OT: Ilitch Holdings hires PR firm to "get Detroiters and the media off their backs"

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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Jul 6, 2012
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Anthony Fenech is a piece of ****. I hate so much about Detroit print media.

You have dicks like Fenech and Carlos Monarrez trying to take up the Drew Sharp "everything sucks and is the worst" mantle. And you have ****ing Jeff Moss online with his blog of worthless personal attacks that people take to mean anything. Then, you have worthless team mouthpieces like HSJ. Can't we find some happy medium where it isn't EVERYTHING SUCKS AND I HATE MYSELF AND ALL OF YOU and ALL IS RAINBOWS AND PUPPIES? I suppose those reasoned, middle-ground storylines don't sell though.

I suppose the Athletic is alright...

E: Not at all saying the Ilitches shouldn't be held to the fire for basically lying about District Detroit and all that, just don't send a smarmy ass tweet about it with loaded language. Write an actual story of substance that could gain traction with people and maybe shame them into doing something, as opposed to "durr, they're tossing out ideas how to shut us all up". I hate Twitter because it engenders this kind of hot take, loaded verbiage.
 
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TheMule93

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Ezekial

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Don't want to pretend to know anything about what goes on in the city of Detroit but everything I've read about DD has been extremely disappointing. I gave them the benefit of the doubt in the process but they've let me down big time.
 

TatarTangle

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Sep 28, 2011
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Anthony Fenech is a piece of ****. I hate so much about Detroit print media.

You have dicks like Fenech and Carlos Monarrez trying to take up the Drew Sharp "everything sucks and is the worst" mantle. And you have ****ing Jeff Moss online with his blog of worthless personal attacks that people take to mean anything. Then, you have worthless team mouthpieces like HSJ. Can't we find some happy medium where it isn't EVERYTHING SUCKS AND I HATE MYSELF AND ALL OF YOU and ALL IS RAINBOWS AND PUPPIES? I suppose those reasoned, middle-ground storylines don't sell though.

I suppose the Athletic is alright...
Nobody is interested in facts; people just want to seek news for their confirmation bias which is why all you see is pandering by MSM even if they don't want to admit it, it's how they get viewership. More viewership = more ads = more revenue.
 
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Hen Kolland

Registered User
Feb 22, 2018
9,470
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Anthony Fenech is a piece of ****. I hate so much about Detroit print media.

You have dicks like Fenech and Carlos Monarrez trying to take up the Drew Sharp "everything sucks and is the worst" mantle. And you have ****ing Jeff Moss online with his blog of worthless personal attacks that people take to mean anything. Then, you have worthless team mouthpieces like HSJ. Can't we find some happy medium where it isn't EVERYTHING SUCKS AND I HATE MYSELF AND ALL OF YOU and ALL IS RAINBOWS AND PUPPIES? I suppose those reasoned, middle-ground storylines don't sell though.

I suppose the Athletic is alright...

E: Not at all saying the Ilitches shouldn't be held to the fire for basically lying about District Detroit and all that, just don't send a smarmy ass tweet about it with loaded language. Write an actual story of substance that could gain traction with people and maybe shame them into doing something, as opposed to "durr, they're tossing out ideas how to shut us all up". I hate Twitter because it engenders this kind of hot take, loaded verbiage.

Fenech has always been a "meh" reporter, but the way he conducted himself throughout the baseball season was atrocious. He is a disgraceful journalist and all in all seems like one of the bigger douchebags you could come across, and from the looks of it, his editor gave him free reign to just be a jackass this year. Maybe he was restrained in the past, but this year has been extremely, extremely bad.
 

SirloinUB

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Aug 20, 2010
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Don't want to pretend to know anything about what goes on in the city of Detroit but everything I've read about DD has been extremely disappointing. I gave them the benefit of the doubt in the process but they've let me down big time.

Like you, I won't pretend to know anything but living in Edmonton I've been watching the development of Ice District (the area surrounding the new Rogers Place Arena). Of course, these are different developers, cities and situations. That said, work is still being done in our new “district” - some projects are in progress others haven’t yet started but it is slowly coming along.

I would hope as the years pass, you will slowly see the district Detroit coming together much like our new downtown Edmonton Ice District has slowly came together. Truthfully there is still a lot of work left here and I wouldn't be surprised if it takes another 5 years.

To be clear, I'm not really following district Detroit or necessarily defending the Illitches, but from my experience watching a similar overhaul in my city I can say these things take time.
 

Steve Yzerlland

Registered User
Jul 18, 2018
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Anthony Fenech is a piece of ****. I hate so much about Detroit print media.

You have dicks like Fenech
and Carlos Monarrez trying to take up the Drew Sharp "everything sucks and is the worst" mantle. And you have ****ing Jeff Moss online with his blog of worthless personal attacks that people take to mean anything. Then, you have worthless team mouthpieces like HSJ. Can't we find some happy medium where it isn't EVERYTHING SUCKS AND I HATE MYSELF AND ALL OF YOU and ALL IS RAINBOWS AND PUPPIES? I suppose those reasoned, middle-ground storylines don't sell though.

I suppose the Athletic is alright...

E: Not at all saying the Ilitches shouldn't be held to the fire for basically lying about District Detroit and all that, just don't send a smarmy ass tweet about it with loaded language. Write an actual story of substance that could gain traction with people and maybe shame them into doing something, as opposed to "durr, they're tossing out ideas how to shut us all up". I hate Twitter because it engenders this kind of hot take, loaded verbiage.
Bro chill it's not that serious.....
 

Shaman464

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May 1, 2009
10,212
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Anthony Fenech is a piece of ****. I hate so much about Detroit print media.

You have dicks like Fenech and Carlos Monarrez trying to take up the Drew Sharp "everything sucks and is the worst" mantle. And you have ****ing Jeff Moss online with his blog of worthless personal attacks that people take to mean anything. Then, you have worthless team mouthpieces like HSJ. Can't we find some happy medium where it isn't EVERYTHING SUCKS AND I HATE MYSELF AND ALL OF YOU and ALL IS RAINBOWS AND PUPPIES? I suppose those reasoned, middle-ground storylines don't sell though.

I suppose the Athletic is alright...

E: Not at all saying the Ilitches shouldn't be held to the fire for basically lying about District Detroit and all that, just don't send a smarmy ass tweet about it with loaded language. Write an actual story of substance that could gain traction with people and maybe shame them into doing something, as opposed to "durr, they're tossing out ideas how to shut us all up". I hate Twitter because it engenders this kind of hot take, loaded verbiage.

You got to think about a city that says it can't afford to pay pensions/continue city services build 2 stadiums for the Illitchs and sells them a ton of land for next to nothing. And DD, the Wings, and Tigers are all dumpster fires. People are getting tired of it.
 

RedWingsDad

Registered User
Jul 30, 2013
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The subject of this thread is disingenuous... it implies that Ilitch Holdings said that they hired the PR firm to "get Detroiters and the media off their backs"

... when it fact it was just some twitter person who said it.
 

MBH

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The knee jerk "shoot-the-messenger" attitude in this thread is an example of why the Ilitches are wasting their money on a PR firm.
Sports fans do their PR for them.

The Ilitches are ultra-rich folks who use their money to make more money.
The LCA pipe dream was always BS.
Anyone who looked at the timeline and thought critically about it should have known that.

It was BS to convince the public to finance a stadium deal that is a license to print money.

Crony capitalism at its best. Funded up front by taxpayers.

As for the state of the teams? In real terms, who gives a f***. Teams win and lose.

Rich guys and their bought-off government lackeys manipulate the system. That's the only story here that actually matters.
 

Ricelund

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The subject of this thread is disingenuous... it implies that Ilitch Holdings said that they hired the PR firm to "get Detroiters and the media off their backs"

... when it fact it was just some twitter person who said it.
:huh:

It was said by a Free Press reporter, not a random person on Twitter.

But sure, the mods can add Fenech's name to the title if they feel it's "disingenuous".
 
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Shaman464

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The money used for pensions and used for the DDA are not one and the same. They just aren't. The vast majority of money that comes through the local (city and county) governments is earmarked from the moment it comes through. If these went to a millage (and it looks like they were part of the 18-mill non-homestead operating millage that was voted on in 2012), there are legal restrictions on what you can do with that money. I would have to look at exactly how the millage documentation is worded and what it prohibits vs allows, but an argument on this path is not a well-founded one. There is a surprisingly small amount of money that is truly "free" to be applied for whatever purpose you want to allot it for. And many of these assignments are the purpose of Detroit and Wayne County's board of commissioners, not anyone else.

I just think the finger of blame is being pointed in the wrong direction. If citizens of Detroit don't like DDA money being used for stadiums, don't vote for the electors who will pursue that. If they're unhappy with what happened with Comerica Park and Ford Field, how about they read a millage that they voted on?

The Ilitches are becoming slumlords... but it's equally incumbent on Detroit and Wayne County to prod them to go the right way.

Lastly,
Detroit Public Schools operating millage

Another likely ballot initiative is the renewal of an operating millage for Detroit Public Schools, which exists primarily to pay off debt. In 2016, a legislative initiative created a new entity — the now three-year-old Detroit Public Schools Community District — that exists solely to educate students.
The split was part of a sweeping plan to resolve the massive debt that had crippled DPS and its schools. While the millage revenue goes toward paying off debt, the newer district is funded through the state school aid fund, which provides per-pupil funding for schools in Michigan.
The operating millage revenue is important to projections that the old debt in DPS will be paid off in 2027.
“The complication for us is that these dollars are not funding our day-to-day operations.” Vitti said during that Sept. 27 committee meeting. “And for Detroit residents, that’s obviously a complicated structure and situation.”
The 18-mill operating millage generates $70 million annually in revenue and affects non-homestead property, which includes industrial, commercial and rental property. Homeowners are not affected by the millage.
The millage expires Dec. 31, 2022. August 2020 is the first opportunity the district will have to place a renewal before voters. They would have several more opportunities to put the question before voters before the millage expires. If voters reject it, bond holders could seek a judgement against all residents of the city, which would then affect homeowners.

This is the millage in question. It is quite literally specified that it is on non-homestead property (aka not taxing people's homes or included in their property tax). This is the millage that they were speaking about in relation to LCA (voted in 2012, 10 year millage, expires in 2022.

This money is not money that can legally be used to fund pensions or whatever. It simply can't. Nor can it be used to fund social services. It can be used to fund precisely what the millage states it can fund. This millage was bundled with the DDA and DPS and DPSCD.

If you want to get into an argument on bad fiscal management in the City of Detroit? I'm all ears and support that.

But it doesn't matter if there is a pool of 80 bazilion dollars for one thing next to an empty pool for another if the pool of 80 bazilion dollars was created by a voted millage. You have to understand the realities of the situation before you really dig into the meat of it, because you can't shuffle around money in state and local government for ****s and giggles. You or me as a member of the public might not see it all... but there is a **** ton of process that it all goes through.

I know that's not much solace to the pensioners in Detroit that do not get their money or people who have to worry about whether street lights will be on, but you can't just shuffle around millage money for fun.

E: One big arrow in a citizen's quiver is to attend the city council, county board of commissioners, etc. type meetings. I know that Washtenaw County holds these twice monthly and the vast majority of all appropriatable money must go before this board and be read aloud at these meetings. And documentation of a new millage going in front of them to go on the ballot must be read aloud and voted on by council members or commissioners. I do not know Wayne County's or Detroit's schedules... but if the citizenry has issues (and they should, because Detroit and Wayne County have been kind of an S-Show for decades), this meeting and the ballots when they vote these city council members and commissioners in are when they are meant to address them.

All of the tax monies and monies from state and federal sources require public hearings.

But yeah, let's go with "big bad Detroit and Mr. I working together to simply steal all the riches of the citizens and leaving them no options for anything".

I will finalize by saying that the Ilitches do need to work on District Detroit. It is ****ing appaling the state that their "development" is in. But that's something that the City and the County and the Public need to hold them to doing. If they're leaving blighted buildings, tell them that their abatements aren't going to renew when they run out. If they're not giving you the buildings you promised, go nuclear and withold funding from them until they break ground.

E2: I apologize... this is terribly formatted. I will eventually go through and clean it up.

If we are going to get into this, then we really will need to discuss the emergency financial manager, because the sweeping powers vested in him muddied these waters a lot. Also the pensions I was more worried about was the retired public safety officers (Fire and police).
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
11,436
7,446
The knee jerk "shoot-the-messenger" attitude in this thread is an example of why the Ilitches are wasting their money on a PR firm.
Sports fans do their PR for them.

The Ilitches are ultra-rich folks who use their money to make more money.
The LCA pipe dream was always BS.
Anyone who looked at the timeline and thought critically about it should have known that.

It was BS to convince the public to finance a stadium deal that is a license to print money.

Crony capitalism at its best. Funded up front by taxpayers.

As for the state of the teams? In real terms, who gives a ****. Teams win and lose.

Rich guys and their bought-off government lackeys manipulate the system. That's the only story here that actually matters.

People are reacting like this because Fenech is a knob. Nobody shot the messenger when Nolan Finley wrote his article (frankly, I don't know if anyone cared about that one, which might be worse). There are plenty of LEGITIMATE things to be pissed about the Ilitches doing. If people are truly upset about the system where rich guys and bought off government lackeys run the money show, they need to speak up, at the polls and otherwise. If what the Ilitches are doing in Detroit is so vile and such an inexcusable travesty, people have the ability to speak up about it.

The City of Detroit and Wayne County have the ability to adjust their tax abatements that they've set. They had grand ability when they went through bankruptcy with an emergency manager to do a whole hell of a lot that normally wouldn't fly.

It is awful fiscal management for a city to publically finance a sports stadium... particularly when they've financed two other ones in the past twenty years. The return for the city's money is universally terrible. However... it is up to the city and its people to stand against that. The City and even its citizens bear some responsibility if what the Ilitch family is doing is irreparably harming the City. If they're not matching their promise, where are the clauses in the contract you signed with them that let you claw back the tax breaks you're giving them? Where are the standards to which you are holding them? If the contract with Olympia Entertainment or Ilitch Holdings or whoever specifies that they must do this, this, and this and they haven't... why can't you hold them financially responsible?
 

MBH

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People are reacting like this because Fenech is a knob. Nobody shot the messenger when Nolan Finley wrote his article (frankly, I don't know if anyone cared about that one, which might be worse). There are plenty of LEGITIMATE things to be pissed about the Ilitches doing. If people are truly upset about the system where rich guys and bought off government lackeys run the money show, they need to speak up, at the polls and otherwise. If what the Ilitches are doing in Detroit is so vile and such an inexcusable travesty, people have the ability to speak up about it.

The City of Detroit and Wayne County have the ability to adjust their tax abatements that they've set. They had grand ability when they went through bankruptcy with an emergency manager to do a whole hell of a lot that normally wouldn't fly.

It is awful fiscal management for a city to publically finance a sports stadium... particularly when they've financed two other ones in the past twenty years. The return for the city's money is universally terrible. However... it is up to the city and its people to stand against that. The City and even its citizens bear some responsibility if what the Ilitch family is doing is irreparably harming the City. If they're not matching their promise, where are the clauses in the contract you signed with them that let you claw back the tax breaks you're giving them? Where are the standards to which you are holding them? If the contract with Olympia Entertainment or Ilitch Holdings or whoever specifies that they must do this, this, and this and they haven't... why can't you hold them financially responsible?

Step 1. An informed citizenry.
Hurdle: Sports fans with knee-jerk defenses of sports owners.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
44,017
11,677
People are reacting like this because Fenech is a knob. Nobody shot the messenger when Nolan Finley wrote his article (frankly, I don't know if anyone cared about that one, which might be worse). There are plenty of LEGITIMATE things to be pissed about the Ilitches doing. If people are truly upset about the system where rich guys and bought off government lackeys run the money show, they need to speak up, at the polls and otherwise. If what the Ilitches are doing in Detroit is so vile and such an inexcusable travesty, people have the ability to speak up about it.

The City of Detroit and Wayne County have the ability to adjust their tax abatements that they've set. They had grand ability when they went through bankruptcy with an emergency manager to do a whole hell of a lot that normally wouldn't fly.

It is awful fiscal management for a city to publically finance a sports stadium... particularly when they've financed two other ones in the past twenty years. The return for the city's money is universally terrible. However... it is up to the city and its people to stand against that. The City and even its citizens bear some responsibility if what the Ilitch family is doing is irreparably harming the City. If they're not matching their promise, where are the clauses in the contract you signed with them that let you claw back the tax breaks you're giving them? Where are the standards to which you are holding them? If the contract with Olympia Entertainment or Ilitch Holdings or whoever specifies that they must do this, this, and this and they haven't... why can't you hold them financially responsible?
The citizens had no say in the decision. They had a say in who they elected, but there is no guarantee what our elected officials will ultimately sign off on.

Blaming the citizens is a moronic take.
 
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