I'm Gonna Make You An Offer You Can't Refuse (CBA & Lockout Discussion) - Part VIII ‎

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Motown Beatdown

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Mar 5, 2002
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As long as the PA doesn't pull something stupid on their counter offer i think a deal can be finalized in a week. The NHL look at that deal, then tweak that offer a bit send it to the PA on Saturday and they will announce an agreement in principal on Monday.


or atleast that my hope
 

squidz*

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every single players proposal has them taking the same share of revenue as they have now with lower shares in the future. Where have they asked for more?


I see this as the NHL's first legitimate proposal. Now some real bargaining can be done. The end result will likely be a deal that ends with a 51 or 52% players share after starting around 56% and ramping down, which realistically is what most would have expected a few months ago anyways. The NHL is the side that wasted the past two months by taking a completely unreasonable starting point that only created more animosity between the two sides.

If the players respond to THIS proposal with another offer of status quo, maybe I could agree with you. Until that point, it's still right to call it a lockout.

The one and only player proposal thus far has seen an increase in player salaries over the amount paid in 2011-2012. Try and gussy that point up with any funny math you want to try, but in both real and nominal dollars, the only players proposal saw an increase in salaries from 2011-2012 to 2012-2013.
 

Some Other Flame

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Dec 4, 2010
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@aaronward_nhl: Per player source,clarification is needed on HRR definition in league proposal,appears in new offer player share is lowered.Also 'salary

@aaronward_nhl: guarantee/protection',to allow to go from 57% to 50%,means players would likely be paid back by themselves,out of their share in the

@aaronward_nhl: future.Possibility a guy could retire,and players still playing, would be bearing burden to pay him back. #TSN

@aaronward_nhl: Clarification between NHL and NHLPA will come by phone Wednesday and they will meet in person in Toronto on Thursday. #TSN

Those are pretty big poison pills for the PA to swallow. But if the owners don't take a 'take it or leave it' approach, there's still hope for a deal.
 
Nov 13, 2006
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every single players proposal has them taking the same share of revenue as they have now with lower shares in the future. Where have they asked for more?


I see this as the NHL's first legitimate proposal. Now some real bargaining can be done. The end result will likely be a deal that ends with a 51 or 52% players share after starting around 56% and ramping down, which realistically is what most would have expected a few months ago anyways. The NHL is the side that wasted the past two months by taking a completely unreasonable starting point that only created more animosity between the two sides.

If the players respond to THIS proposal with another offer of status quo, maybe I could agree with you. Until that point, it's still right to call it a lockout.


Actually, this is inaccurate. The only proposal made by the players was for a guaranteed increase in each year: 2%, 4% and 6%.
 

Crows*

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Those are pretty big poison pills for the PA to swallow. But if the owners don't take a 'take it or leave it' approach, there's still hope for a deal.

The nhl knows this and know they can move off some of those positions. They are showing willingness to move and to negotiate
 

squidz*

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As mentioned, most non-core economics are negotiable. The league has to take some things like that so they have something to "give back" when the players try to negotiate against it.
 

MISC*

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Ok champ, calm down. At this point, neither side is villafied. The NHLPA will provide a full counter proposal on Thursday which will be their first. It could be argued that in all reality, this is the first feasible offer the NHL has tabled.

Haha.

Sorry, brah.

Canucks got 35,000 dollars of mine for season tickets and my jimmies are getting severely rustled.
 

Crows*

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@RealKyper: #NHLPA will counter offer softening 200M hit. How will #NHL respond? Was Tues offer a starting pt to negotiate or take it or leave it deal?
 

Crows*

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As mentioned, most non-core economics are negotiable. The league has to take some things like that so they have something to "give back" when the players try to negotiate against it.

Exactly!!!!bingo
 

LeafsNation75

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Jan 15, 2010
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Even though the NHL offered a 50/50 split on Hockey Related Revenue is no reason for the NHLPA to accept their offer right away. Bob McKenzie and Darren Dreger were saying one issue the players won't accept right away is a 5 year limit on player contracts. So there is a lot of details which need to be worked out and everyone knows this deal won't happen within the next 24 - 72 hours.
 

Iggy77

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Oct 5, 2009
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@RealKyper: #NHLPA will counter offer softening 200M hit. How will #NHL respond? Was Tues offer a starting pt to negotiate or take it or leave it deal?

I'm sure Bettman knew the PA would reject and issue a counter proposal no matter what was in the NHL's offer.
 

Luck 6

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Oct 17, 2008
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Haha.

Sorry, brah.

Canucks got 35,000 dollars of mine for season tickets and my jimmies are getting severely rustled.

Haha I get it, I'm on edge too. I want to hear what the players say before I light my torch though. If its bad, I'm right behind you heh.
 

Crows*

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John Shannon on Vancouver radio stressing the NHL has had the desire for an 82 game schedule the entire time.
 

Iggy77

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Oct 5, 2009
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Even though the NHL offered a 50/50 split on Hockey Related Revenue is no reason for the NHLPA to accept their offer right away. Bob McKenzie and Darren Dreger were saying one issue the players won't accept right away is a 5 year limit on player contracts. So there is a lot of details which need to be worked out and everyone knows this deal won't happen within the next 24 - 72 hours.

If there's a deal made it will be made at the 11th hour before the deadline, both sides will push things to the limit.

Unless the NHLPA responds with their old garbage offer, it sounds like real negotiations have finally begun.

Now it gets interesting, based on the PA counter proposal, we'll see if they're close enough to make a deal
 

RipsADrive

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I'm sure Bettman knew the PA would reject and issue a counter proposal no matter what was in the NHL's offer.

Ya as much as I want a deal to be done it would be irresponsible of Fehr to simply recommend it as is without trying to fight some of the points he doesn't like.

I just hope he doesn't pick too big of a fight and set us back to square one.
 

Some Other Flame

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Dec 4, 2010
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I dunno...to me that's a hell of a lot closer than they were this morning.

The players concerns going into this were a) the definition of HRR, b) honouring of existing and already signed contracts, c) greater revenue sharing between rich and poor teams, and d) percentage split.

Lowering the 'pie' was a pretty big no-go for the players. They were in fact trying to increase the pot as it were, so lowering it would be a pretty big deal.

I also doubt they'd be overly happy with the idea of retired players taking a piece out of the pot. And I'm not sure how the owners propose the players pay themselves for the decrease in their salaries for the upcoming season, but that's something that would need to be looked at closely.

Still, the owners saying they're willing to honour contracts already signed is a big step forward.
 

WinterEmpire

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Mar 20, 2011
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You think you could give them 24 hours to read it and respond first. How do you know everything in it is fair, because Betman said so?:sarcasm:

Wait you mean to tell me you don't automatically sign hundred page documents because of what someone claims is in it?

Maybe I've been doing it wrong all along.
 

TruGr1t

Proper Villain
Jun 26, 2003
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The players concerns going into this were a) the definition of HRR, b) honouring of existing and already signed contracts, c) greater revenue sharing between rich and poor teams, and d) percentage split.

Lowering the 'pie' was a pretty big no-go for the players. They were in fact trying to increase the pot as it were, so lowering it would be a pretty big deal.

I also doubt they'd be overly happy with the idea of retired players taking a piece out of the pot. And I'm not sure how the owners propose the players pay themselves for the decrease in their salaries for the upcoming season, but that's something that would need to be looked at closely.

Still, the owners saying they're willing to honour contracts already signed is a big step forward.

It seems like you agree with me?

I think the owners went a long way in establishing a structure to address all of those points. The question of specifics can be hashed out (for example the aforementioned concern about active players supporting long-term retirement contracts), and of course I'm going off of the assumption the HRR definition is pretty darn close to the existing one.
 

newtron

Registered User
Jan 5, 2006
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Ottawa
I don't completely disagree with the OP. While the owners have submitted multiple offers in an attempt to get some negotiations going, the NHLPA seems too concerned with public perception and have pursued an all-out social media war against Bettman. Maybe if they'd come to the table earlier to start the process, I'd have more sympathy for them. And when was their last offer... nearly two months ago?

Anyways, hopefully they take this offer seriously and come back with a counter that is in the same ballpark.
 
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