In all quietness, Brent Burns has already scored 61 points this season

Kegsey

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Oct 20, 2011
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Well it will most likely be more than 7 by April so I have to ask, what is the threshold for point differential it will take for Burns to be better than Giordano this year in your eyes?

Nothing. Burns could be 20 points ahead of Gio and the Flames fans would still say "yeah but Gio deserves it more."
 
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Gains

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Apr 29, 2012
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Yeah 5 straight seasons with at least 60 Points now. Only 7 goals from hitting 200 career goals. Only 8 Points behind Chara for most Points amongst Active defensemen. Will most likely reach the top 30 in all time Points by a defenseman this season.

Burns is the front runner for sure for the Norris Trophy and could be a dark horse candidate for the Hart Trophy since we'll likely see 4 of the top 5 guys in Points at the end of the season miss the playoffs this year!

Didn't he get some of his points when he was a forward ?
 

tmg

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Didn't he get some of his points when he was a forward ?

I mean, they both did. For a while the Senators' powerplay used Chara in a typically-forward role (net front presence). He did on Bruins powerplay too.

He may have been listed as a defenseman in every submitted roster but both players have earned a lot of points playing roles usually played by forwards.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

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Giordano is still the front runner at this point in time but he was fighting it last night for sure. Burns was clearly the best defenseman on the ice.

Every other defenseman besides those two is pretty much out of Norris talks at this point.
 

newfy

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Well it will most likely be more than 7 by April so I have to ask, what is the threshold for point differential it will take for Burns to be better than Giordano this year in your eyes?

Not entirely sure what it would have to be (Im not a flames fan either), if theyre within 10-15 points I think I would have to really think about it. Less than ten, for sure Gio, 15-20 I would think Burns but would have to look into it a bit.

Gio is one of the best defensive dmen in the league while providing elite offense. Burns is the best offensive dman in the league but does he play in his own end any better than most top 4 D in the league?

With Giordano youre getting umber one, elite offense with number one elite defense. You dont get that with Burns, but his offense is pretty insane, elite of the elite. Its really a tough question on where to draw the line
 

Quid Pro Clowe

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Not entirely sure what it would have to be (Im not a flames fan either), if theyre within 10-15 points I think I would have to really think about it. Less than ten, for sure Gio, 15-20 I would think Burns but would have to look into it a bit.

Gio is one of the best defensive dmen in the league while providing elite offense. Burns is the best offensive dman in the league but does he play in his own end any better than most top 4 D in the league?

With Giordano youre getting umber one, elite offense with number one elite defense. You dont get that with Burns, but his offense is pretty insane, elite of the elite. Its really a tough question on where to draw the line
I know you're a Wing nut.

Thanks for the context.
 

Rubi

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With EK in the fold they should just convert Burns to a winger. I mean it's pretty well what he plays now. It will just be official.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
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I still wouldnt call him the Norris favourite. Hes making noise but if the season ended right now I think Gio would still win it. He'll make it interesting if he can keep this current hot streak going and get a noticeable points lead though. 7 points doesnt make up the difference in defensive play between the 2 in my opinion

7 points isn’t an accurate measurement of the gap in offensive talent.

Burns ranks 1st on his team in scoring, with a 12 point edge on 2nd place. When he is on the ice at even strength, he factors into 55.38% of the goals his team scores. The Sharks have scored 29 goals without him adding a point in 1080:30 of ice time. Call that metric GFMP (goals for minus points), Burns has a GFMP of 29 and a GFMP/60 of 1.61.

Giordano ranks 5th on his own team in scoring, 20 points behind 1st place. When he is on the ice at even strength, he factors into 50% of the goals his team scores. The Flames have scored 31 goals without him adding a point in 960:37 of ice time. Giordano has 31 GFMP or a GFMP/60 of 1.94.

In other words, if Giordano just lies down and does nothing, his team is going to score a lot more frequently than Burns’ team is. Because of that, it’s going to be a lot easier for Giordano to score points. That’s probably part of why Giordano has 15 secondary assists at even strength, compared to Burns’ 12. Meanwhile, Burns has 24 even strength primary points; Giordano has 16.

To lend some credence to this idea, Giordano’s 2 most common ES forward linemates are Johnny Gaudreau and Sean Monahan. Burns’ 2 most common ES forward linemates are Evander Kane and Joe Pavelski. I would gladly dive into numbers for each player if somebody really wants me to, but I think everybody can agree that Giordano plays with better forward linemates. That isn’t a slight to Kane/Pavelski, but rather a compliment to Gaudreau/Monahan.

Now, I’m not saying Burns deserves to win the Norris. Giordano has been better defensively in a tougher defensive role - he deserves it if the season ends today. But the idea that their offense is as close as the 7 point gap between them is wrong. Burns is in his 3rd straight season of being the best offensive player on a comfortable playoff team. There is one other defenseman in the NHL who is capable of playing that role and he also plays for San Jose. If Giordano were put into that role, he would fail and his team would miss the playoffs. The same goes for Morgan Rielly.

With EK in the fold they should just convert Burns to a winger. I mean it's pretty well what he plays now. It will just be official.

Yeah, lot of wingers play 51 combined minutes in two games against Calgary/Winnipeg and allow one goal.
 

Rubi

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[mod edit]

It's not like I said that Burns is a bad d-man. He's not. Offensively he's great. Defensively he's average. I just said the Sharks would be better off by using him full time as a winger instead of part time.
 
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Juxtaposer

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Dec 21, 2009
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This is Burns’ best season yet. Giordano will probably win the Norris because “it’s his turn” like Doughty did, but make no mistake, Burns is the best defenseman in the league this season.

I know I type this kind of thing a lot, but I feel so blessed to have him. He’s just so unique. There is no defenseman in the league with Burns’ combination of size, speed, hands, and shooting ability. Just look at some of the ridiculous highlight reel goals he’s scored this year. Just insane. Burns is 15th in the league in scoring as a defenseman. He’s blowing Rielly and Giordano out of the water despite the fact that those guys each have three or four teammates outpacing them.

It's not like I said that Burns is a bad d-man. He's not. Offensively he's great. Defensively he's average. I just said the Sharks would be better off by using him full time as a winger instead of part time.

This sentiment is impressively ignorant.

People don’t watch the Sharks, see Burns’ point totals, and assume he’s playing “4th forward”. This could not be further from the truth.
 
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Used As A Shield

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It's not like I said that Burns is a bad d-man. He's not. Offensively he's great. Defensively he's average. I just said the Sharks would be better off by using him full time as a winger instead of part time.
He has been one of the better dman at defense for the Sharks for quite some time.
 
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CaptainShark

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It's not like I said that Burns is a bad d-man. He's not. Offensively he's great. Defensively he's average. I just said the Sharks would be better off by using him full time as a winger instead of part time.

Yes and no. It comes down to how you define defensively. Playing in his own zone without the puck, yes... but given that he is an incredible play driver and tilts the ice, his Defence comes via offense as he (and EK65) can hold other teams top lines off the score sheet by simply making them play in their own end. That’s why Burns defensive flaws are no concern to anyone watching him on a game by game basis...
 
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Ronnie Residue

Burns is daddy.
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It's not like I said that Burns is a bad d-man. He's not. Offensively he's great. Defensively he's average. I just said the Sharks would be better off by using him full time as a winger instead of part time.
You actually think that taking a teams offensive dman and moving them to forward makes sense, just based on the fact that they play an offensive style game? Oooookay then... not to mention he’s actually been really solid defending for the sharks this year.
 
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Uncle Scrooge

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Impressive season by him. I really thought EK coming in would take the spotlight and Burns' production would go down a bit, looked like that in the pre-season but it almost went the other way in the end until EK picked it up too.
 

Trocity

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It's not like I said that Burns is a bad d-man. He's not. Offensively he's great. Defensively he's average. I just said the Sharks would be better off by using him full time as a winger instead of part time.
Burns sh*ts on Giordano, yeah.
 
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Alwalys

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May 19, 2010
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burns has been beastin' it this season. so fun to watch. really one of the most remarkable players of the current league era.

With EK in the fold they should just convert Burns to a winger. I mean it's pretty well what he plays now. It will just be official.
incredibly ignorant take
burns in 2018 is playing even more traditional defense than he normally plays.

shot map
shot-heat-map.png


giordano:
shot-heat-map.png
 
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Rubi

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burns has been beastin' it this season. so fun to watch. really one of the most remarkable players of the current league era.


incredibly ignorant take
burns in 2018 is playing even more traditional defense than he normally plays.

shot map
shot-heat-map.png


giordano:
shot-heat-map.png

I agree, Burns this season has been playing better defense than what he has in the past and it would be silly to convert him back to the RW that he was when he was drafted by Minnesota back in 2003. My error was saying that EK was in the SJ fold and thats really not correct as he still hasn't signed with SJ yet and seeing how late it is in the season, he'll likely test the FA market at the end of the season. That will basically leave Burns as the only offensive d-man on the roster since the next best option is Dillon who's scored a whopping 1 goal and 15 assists.
You're right. Leave Burns on defense. Without him there the SJ defense is fairly average once EK moves on.
 

CaptainShark

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I agree, Burns this season has been playing better defense than what he has in the past and it would be silly to convert him back to the RW that he was when he was drafted by Minnesota back in 2003. My error was saying that EK was in the SJ fold and thats really not correct as he still hasn't signed with SJ yet and seeing how late it is in the season, he'll likely test the FA market at the end of the season. That will basically leave Burns as the only offensive d-man on the roster since the next best option is Dillon who's scored a whopping 1 goal and 15 assists.
You're right. Leave Burns on defense. Without him there the SJ defense is fairly average once EK moves on.

Can’t sign an 8-year-extension before the trade-deadline is over. Not saying it’s gonna happen, just saying, the fact that he has not signed yet doesn’t tell us anything.
 
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