Player Discussion: Ilya Sorokin

[YearlyLottery]

The last thread hit the 1,000 post mark, but as someone who played goalie fairly competitively I have a few thoughts and figured instead of saying "he sucks" or "calm down it was one game" it is better to take the discussion here.

The Pros:

1.) VERY athletic. He is quick side to side and that is something that will come in handy.

2.) Good down low with his stick and pads. For a smaller goalie I was impressed that he was able to take up so much space down there.

Now for the cons and there are a lot. The good news is I think many of these are fixable.

1.) His angles were way off. I understand that much of this is likely due to the rink size though. That being said, his angles were terrible. This is fixable though.

2.) He had difficulty being square to the shooter. This may have been due to nerves, but I do not think this has anything to do with the size of the rink. Sorokin failed at a basic skill last night. This is how the Scott Mayfield goal went in on him last night. Sure Mayfield made the error (and the ref), but Sorokin totally turned his body in the wrong direction for some reason.

3.) He lacks size. This is not fixable obviously. This is actually what worried me the most last night. He looked quite small in net.

-Now keep in mind, part of this is due to how passive he was playing in net. It was evident he had no idea how far to come out to challenge the shooter. I saw him either stay way too far back in his net or come out way too much to the point where the puck could bounce off of the boards and he would be caught.


This was Sorokin's first hockey game in 9 months. This SHOULD have been expected. Of course, due to us being fans we envisioned this happening differently. Korn and Greco will have some real film to dissect with Sorokin in preparation for a potential start against Boston tomorrow.

Also, Sorokin would have been helped greatly if he was able to start in the AHL for a few months similar to what the Rangers did last season with Shesty.

Barzal played the puck inside the penalty box in his first game and he turned out okay.

Click to read more...

 

[BillD]

The last thread hit the 1,000 post mark, but as someone who played goalie fairly competitively I have a few thoughts and figured instead of saying "he sucks" or "calm down it was one game" it is better to take the discussion here.

The Pros:

1.) VERY athletic. He is quick side to side and that is something that will come in handy.

2.) Good down low with his stick and pads. For a smaller goalie I was impressed that he was able to take up so much space down there.

Now for the cons and there are a lot. The good news is I think many of these are fixable.

1.) His angles were way off. I understand that much of this is likely due to the rink size though. That being said, his angles were terrible. This is fixable though.

2.) He had difficulty being square to the shooter. This may have been due to nerves, but I do not think this has anything to do with the size of the rink. Sorokin failed at a basic skill last night. This is how the Scott Mayfield goal went in on him last night. Sure Mayfield made the error (and the ref), but Sorokin totally turned his body in the wrong direction for some reason.

3.) He lacks size. This is not fixable obviously. This is actually what worried me the most last night. He looked quite small in net.

-Now keep in mind, part of this is due to how passive he was playing in net. It was evident he had no idea how far to come out to challenge the shooter. I saw him either stay way too far back in his net or come out way too much to the point where the puck could bounce off of the boards and he would be caught.


This was Sorokin's first hockey game in 9 months. This SHOULD have been expected. Of course, due to us being fans we envisioned this happening differently. Korn and Greco will have some real film to dissect with Sorokin in preparation for a potential start against Boston tomorrow.

Also, Sorokin would have been helped greatly if he was able to start in the AHL for a few months similar to what the Rangers did last season with Shesty.

Barzal played the puck inside the penalty box in his first game and he turned out okay.

Sorokin listed as 6'2" is not a lack of size.
No he isn't one of the 6'7" behemoths that are around the league, but not a small man.

 

[Big L]

Now for the cons and there are a lot. The good news is I think many of these are fixable.

1.) His angles were way off. I understand that much of this is likely due to the rink size though. That being said, his angles were terrible. This is fixable though.

As someone who has never played goal, but am a bit of a subject matter expert in geometry and angles, can you explain what you mean here? The NA rink is like 17 feet less wide than Europe. How does that affect angles? You still have 180 degrees in front of the net to save a shot, regardless of rink width. The shot from the sides is coming a little closer and sooner than you may be used to because the rink isn’t as wide, is that what you mean? I just don’t get from a geometry and angles perspective how anything is different. Still have shots from 180 degrees in front of the net to stop, regardless if the rink was 50 wide or 500 feet wide.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

The last thread hit the 1,000 post mark, but as someone who played goalie fairly competitively I have a few thoughts and figured instead of saying "he sucks" or "calm down it was one game" it is better to take the discussion here.

The Pros:

1.) VERY athletic. He is quick side to side and that is something that will come in handy.

2.) Good down low with his stick and pads. For a smaller goalie I was impressed that he was able to take up so much space down there.

Now for the cons and there are a lot. The good news is I think many of these are fixable.

1.) His angles were way off. I understand that much of this is likely due to the rink size though. That being said, his angles were terrible. This is fixable though.

2.) He had difficulty being square to the shooter. This may have been due to nerves, but I do not think this has anything to do with the size of the rink. Sorokin failed at a basic skill last night. This is how the Scott Mayfield goal went in on him last night. Sure Mayfield made the error (and the ref), but Sorokin totally turned his body in the wrong direction for some reason.

3.) He lacks size. This is not fixable obviously. This is actually what worried me the most last night. He looked quite small in net.

-Now keep in mind, part of this is due to how passive he was playing in net. It was evident he had no idea how far to come out to challenge the shooter. I saw him either stay way too far back in his net or come out way too much to the point where the puck could bounce off of the boards and he would be caught.


This was Sorokin's first hockey game in 9 months. This SHOULD have been expected. Of course, due to us being fans we envisioned this happening differently. Korn and Greco will have some real film to dissect with Sorokin in preparation for a potential start against Boston tomorrow.

Also, Sorokin would have been helped greatly if he was able to start in the AHL for a few months similar to what the Rangers did last season with Shesty.

Barzal played the puck inside the penalty box in his first game and he turned out okay.

The weird thing is I was thinking the same thing as the bolded above while watching the game. In fact, he looked so small in net that I had to look up his height and I was shocked to see he is listed at 6'3. That is taller than Varly. Is that possible or is it a mistake? Or are they listing him like 3-4 inches above his real height? He did not look 6'3.

 

[YearlyLottery]

The weird thing is I was thinking the same thing as the bolded above while watching the game. In fact, he looked so small in net that I had to look up his height and I was shocked to see he is listed at 6'3. That is taller than Varly. Is that possible or is it a mistake? Or are they listing him like 3-4 inches above his real height? He did not look 6'3.

Varlamov is also weights about 30-40 more than Sorokin.

 

[Uncle Duke]

As someone who has never played goal, but am a bit of a subject matter expert in geometry and angles, can you explain what you mean here? The NA rink is like 17 feet less wide than Europe. How does that affect angles? You still have 180 degrees in front of the net to save a shot, regardless of rink width. The shot from the sides is coming a little closer and sooner than you may be used to because the rink isn’t as wide, is that what you mean? I just don’t get from a geometry and angles perspective how anything is different. Still have shots from 180 degrees in front of the net to stop, regardless if the rink was 50 wide or 500 feet wide.

You should be thinking in terms of total area and calculus (the study of continuous change) rather than in simple geometric terms or as protractor laid out in front of the net. An intl rink is almost 20 percent larger in terms of sq ft. With that much more space to work with pucks will, as a general rule, take longer to get from one place to another on the ice. Since goalie positioning is primarily about anticipating what will happen based on not only where the puck is at this second but where it might be in another second, I think you can see how that might change what angle a goalie takes on one size rink vs another. The bottom line is that goalies playing on intl ice have that split second more to recover from a bad angle and therefore don't have to be as precise. That is, they can rely on athleticism more.

Oh, and by the way, while it is true that the puck technically has to get out into that 180 degree arc before it can then go into the net, the reality is that goals are scored from outside the 180 degree arc all the time and that a goalies focus has to be 360 degrees, this too will affect his or her angle because of, again, the speed of the puck moving side to side behind the net.

 

[TeamKidd]

Sorokin listed as 6'2" is not a lack of size.
No he isn't one of the 6'7" behemoths that are around the league, but not a small man.

No he isn't small.. he used really small pads tho

 

[YearlyLottery]

No he isn't small.. he used really small pads tho

He plays very small. He is also much lighter than Varlamov if the numbers I looked up are correct.

 

[Isles Junkie]

He looked really miserable last night. Gotta chalk it up to first game jitters though.

It seemed to me like he was deflecting shots off to the boards on purpose. With the smaller surface & faster players, it doesn't give his teamates as much of a chance to get the puck, as it likely does on international ice.

I say put him in against the Bruins. Give him a chance to wash away the bad taste right away.

 

[buud]

i feel like he did 'play' small, but it was more due to his style, than his actual size.

i was expecting him to start slowly, and slowly work his way into his comfort zone.

one thing that i liked is that he handles the puck better than Varly.

 

[Quickdraw2828]

He plays very small. He is also much lighter than Varlamov if the numbers I looked up are correct.

Varlamov has a Fred Flintstone thing going on.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Don't know what to say. Surely not what we had hoped for. We've seen goalies come in and play their first NHL game against us and shut us out, thought that would work both ways, lol.

Anyway, not going to worry too much about it, but he did look really bad for some who has played at the level he has for so long. I really thought he'd settle in after a bit, but looked like he never really got comfortable. Feel like Schneider is a smarter move against Boston for Sorokin and the Isles sake. Let Sorokin work a bit more with the goalie coaches before he gets another game.

 

[notDatsyuk]

As someone who has never played goal, but am a bit of a subject matter expert in geometry and angles, can you explain what you mean here? The NA rink is like 17 feet less wide than Europe. How does that affect angles? You still have 180 degrees in front of the net to save a shot, regardless of rink width. The shot from the sides is coming a little closer and sooner than you may be used to because the rink isn’t as wide, is that what you mean? I just don’t get from a geometry and angles perspective how anything is different. Still have shots from 180 degrees in front of the net to stop, regardless if the rink was 50 wide or 500 feet wide.

A lot of positioning is done based on what you see in front of you, specifically NOT the net, or the crease more than peripherally. You see the boards, the faceoff circles, the blue line, and you position yourself based on those clues. In international rinks, the circles and the points where the blueline meets the boards are farther to the side, so when you are used to positioning yourself by those and they are suddenly moved inward, you tend to be not as far to the side as you think, and therefore leave an opening on the short side.

I don't know if that helps or not. It's not a thought process, but just a feel. Having played in a lot of different sized rinks, all the way to international, I know the problem, but it's not necessarily easy to explain.

 

[LeapOnOver]

A lot of positioning is done based on what you see in front of you, specifically NOT the net, or the crease more than peripherally. You see the boards, the faceoff circles, the blue line, and you position yourself based on those clues. In international rinks, the circles and the points where the blueline meets the boards are farther to the side, so when you are used to positioning yourself by those and they are suddenly moved inward, you tend to be not as far to the side as you think, and therefore leave an opening on the short side.

I don't know if that helps or not. It's not a thought process, but just a feel. Having played in a lot of different sized rinks, all the way to international, I know the problem, but it's not necessarily easy to explain.

You would think if that was the case then he should have left the short side open on the Mayfield goal, yet it was quite the opposite. He covered too much of the short sided and left a yawning net far side. Not saying you are wrong. Perhaps he overcompensated because he still isn't used to the dimensions. Any way you cut it, he's not comfortable right now.

 

[JKP]

I'm not worried. Thrust in unprepared, hasn't played in forever, needs to adjust to the bigger rink and the team played like trash in front of him. He'll get acclimated. Should be OK. Expectations need to be tempered. At least they have some tape to work with now...

 

[BillD]

He'll be better. Saw a lot of his highlight reel saves, he was a very different goalie when in his element and flow. That is who he is. The guy has been scouted and has played over 5-6 years. Just keep Clusterf*** off the ice in warmups lol.

 

[Volek25]

He looked both very nervous and a bit unsure of himself, maybe with first game action and nhl rink size in actual game. I think he prob wants 2 of those goals back but he had ZERO defensive help. First goal was basically a 3-1, next panarin breakaway from the redline, played bad angle on Buch goal but another poorly defensive play, another 3-1 wide open net and PPG in the slot uncontested. So yes, I was very disappointed like everyone else, but the kid like they said was left hung out to dry. Hopefully a learning experience for him, gets more comfortable and moves forward...

 

[SCMURRAY]

He'll need time. 1st NHL game and 1st game since I think in almost 8 months. Alot of people with compare him to Shesterkin and his success but he also had 20+ games in the A before his NHL games. Give the white whale some time and he'll be a heck of goalie for this team

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It took Hasek's 3rd season to become the Goalie he was in the NHL. I am not saying Sorkin is Hasek or that it will take him this long to become a star NHL goalie. But there are adjustments from european game to the NHL. The ice configuration for one. He's in good hands in Mitch Korn though. Give him some time, I think he is going to be a stud.

 

[mm11]

would be nice to get AHL games in like Shesty did and get used to North America but yes I came away concerned

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

It's fine. The Isles don't need him to be that good considering all the offense they're packing.

 

[Islesfan22]

It’s only one game but yikes his positioning looked bad and he plays to deep in his net. He also seemed to have problems catching the puck on simple shots.

 

[Furkmyster]

His first game in a really long time. No pre-season games. Not overly concerned. Just keep Buttercup away from pre-game warm up shots on our tenders ...

 

[Bones45]

The last thread hit the 1,000 post mark, but as someone who played goalie fairly competitively I have a few thoughts and figured instead of saying "he sucks" or "calm down it was one game" it is better to take the discussion here.

The Pros:

1.) VERY athletic. He is quick side to side and that is something that will come in handy.

2.) Good down low with his stick and pads. For a smaller goalie I was impressed that he was able to take up so much space down there.

Now for the cons and there are a lot. The good news is I think many of these are fixable.

1.) His angles were way off. I understand that much of this is likely due to the rink size though. That being said, his angles were terrible. This is fixable though.

2.) He had difficulty being square to the shooter. This may have been due to nerves, but I do not think this has anything to do with the size of the rink. Sorokin failed at a basic skill last night. This is how the Scott Mayfield goal went in on him last night. Sure Mayfield made the error (and the ref), but Sorokin totally turned his body in the wrong direction for some reason.

3.) He lacks size. This is not fixable obviously. This is actually what worried me the most last night. He looked quite small in net.

-Now keep in mind, part of this is due to how passive he was playing in net. It was evident he had no idea how far to come out to challenge the shooter. I saw him either stay way too far back in his net or come out way too much to the point where the puck could bounce off of the boards and he would be caught.


This was Sorokin's first hockey game in 9 months. This SHOULD have been expected. Of course, due to us being fans we envisioned this happening differently. Korn and Greco will have some real film to dissect with Sorokin in preparation for a potential start against Boston tomorrow.

Also, Sorokin would have been helped greatly if he was able to start in the AHL for a few months similar to what the Rangers did last season with Shesty.

Barzal played the puck inside the penalty box in his first game and he turned out okay.

60 minutes in the NHL and you already have his pros and cons figured out.

Damn impressive.

 

[Bones45]

It took Hasek's 3rd season to become the Goalie he was in the NHL. I am not saying Sorkin is Hasek or that it will take him this long to become a star NHL goalie. But there are adjustments from european game to the NHL. The ice configuration for one. He's in good hands in Mitch Korn though. Give him some time, I think he is going to be a stud.

needs some chains around his neck......