of the game did not carry forth elsewhere. At least according to Creighton, etc. They were inventing their own (indoor) wheel, and that is the wheel that rolled down the street. The Montreal game was being talked about in the New York Times before it even happened.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

The other point is that even if it was played indoors in 1863, that iteration of the game did not carry forth elsewhere. At least according to Creighton, etc. They were inventing their own (indoor) wheel, and that is the wheel that rolled down the street. The Montreal game was being talked about in the New York Times before it even happened.

Not sure if I follow you on this, even if "played indoors in 1863, that iteration of the game did not carry forth elsewhere. At least according to Creighton, etc"

Can you elaborate, tx.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

Beyond the research question at hand, it's wild to me that "the newspapers of this period no longer exist" was simply accepted as fact based on that one line. The 1860s-1870s is potentially the most written about era of Atlantic Canada history and so much of that work is based in the newspapers! Heck, I'm a historian and have spent many quality hours looking at the Nova Scotian newspapers from that exact period. I wonder how the "the newspapers were destroyed" mythos came to be.

I'll tell you why *I* figured it was true: because Dr. Martin allegedly wrote it and he was an A-list local historian of great reputation in the Halifax are. His status in that regard is reflected in OC historian Thomas Raddall, who wrote the forward in his seminal work, the Story of Dartmouth.

I emailed Martin Jones around the time of this thread, he seemed to have a number linked to a law firm but nothing more. It never bounced, but I never heard back from him. I had directly asked if he knew where I could get a copy of the pamphlet, Since it has gone missing for so long I was kind of thinking that I might hear an explanation like, "the copy we had got lost" or some such thing.

Maybe others will have better luck.