Importance of Product Branding (Logos, Team Colors)

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by NewClearWinter, Jun 13, 2011.

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  1. NewClearWinter

    NewClearWinter Registered User

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    When it comes to any product someone is trying to sell, the brand and image play a huge part in it, sometimes even more so than the product itself. With sports, obviously things are a little different, since you will have die hards for every team, even if the team uniform required them to wear underwear over their pants (coincidentally the Caps came close to this back in the day with their infamous white pants).

    But I was wondering how much importance do you place on your team logo/colors. Are they near and dear to your heart? Or are they simply a picture? How much do you think logos contribute to the overall feel/personality of the team, as it is essentially their own "brand".

    From my speculation, I think logos and colors can go a long way. Take for instance the Dallas Stars. Here is a team that had at least respectable jerseys 5 years ago with what was a unique color in the league. After the whole Rbk Edge debacle in 2008, their image was completely transformed into a psuedo basketball team with their horrific home uniform. Bland in all aspects. Being a Texan, I like the Stars, but I don't follow them very much and consider myself an outsider. From this perspective, whenever I think of the Dallas Stars, I think of a team that's dull and doesn't have any distinct personality. This is most likely completely unfounded in reality, but subconsciously their new image has caused me to think that way. Imagine them going back to North Stars type green. It almost instantly feels like a product with more cache and appeal.

    More appeal is better for business in terms of selling merchandise, and most importantly putting butts in the seats (please don't make this a "the sunbelt expansion failed" thread).

    So what do you think? What other examples can you think of where poor branding has caused you to prejudge a team?
     
  2. Shrimper

    Shrimper Trick or ruddy treat

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    Branding a team is important as one that is respectful to it's history and looking to retain it at some extent whilst also modernising will likely gain fans due to the heritage and history that has been kept, other than some teams such as Washington who have changed their logo and their colours (Used to have a black Jersey along with white and blue ones although they seem to have reverted to a more original and retro jersey set now). I think that dull jerseys and logo's etc are the worst as there is nothing worse to look at. Personally, I've become attached to Pittsburgh's logo and if it changed I'd be dissapointed (Partly because I've just got a Crosby jersey and partly because it's something attached to the team and name that is recognisable). However though, it depends if the team needs money, if they do, then they'll change something to get more bucks out of the diehards who buy everything. That's what annoys me, leeching people. (Although to be fair, they don't have to buy it and would feel out of date with last seasons, but, you know)
     
  3. JetFan4Ever

    JetFan4Ever Registered User

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    I agree NCW, I think that is part of the name debate going on in Winnipeg. The Jets had a classic colour combination that was very appealing to the masses. However, having said that, I remember not really thinking their logo was the greatest. It improved with the last iteration but it clearly was not the best.

    I think team colours and logo have a huge effect on fans. Although most fans will cheer their team, if you have a really weak name, colours or logo it's the comments from other cities' fans that really bring you down. I'm not a big fan of trendy colours like teal. Classic style and design will always win in the long run.
     
  4. NewClearWinter

    NewClearWinter Registered User

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    Not to get too psychological, but colors also can have a subtle, yet real effect on the emotions of human beings. Red is a color of aggression, whereas green and blue are more relaxing. I think it would be quite interesting to do a study to see how big and to what effect these colors can have on the team wearing them, the opposing team, and the fans.
     
  5. Shrimper

    Shrimper Trick or ruddy treat

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    Going just as deep, it can also affect size. If you have a dark color then the goal's going to seem smaller making it harder to score.
     
  6. Kanata Senators

    Kanata Senators Registered User

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    Although, the puck will blend in with defensemen's legs if it's shot through a screen, making it harder to stop and easier to score.
     
  7. Fugu

    Fugu Guest

    There's a study floating out there about teams wearing red being victorious more often than other colors. I don't recall the extent of the study. I think one of the posters on the Wings boards cites it in his sig (ARice, iirc).
     
  8. Pajicz

    Pajicz Registered User

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    I've read about this too, although I cannot see the jersey color making a big difference.
     
  9. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    That's just a coincidence, I mean I'm sure Manchester United, the Montreal Canadiens and the Detroit Red Wings and their success goes a long way towards making red so dominant.

    That said, logo design and colour scheme definitely factor into the psychological register of a team/brand/identity. I don't think it's any coincidence that the Tampa Bay Lightning went with a simpler colour scheme and a more elemental logo in order to rebrand themselves as a 'marquee' franchise.
     
  10. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    There was a study put out by the Center for Sport Psychology in Philly that deals with color & logo design, sublimation & emotional response to the full spectrum. Home Depot offers a full range of team colors if your thinking about that spare room Fugu, though I wouldnt recommend Red Wing Red if you plan on using it for relaxation & contemplation, nor would I advise you paint the wall behind your monitor in that particular shade. HF may wind up populated with nothing but Mods & Administrators. And then there were none. Redrum. :)
     
  11. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

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    San Jose did a lot of studying to pick the nickname (top three IIRC in fan poll were: Blades, Sharks, Waves), color (Pacific Teal -- heard they worked with Lands End about picking a "long term" color).

    The triangle in the logo represents the Faralon Islands (off the coast). (Where there are sharks that feed on the seals that live there.)


    There were three factors that the organization used to select the nickname: First, they did not want the name in use by any other professional team. Second, they didn't want it to be able to be abbreviated. Third, and perhaps most important, they wanted it to evoke an emotion when you thought about it.



    When the post lockout new logo was in progress, one of the options was having a red eye, and the organization flatly refused that color option. (Old logo: teal, black, grey, white, orange. New logo: teal, black, orange, white.) Oh, and they put a hidden "S J" in the new logo.

    (San Jose did use "blades" as a nickname, for their affiliate: the Kentucky Thorough-blades.)
     
  12. Big McLargehuge

    Big McLargehuge Registered User

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    Branding can definitely be important. Lord knows the backlash in Pittsburgh when Howard Baldwin changed the Penguins' logo from the skating penguin (Petey, as he's affectionately named after the short-lived live mascot) to the...whatever the **** that 90s atrocity was.

    Most neutral party fans like the 90s Penguins logo, some moreso than the skating Penguin logo. Amongst Penguins fans that split is around 98/2 in favor of the skating Penguin, regardless of shade of gold.


    The naming of the team can be listed as dubious at best, an animal known for it's resiliency is nice...a flightless waterfowl who mainly eats krill doesn't exactly strike fear in the hearts of others...but our name comes from the shape of the arena...looking like an igloo...penguins don't live in igloos...but, whatever. The alliteration worked, and it became another in a long line of Pittsburgh teams with the PP alliteration (Pirates, Panthers) and, eventually, black and gold color scheme (would have been from the start had the Bruins not put up a hissy fit, but whatever).


    That color scheme is hugely important to Pittsburgh sports, though the updated vegas gold doesn't really fit as well. Reasoning?
    [​IMG]


    Out of the four main teams in Pittsburgh (including collegiate sports) 3 of the 4 have the PP alliteration (the outlayer being named after the city's steel industry/heritage) and 3 of 4 have a black/gold color scheme (the outlayer being the Panthers, who use navy and gold).


    Introducing a team to Pittsburgh named, say, Wolves, an aggressive name and great name for a sports team IMO, and using a blue and green color scheme (one of my favorites) would fall flat in a place like Pittsburgh, while it would be glorious for a place like Seattle.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2011
  13. KevFu

    KevFu Registered User

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    And then there were the lessons learned from the Islanders fishsticks debacle.
     
  14. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    ....and lest we forget Vancouvers' "flying 'V'" (79-85) Halloween rigs'. :bat:
     
  15. RandR

    RandR Registered User

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    My personal dislikes in this regard over past few decades:

    I never liked how the Anaheim Mighty Ducks or Toronto Raptors were named to promote or take advantage of recent movies.

    It took me years to figure out what the Philadelphia Flyers and Montreal Expos logos were about.

    Brampton Battalion uniform colours are ghastly. The Oakland then California Golden Seals went through some ridiculous colour schemes too.

    Too many football and hockey teams went to black uniforms to appear bigger and more threatening.

    Those V-necked Canuck uniforms were ridiculous. The original sideways hockey stick logo wasn't exactly inspiring either.

    Although I understand why, I much preferred the parliament-building style logo associated with the Ottawa Senators to what the team eventually revealed.

    Too many teams have redesigned the animal in their logos to look angrier.

    Too many third jerseys, especially the brain-dead ones that have nicknames like Sens or Bolts written across them.

    And finally, in European football (soccer) I think it's terrible the way that so many of the top clubs completely change the colour scheme of their away jerseys almost every year.
     
  16. DeathToAllButMetal

    DeathToAllButMetal Let it all burn.

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    Logo means a lot. I still can't understand the Leafs' desire to stick with the Ballard logo instead of going back to the one they won all the Cups with.
     
  17. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    I agree. There was the one the Leafs came out with & wore in 67 to commemorate Canadas' Confederation, never going back to the original, with Ballard then changing even the Centennial version to the blah-lifeless logo that we've had to live with ever since 1970. The veined Maple Leaf and the Leafs 3rd Jerseys should really be their road jerseys period; the old style logo also featured on their dark home jerseys. I also dislike the "TML" nonsense & shoulder stuff period unless its a tribute or whatever (King Clancy's crown & shamrock, the ACE Baily thing etc).... I understood there to be a problem with the copywrite on the old style logo in that it wasnt owned by the Leafs organization or some such screw up but Im not sure on the details.
     
  18. Buck Aki Berg

    Buck Aki Berg Done with this place

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    I've had the Expos logo explained to me, and I still have no clue. What's an elb? :laugh:

    **

    While I'm still a fan, I've become less enchanted with the Senators organization since they changed their logo and modified their colours. The two-dimensional "profile" logo was one of the best in the league, especially considering the flashiness of the logos of the recent expansion teams. Before the Sens came along, just about everyone in the region was either a Leafs or Habs fan, with some weak ties to the other O6 teams - all of these teams are known for having more subdued, unobtrusive logos and the Sens organization did a great job of designing a logo that didn't look out of place when placed among the other logos of the teams in the old Adams Division.

    However, the change to red as a primary colour happened pretty much immediately upon the arena being renamed Scotiabank Place, and there's no doubt in my mind that changing to red and aligning with Scotiabank was not a coincidence. Additionally, the switch from the 2d to 3d logo was one of the stupidest off-ice moves the organization ever made. The thing looks so cartoony and silly, it just can't be taken seriously, and looks very much out of place when placed among the other logos of the Northeast Division.

    ...and don't even get me started on the SNES thirds :rant::pullhair:
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
  19. Kebekoi

    Kebekoi Registered User

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    But they get you to play Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger... :nod:
     
  20. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    :laugh: That was a mystery to many. There wasnt' an "L" in EB at all, it was just the font & stylization the Expos' used that made it appear so. Of course, it was short for the french "Expos de Montreal Baseball" and it also stood for the teams original owner, Edgar Bronfman.

    As for your Senators' uniforms & color choices, no question your right about that ScotiaBank maneuver. I guess it depends on ones perspective as to just how far a corporate sponsorship should be allowed to go if barring the actual logo on the jersey its corporate colors are used. Michael Yormark of the Panthers is all for it & has been bending the leagues ears about it for some time. If you suddenly had the Chicago Black Hawks, Leafs, Kings, Flyers, Habs, Wings etc changing their colors to reflect their buildings sponsor and or were allowed to market such fundamentals, then Id be calling it a sacrilegious sell-out. Why, thats an abomination Sir!., and though a tad flamboyant perhaps, maybe too much Armani & not enough GAP, I'd like to see the Sens' sporting the original "O" logo with striped jerseys (no names on the backs either) & socks, khaki beige pants. :)
     
  21. Confucius

    Confucius Registered User

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    Black is a colour that brings out some type of aggression. When I was involved in running a houseleague we outlawed the colour black for team sweaters. Almost all kids wanted Black and on the few years we allowed them, it always worked out to be the problem team. Kids just skated around with the, Yep we bad, attitude.
     
  22. Buck Aki Berg

    Buck Aki Berg Done with this place

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    I think the Sens brass thought the Scotiabank/red thing would fly under the radar since 1) the Senators never had a "predominant colour" (excluding black and white), and 2) red was already one of the colours that appeared on the jerseys, but it took me about six seconds to put the two of them together.

    You'll never see the Sens (or any other team) play without names on their backs, since it's mandated by the league. When the league first imposed this, Harold Ballard threw a hissy fit and responded by having the lettering the same colour as the jersey (blue on blue, and white on white) so people would still have to buy programs to know which player was which :laugh:
     
  23. Magnus Fulgur

    Magnus Fulgur Registered User

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    The Thrashers really screwed up. Instead of going with Georgia colors (Red, Black, and White) or something that was like "New Flames" they came out with these bizarre jerseys with too many colors and patterns. I mean, they were Navy, Light Blue, Maroon(ish), Gold, and White AND copper and orange in the main logo. Absurd.

    Then, they brought in the whole Blueland thing...incorporating the colors of North Carolina. It looked like a NC Rainbow jersey. Stupid. Then the awful Maroon Thirds football jersey. Nobody could say what a Thrashers jersey was...just that it was a jersey that stunk.

    The Thrasher Bowlbird "Stupid Little Hurricane" logo was awful. The fans and especially the players chose the secondary logo - the simpler "Batman" logo. In the end, Kane and Byfuglien would only sport the Batman logo hats, and Mason made a Batman logo mask that had no primary logo anywhere on it.

    Everything about The Thrashers franchise stunk. :shakehead
     
  24. BrianL*

    BrianL* Guest

    Weren't the Oakland Raiders the first to equate black uniforms with dirty play?

    Anyway, I've gotta say I'm really tired of seeing blue, red and black as the primary colours in the NHL. I suppose if we end up being the Jets, that pretty much guarantees a blue with red uniform. Maybe another good reason for a name change.

    British Racing Green is still one of my favorite colours. When that Miata SE came out, I had to have one. Keeping my fingers crossed, but don't really expect it to happen.
     
  25. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    More important than the specifics of the presentation is that the team develops an identity around it. Stability matters and giving in to the temptation of tinkering with the logos, colors and uniforms usually works out poorly. It seems like every major change to presentation makes another major change in the future more likely and thus the overall brand of the team weaker.

    Vancouver is a good example, their original presentation didn't even last a decade, the second overall design lasted almost two decades but also saw repeated fiddling with uniform designs, then you got the Orca look which as a logo still exists today but the colors only lasted around a decade. At the moment the presentation is in a bit of limbo with popular choice clearly going towards the original design. The franchise could have saved itself a lot of trouble by just sticking with that through the 70s, 80s and 90s. Not because it was a particularly inspired design, but because it's a rallying point for the team's identity.

    Buffalo saw a similar thing, except they actually stayed fairly faithful to their original design for 25 years or so. The complete overhaul in the mid 90s was a disaster. It practically wiped out 25 years of identity. Ever since the team has slowly inched back towards the original design taking the ugly detour of the slug in the process.

    The truth is that if Buffalo had stuck with the re-branded design and stuck with it for another 50 years, people would likely have forgotten the original design and gotten attached to that black and red scheme. But with one major element of history wiped out, the biggest argument to keep a design around had vanished as well and thus the temptation to go with the mood for another design overhaul was always going to be there. With time a design and thus a branding gains gravitas, no matter what it actually looks like.

    A lot of people praised the Ducks overhaul to their current black and orange scheme, primarily because of the early 90s cartoonish folly of the original designs. But I'd almost be willing to bet the Ducks will make another notable change within the next 10-15 years.
     

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