Impasse possibly declared on April 20th!!

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Motown Beatdown

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chiavsfan said:
Again, people are reading too much into SPECULATION. The write of this article has one of those famous "UNNAMED NHL EXECUTIVES" oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Remember, all these "unnamed sources" have been wrong 99.999999% of the time.

Nowhere in this article does it say that an owner, or Gary Bettman confirm the BOG meeting is to declare impasse, that is just the feeling of the writer. I think there ar 2 people on this board who made that clear, but everyone else just seems to skip over the truth, and focus on what they THINK they know


And it's just a happened to come out the day before the NHL and NHLPA are meeting.
 

HockeyCritter

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chiavsfan said:
Again, people are reading too much into SPECULATION. The write of this article has one of those famous "UNNAMED NHL EXECUTIVES" oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Remember, all these "unnamed sources" have been wrong 99.999999% of the time.

Nowhere in this article does it say that an owner, or Gary Bettman confirm the BOG meeting is to declare impasse, that is just the feeling of the writer. I think there ar 2 people on this board who made that clear, but everyone else just seems to skip over the truth, and focus on what they THINK they know
Correct. Why would the League go this route when Bettman gave Goodenow a June 1st deadline (when linkage is back on the table)?
 

Timmy

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Mighty Duck said:
You continue to confuse money as the only factor as how "free market" is defined. It is quite obvious you have a one track mind like an owner. Until you realize that money isn't the only issue, you will appear to have a paper bag stuck over your head.

I would suggest the owners should meet 1st, and come up with a plan on how they all, collectively will run their budgets.

I would bet my bottom dollar, that even if the NHLPA agrred to the Cap Bettman wanted, there would owners who would find a way to undermine the Cap/Linkage system.

para1 Principles don't make your mortgage payments.

para2 Collusion central.

para3 If the NHLPA believed the cap/linkage system had flaws, they'd shut up, accept it, and let their agents get to work exploiting those flaws.

The problem is, the owners are shooting for an ironclad CBA that will not have loopholes that some GMs and all agents would dearly love to take advantage of, a la 95-03.
 

Mighty Duck

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Timmy said:
para1 Principles don't make your mortgage payments.

para2 Collusion central.

para3 If the NHLPA believed the cap/linkage system had flaws, they'd shut up, accept it, and let their agents get to work exploiting those flaws.

The problem is, the owners are shooting for an ironclad CBA that will not have loopholes that some GMs and all agents would dearly love to take advantage of, a la 95-03.

para1 Owners: Budget, budget, budget, don't over spend!!

para2 Owners: Budget, budget, budget, don't over spend!! eg: Brian Burke: Vancouver Canucks, responsible GM who understands BUDGETS. His favorite quote, "If it don't make sense, I will drive the guy to airport"

para3 Owners: They have continued to shoot themselves in the foot, and I am sure they will find ways to continue this practise.

They won't need any help from the player agents, as their own ego will drive them to find ways to circumvent any CBA that gets signed. They have all proven, whether it makes sense or not, if they want it, it shall be done! Right now, most want the lock out, only to flex their muscle, and show the NHLPA who is wagging the tail on the dog. Only, and only when they come to their sense will they realize what they have destroyed. Some teams may never rebound, and may go under. But, as long as there are business people around to buy sports franchises, this sad state will continue. The NHL of today may quickly become just another Pro hockey league. As interest from all over the place in trying to establish new hockey leagues. Whether the NHL likes it or not, the Europeon leagues will get stronger each year, and as the players decide to stay in Europe, the quality of the NHL will subside. And as far as the US is concerned, Europe has proven to produce more and better hockey players. The only thing is the financial depth of the US teams, and that is going down hill, and Europe is on the up hill swing. It is only a matter of time. Canada is Canada, it lives and breathes hockey. The US could care less, so as a Canadian, I would welcome the Europeon market, and see the likes of Nashville loose their team, which they never deserved in the 1st place. I suggest many Americans should take a look around, as they would find out, the hockey world doesn't rotate around them. The fact is, they are just trying to control it, but are losing fast. Better throw out a life jacket before it is too late
 

Timmy

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Mighty Duck said:
para1 Owners: Budget, budget, budget, don't over spend!!

para2 Owners: Budget, budget, budget, don't over spend!! eg: Brian Burke: Vancouver Canucks, responsible GM who understands BUDGETS. His favorite quote, "If it don't make sense, I will drive the guy to airport"

para3 Owners: They have continued to shoot themselves in the foot, and I am sure they will find ways to continue this practise.

They won't need any help from the player agents, as their own ego will drive them to find ways to circumvent any CBA that gets signed.

Para1 Become a farm team for the rest of the NHL

Para2 There's only one Brian Burke, and he had no problem telling players and media to go and um, get lost. He also had no problem telling Vancouver fans that one phone call was all it would take to move the Canucks out of Vancouver. He also got continually roasted (unfairly IMHO) by the media for lack of signings in the offseasons. He and the organization were lucky that Vcr fans supported their decisions not to spend whacks of money on UFA's etc. Not all city's fans would be so understanding.

Para3 There's just a couple of owners shooting other owners' feet. If Yashin was still cooling his heels in Europe rather than playing for NYI, then I would maybe believe that management had the cajones to truly withstand "insulted" players' individual demands and withstand the heat from the media and their local fans for not re-signing a star player.
 

Mighty Duck

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Timmy said:
Para1 Become a farm team for the rest of the NHL

Para2 There's only one Brian Burke, and he had no problem telling players and media to go and um, get lost. He also had no problem telling Vancouver fans that one phone call was all it would take to move the Canucks out of Vancouver. He also got continually roasted (unfairly IMHO) by the media for lack of signings in the offseasons. He and the organization were lucky that Vcr fans supported their decisions not to spend whacks of money on UFA's etc. Not all city's fans would be so understanding.

Para3 There's just a couple of owners shooting other owners' feet. If Yashin was still cooling his heels in Europe rather than playing for NYI, then I would maybe believe that management had the cajones to truly withstand "insulted" players' individual demands and withstand the heat from the media and their local fans for not re-signing a star player.

Maybe we should get specific. Lets start with the worst offender, our beloved NYR. Now did anyone hold a gun to their head on some of their irresponsible signings. Noted: Holik, Messier, Lindros, shall I go on. Please debate!!! Next up: Toronto
 

Timmy

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Mighty Duck said:
Maybe we should get specific. Lets start with the worst offender, our beloved NYR. Now did anyone hold a gun to their head on some of their irresponsible signings. Noted: Holik, Messier, Lindros, shall I go on. Please debate!!! Next up: Toronto

After a Pejorative Slured signing by NYR, the other 29 teams either have a gun put to their head by a player whose contract is up for renewal, or the Pejorative Slured contract is used in the arbitration hearing for comparative purposes.

The NHLPA coordinated with the agents to continue to move the benchmark upwards in the last ten years. If the owners worked with each other to try to move the benchmark down by not signing UFAs or making qualifying offers to RFAs, or walking away from arbitration decisions en masse, there'd be court orders for their phone records to prove collusion.

People like Strachan calling owners "cheap" who pay players "woefully undermarket salaries" are another major factor, as fans listen to these guys and vote with their feet.

Owners can't risk pissing off a niche market of fans, so an economic gun is held to their head every time a player's contract is up for renewal or they walk into an arbitration.

And if they walk away from an arbitration decision, the player becomes a UFA and the team gets no value back in the form of a trade.

Please don't tell me that the majority of owners don't have a gun to their head when it comes to re-signing their players. The media and fans hold them accountable, as do the other players on a team.

If a team doesn't re-sign a couple of players because it's "not within their budget", then maybe Pronger pipes up and says, if STL doesn't get serious about making a cup contender, I want a trade."

No guns to their head? Risk losing more and more players because of a few GMs?

Lose your fan base because you're portrayed as an owner willing to accept failure as an option on the altar of a proper "budget"?

How do you think the NHLPA reacted when Kariya signed his last deal?

So the fiscally responsible owners are "cheap" under a CBA, and "foolish spenders who can't stick to a budget" when the CBA expires.

Put another way, they're good owners for having a player under contract, but then suddenly become cheap when the contract expires or they refuse to extend/renogotiate the contract.
 

RangerBoy

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nyr7andcounting said:
I don't know about that. The owners don't have a great case in court to begin with so why stop negotiating so soon in order to try an impasse? That meeting could be for a number of things and it seems like the writer was just guessing what it was. It could also be because Bettman feels they will be able to make a deal in the next month and is setting a date to pressure both sides. He could set that meeting with intentions of walking in with a CBA and taking a vote on it.

On top of that, why would Bettman come out and say they will leave linkage out of negotiations until June 1 if he only intended to negotiate until late April? Doesn't make much sense.

When did Bettman say anything about leaving linkage off the table until June 1?It was a newspaper article in the Ottawa Sun by an unknown source.
 
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RangerBoy

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Mighty Duck said:
Maybe we should get specific. Lets start with the worst offender, our beloved NYR. Now did anyone hold a gun to their head on some of their irresponsible signings. Noted: Holik, Messier, Lindros, shall I go on. Please debate!!! Next up: Toronto

Eric Lindros?He had a low base salary plus incentives.His salary was established by the Flyers

Mark Messier?When?When he brought the Cup to New York after 54 years.The Canucks had no problem paying $6 million per

Every team has made mistakes.Some many more than others

The league is littered with overpaid players
 

AM

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yes but if you want a true market

Weary said:
Franchise values are set in the open market. Shouldn't players' incomes also be?

you have to compare other leagues to the NHL.

Not just NHL to NHL... because the players arnt listening to the NHL right now!

You are worth this...

No I'm worth more!

No you are worth this...

Nope!

Ok go play in Europe see how much youre worth...

Ok I guess I'm worth 1/10 what I though tI was worth!
 

Mighty Duck

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RangerBoy said:
Eric Lindros?He had a low base salary plus incentives.His salary was established by the Flyers

Mark Messier?When?When he brought the Cup to New York after 54 years.The Canucks had no problem paying $6 million per

Every team has made mistakes.Some many more than others

The league is littered with overpaid players

Yep, and my garage is full of toys I paid to much for, but I am smart enough to realize this problem is no ones fault but mine. If I were to whine and snivel about it to my banker, he would just say, cut up the credit card, or even better yet, don't buy it if you can't pay for it. Brian Burke, if it don't make sense, I will drive the guy to the airport.
 

SENSible1*

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Mighty Duck said:
Yep, and my garage is full of toys I paid to much for, but I am smart enough to realize this problem is no ones fault but mine. If I were to whine and snivel about it to my banker, he would just say, cut up the credit card, or even better yet, don't buy it if you can't pay for it. Brian Burke, if it don't make sense, I will drive the guy to the airport.

Your toy dealer can't take you to court if all your neighbours stop overspending on toys.

Collusion...look it up.
 

dakota

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Timmy said:
After a Pejorative Slured signing by NYR, the other 29 teams either have a gun put to their head by a player whose contract is up for renewal, or the Pejorative Slured contract is used in the arbitration hearing for comparative purposes.

The NHLPA coordinated with the agents to continue to move the benchmark upwards in the last ten years. If the owners worked with each other to try to move the benchmark down by not signing UFAs or making qualifying offers to RFAs, or walking away from arbitration decisions en masse, there'd be court orders for their phone records to prove collusion.

People like Strachan calling owners "cheap" who pay players "woefully undermarket salaries" are another major factor, as fans listen to these guys and vote with their feet.

Owners can't risk pissing off a niche market of fans, so an economic gun is held to their head every time a player's contract is up for renewal or they walk into an arbitration.

And if they walk away from an arbitration decision, the player becomes a UFA and the team gets no value back in the form of a trade.

Please don't tell me that the majority of owners don't have a gun to their head when it comes to re-signing their players. The media and fans hold them accountable, as do the other players on a team.

If a team doesn't re-sign a couple of players because it's "not within their budget", then maybe Pronger pipes up and says, if STL doesn't get serious about making a cup contender, I want a trade."

No guns to their head? Risk losing more and more players because of a few GMs?

Lose your fan base because you're portrayed as an owner willing to accept failure as an option on the altar of a proper "budget"?

How do you think the NHLPA reacted when Kariya signed his last deal?

So the fiscally responsible owners are "cheap" under a CBA, and "foolish spenders who can't stick to a budget" when the CBA expires.

Put another way, they're good owners for having a player under contract, but then suddenly become cheap when the contract expires or they refuse to extend/renogotiate the contract.

where is Mighty Duck now?
 

WHARF1940

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txomisc said:
How extremely clever of you. Whether you want to admit it or not, they did negotiate.
maybe with themselves, but certainly not with each other, or at least not at a reasonable level....
I'm not trying to be clever, I've just had it with these bs meetings...
 

no13matssundin

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PecaFan said:
It's only pressure if the players were still clueless as to the future.

They're dumb, but not that dumb.

I would disagree seeing that the players have given away Billions of dollars for nothing, only to gain less than what they could have had... while everyone everywhere was telling them this, and they ignored it.

thats pretty dumb if you ask me.

If youre willing to waste Billions on a lost cause, why wouldnt they be clueless to something smaller?
 
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