Speculation: iMac: Canucks will be "aggressive" on July 1st with regards to second-tier FAs

[TruGr1t]

There is no one right now who will consistently be calling out the management for their heaps of unforced errors, terrible plans, and even worse execution. It's a massive loss. Welcome to Shill-City, baby!

Sounds like there's a job opening. I don't think that'll be lost on the newer-age media members like Burke, etc. The media ecology will generate some critical voice to replace Botch. There's always somebody doing it because there is massive demand for criticism of the current regime.

 

[mathonwy]

I just tweeted something similar, but the absence of a voice of pushback like Botchford's is going to be disastrous this summer. From an actual on-ice hockey standpoint, I think his loss shouldn't be understated.

In a one sport town like Vancouver, the loss of a voice like Botch's will be felt for a very long time.

It's really too bad Gallagher never figured out how to adapt his style and not be so cynical / angry.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Stecher is a better defenceman than Hutton. He processes the game a lot quicker and has a better motor, for his lack of size he engages with more intensity and gets beat less often. His pivots and agility are much better and so is his stick work. Hutton’s decent but Stecher is better.

Troy Stecher: GP:78 P:23 +9 CF%50.5 GF/60=2.4 GA/60=2.1
Ben Hutton: GP: 69 P: 20 -23 CF%46.4 GF/60=2.0 GA/60=3.0

 

[TruGr1t]

Stecher is a better defenceman than Hutton. He processes the game a lot quicker and has a better motor, for his lack of size he engages with more intensity and gets beat less often. His pivots and agility are much better and so is his stick work. Hutton’s decent but Stecher is better.

Troy Stecher: GP:78 P:23 +9 CF%50.5 GF/60=2.4 GA/60=2.1
Ben Hutton: GP: 69 P: 20 -23 CF%46.4 GF/60=2.0 GA/60=3.0

The difference likely won't be reflected in on ice results, though. Like I said, you can split hairs here statistically, but they aren't materially different for the purpose of building the roster. I'd say keep the guy who is going to be cheaper if you have to pick one.

The problem is they're both replacement level players offensively, and we don't generate any offense off the blue line.

 

[4Twenty]

Stecher is a better defenceman than Hutton. He processes the game a lot quicker and has a better motor, for his lack of size he engages with more intensity and gets beat less often. His pivots and agility are much better and so is his stick work. Hutton’s decent but Stecher is better.

Troy Stecher: GP:78 P:23 +9 CF%50.5 GF/60=2.4 GA/60=2.1
Ben Hutton: GP: 69 P: 20 -23 CF%46.4 GF/60=2.0 GA/60=3.0

Again.


Troy has never had an anchor like Gudbranson....ever.

Your stats do not include enough context.

 

[MS]

I agree but on name value alone there will still be someone dumb enough to give him a multi year deal.

Oh, absolutely. And it’s very likely to be us.

Nyquist isn't in the same class of a player as Eriksson was though. Eriksson had 5 25+ goal 60+ point seasons. Plus it's not like Nyquist performs well in the playoffs or having scoring a lot of goals this playoffs. He has 5 goals 19 points in 52 career playoff games. But he traditionally does have strong underlying numbers.

Personally, I treat him like a younger but lesser Vrbata. He's a complimentary top 6 player. He's a guy that you sign to a 2-3 year contract for about $4M AAV to add to your lineup. As a right winger, I generally have no issues with signing him to a 2 year deal at say max $5M AAV per se. He's definitely not a player I would give term and money to.

The fact that Eriksson was good in 2010 didn’t matter in 2016. Nyquist in the 4 years leading up to UFA was a better player than Eriksson in the 4 years leading up to UFA.

That said, still don’t want Nyquist at his age and what he’ll get.

Anyone who rates Tanev anywhere near the top3 defenceman of this team hasn’t been watching hockey for two years.
Tanev is awful these days! Should be dumped for whatever they can get at this point.

If you think Tanev was awful last year I really don’t know what to say.

He struggled in November playing through an injury. And in a stretch with Gudbranson (and playing his off-side), as everyone does.

Otherwise he continued to chew up top-line opposition forwards and generated a positive goal differential again while playing the toughest minutes possible.

Stecher is a better defenceman than Hutton. He processes the game a lot quicker and has a better motor, for his lack of size he engages with more intensity and gets beat less often. His pivots and agility are much better and so is his stick work. Hutton’s decent but Stecher is better.

Troy Stecher: GP:78 P:23 +9 CF%50.5 GF/60=2.4 GA/60=2.1
Ben Hutton: GP: 69 P: 20 -23 CF%46.4 GF/60=2.0 GA/60=3.0

... and now what were Hutton’s numbers without Gudbranson? And Stecher’s without Edler?

 

[xtra]

Sorry I didn’t know where to start. Hutton and Stecher being interchangeable is amusing. IF I was a betting man I’d wager he isn’t on the team in October. Also, I think I’ve seen enough of Hughes to already know he is superior to Hutton.
Between his stint with the Canucks to consecutive world championships it’s clear he is ready to be a key contributor. He has been great with the US so far and they are a favourite to win gold. Hutton would be blitzed in this tournament.

See now this is something a person can respond to,

I think your view on Hutton is clouded by his play with guds as everything I find has them as the same player.

As for Hughes playing 82 games is a lot different than short tournaments where your best skill is accentuated due to ice size. Playing 82 games in the nhl will be difficult for him this first year which is why I see him struggling a bit.

 

[VanJack]

Really. Hutton's future with the Canucks depends a lot more on what Juolevi does. If he proves he's ready, then they can't give Hutton over $3m a season for a depth d-man role.

Still one of the most likely Canuck trade candidates, but will probably happen 'in-season'.

 

[Dana Murzyn]

... and now what were Hutton’s numbers without Gudbranson? And Stecher’s without Edler?

This article gets into that, and even after context is considered, Hutton doesn't look so good. Some of the methodology is over my head, but the parts I do understand are compelling.

Why the Canucks should sell high on Ben Hutton

 

[4Twenty]

... and now what were Hutton’s numbers without Gudbranson? And Stecher’s without Edler?

It's not even just Stecher without Edler....

I like Stecher, but he was literally being sheltered with the 3rd pair until February.

When he moved up with Hutton, they were both good, but overwhelmed by the minutes....they both were, then Hutton got hurt and Edler came back.

The samples are small, like under 10 minutes each, but Hutton next to Edler was a corsi dominant pairing, and Stecher with Gudbranson got pummelled.

Not just that, but Stecher's minutes were almost all with the big 3 up front.

 

[MS]

This article gets into that, and even after context is considered, Hutton doesn't look so good. Some of the methodology is over my head, but the parts I do understand are compelling.

Why the Canucks should sell high on Ben Hutton

I don’t have the Athletic unfortunately.

It's not even just Stecher without Edler....

I like Stecher, but he was literally being sheltered with the 3rd pair until February.

When he moved up with Hutton, they were both good, but overwhelmed by the minutes....they both were, then Hutton got hurt and Edler came back.

The samples are small, like under 10 minutes each, but Hutton next to Edler was a corsi dominant pairing, and Stecher with Gudbranson got pummelled.

Not just that, but Stecher's minutes were almost all with the big 3 up front.

Absolutely - the situations Stecher was put in were far lower-leverage with far better partners than what Hutton faced. And got far luckier in terms of PDO.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I want one of:

Nyquist

Johansson

Eberle

Donskoi

I hope we sign whomever is the biggest bargain. I suspect it would have been Johansson before his productive playoff run.


I suspect Eberle will want too much.

I think the preview we got from Hughes will save us from making a big financial mistake on Gardiner (who is decent, but not worth 7 million).

I hope we avoid Myers and Simmonds.

Ferland would be a great get if he was paid 3.5-4.5 million for 3 or 4 years, but he will be paid something like 5.5 for 6 years. I hope it isn't us that bites that bullet.


And Stecher is FAR FAR FAR better than Hutton.

 

[DonnyNucker]

I want one of:

Nyquist

Johansson

Eberle

Donskoi

I hope we sign whomever is the biggest bargain. I suspect it would have been Johansson before his productive playoff run.


I suspect Eberle will want too much.

I think the preview we got from Hughes will save us from making a big financial mistake on Gardiner (who is decent, but not worth 7 million).

I hope we avoid Myers and Simmonds.

Ferland would be a great get if he was paid 3.5-4.5 million for 3 or 4 years, but he will be paid something like 5.5 for 6 years. I hope it isn't us that bites that bullet.


And Stecher is FAR FAR FAR better than Hutton.

This Hutton > than Stecher talk is one of the craziest things I’ve read on here. Stechers excellence on the PK seems to have no value on these boards. A quick google search came up with this article that has some stats to support his PK work:

Troy Stecher has staked his claim as a key part of the future of the Canucks defence

Imo we should commit to Stecher and package Hutton at the draft for a RHD D prospect or a pic. I wouldn’t want to go to arbitration

 

[TruGr1t]

The Hutton/Stecher arguments are getting hilarious. These are literally ~20 point, average defensive players that shouldn't be handling more than ~18 mins per night. They're great to have while cost controlled, but should be replaced from within the system regularly otherwise. Not that Canucks management is particularly into that. They will never generate many points, they are not shutdown players, and they should certainly not be getting anything resembling top-pairing minutes. Nice depth though.

The funny part is that we may well end up keeping both due to Edler's departure. I continue to maintain that Edler will hold out for a 3-year deal that includes a NMC. He stays if Benning capitulates on the ask (he'll probably bend a bit on salary), but he will attempt to get a 3-4 year deal with a movement clause from another team if the Canucks will not provide it.

 

[Cupless44]

I hope Benning loses his phone on July 1st..but that wont be the case. Of the lesser of the evils such as Myers, Simmons, Ferland etc...what would be the consensus on Kevin Hayes? That seems like one of the guys I wouldn't mind

 

[elitepete]

Edler should be above Tanev. Tanev has been absolute dog **** the past couple of seasons. He had a 44.2% CF% this season, huge yikes from me

I bet he bounces back and has a better season this year.

 

[ayoshi]

5 years into Benning's management and we were 12th in the west and 23rd in the league last year. And that was considered good.

Time for change in the front office. Please don't let Benning spend to try to save his job.

 

[The Drop]

This Hutton > than Stecher talk is one of the craziest things I’ve read on here. Stechers excellence on the PK seems to have no value on these boards. A quick google search came up with this article that has some stats to support his PK work:

Troy Stecher has staked his claim as a key part of the future of the Canucks defence

Imo we should commit to Stecher and package Hutton at the draft for a RHD D prospect or a pic. I wouldn’t want to go to arbitration

Stecher isn’t anything special either. Decent dman on a crappy team that bleeds chances.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Stecher isn’t anything special either. Decent dman on a crappy team that bleeds chances.

True but he doesn’t bleed as many chances and goals against as Hutton does

 

[LordBacon]

I actually consider Hutton-stecher a reliable 2nd pairing, both of them showed good improvements last year and I would like to keep those two around. Our main focus should be 1st pairing d to replace one of edler/tanev, a top6 winger and one bottom pairing rh d to play with juolevi.
But in reality jb probably signs simmonds Myers etc to multi year contracts with ntcs trying to save his butt.

 

[Nuckies]

I actually consider Hutton-stecher a reliable 2nd pairing, both of them showed good improvements last year and I would like to keep those two around. Our main focus should be 1st pairing d to replace one of edler/tanev, a top6 winger and one bottom pairing rh d to play with juolevi.
But in reality jb probably signs simmonds Myers etc to multi year contracts with ntcs trying to save his butt.

No he won't and I am sure when he doesn't people here will say Acquilini stopped him, because you know Dumb Jim is like a drr drr dumb!

Amazing how many people call him stupid yet who's the guy making millions a year running a NHL franchise, and who's on the internet talking like they know better?

Who's the smart one? The guy with the dream job making millions or the guys thinking they can do better but wouldn't even get a sniff managing a tyke aaa team?

 

[Jyrki21]

Amazing how many people call him stupid yet who's the guy making millions a year running a NHL franchise, and who's on the internet talking like they know better?

Who's the smart one? The guy with the dream job making millions or the guys thinking they can do better but wouldn't even get a sniff managing a tyke aaa team?

Benning is there because he is a former pro hockey player and that's pretty much all they'll hire in the NHL. He's not some guy who came out of nowhere because of his smarts.

This may come as a shock, but most of us work in other industries. We don't measure our abilities by climbing the ladder in a professional hockey league. Put another way, almost by definition, given the same opportunities, many of us would be considerably better at Benning's job than he would at ours.

 

[Nuckies]

Benning is there because he is a former pro hockey player and that's pretty much all they'll hire in the NHL. He's not some guy who came out of nowhere because of his smarts.

This may come as a shock, but most of us work in other industries. We don't measure our abilities by climbing the ladder in a professional hockey league. Put another way, almost by definition, given the same opportunities, many of us would be considerably better at Benning's job than he would at ours.

well in all reality, if you could do a better job, you wouldn't be in the peanut gallery claiming you could but rather, you'd be hired to do it. You see, people get jobs because they are qualified and put in the work over decades to prove it.

I am sure you think you could be a better brain surgeon than most as well, by watching doogie howser! LOL

"given opportunities' - tells me all I need to know bro - opportunities are earned. And no one here has earned the ability to run a franchise, lol.

"many of us could do better' - your job must be flippin burgers if you think watching hockey games would make you a better professional and better qualified, because you're assuming that job is as easy as yours.

 

[xtra]

Wow another troll out the wood work to defend benning. It’s like clockwork

 

[MS]

well in all reality, if you could do a better job, you wouldn't be in the peanut gallery claiming you could but rather, you'd be hired to do it. You see, people get jobs because they are qualified and put in the work over decades to prove it.

I am sure you think you could be a better brain surgeon than most as well, by watching doogie howser! LOL

"given opportunities' - tells me all I need to know bro - opportunities are earned. And no one here has earned the ability to run a franchise, lol.

"many of us could do better' - your job must be flippin burgers if you think watching hockey games would make you a better professional and better qualified, because you're assuming that job is as easy as yours.

What an embarrassingly terrible post, which is not surprisingly from an account created today.

The 31 NHL spots are filled by a closed-circle Old Boy’s Club of about 50 names who are virtually entirely ex-players or relations of other NHL executives. There is no ‘path’ for someone not involved in those fashions to get to the NHL.

Jim Benning is where he is because his scout dad pulled strings to get him a scout job after his playing career (which Benning himself has admitted) and because his brother played college hockey with Chiarelli and Sweeney and he played in the NHL with Linden (another idiot promoted to a job he was bad at because he was good at playing hockey 20 years before). Period.

Benning has been here for 6 years. He’s been an embarrassment. A joke. He’s bad at every single aspect of his job. He can’t evaluate talent. He can’t build rosters. He can’t manage a salary cap. He’s a rube who is constantly bent over and worked raw by agents and other GMs in negotiations. He’s a bumbling buffoon.

And yes, most of the posters here have track records of opinions which blow Benning’s work out of the water. But that isn’t saying much.