IIHF Mens World Rankings - Updated After 2018 WC

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by iginlafan77, May 21, 2018.

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  1. Eye of Ra

    Eye of Ra Registered User

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    we are better than russia, yes, we beat them in world cup 2016, best on best tournament....

    just compare best possible rosters....sweden has the upper hand even today....
     
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  2. Alessandro Seren Rosso

    Alessandro Seren Rosso Registered User

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    It's true that probably today Sweden is above Russia, but these rankings are about games played, not our fantasies
     
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  3. tony d

    tony d Registered User Sponsor

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    The collapse of Slovakia as a hockey nation is surprising. For a while they were looking like a team in the Germany/Switzerland area of hockey nations. Now they're going down and are further down than Norway which is a weaker hockey nation that you'd expect of Slovakia.
     
  4. tobu

    tobu Registered User

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    The collapse has stabilized. Slovakia have recently started to get some good results against the Top7. This year for example, only 9 seconds away from a 3 point win in the game against the Czechs - if the team would have held it, Slovaks would have eventually made the quarters and Switzerland would not. So little things. One of the only two teams to steal a point away from Sweden this year. The only team to have beaten Russia at the Olympics this year. It's really about consistency now and showing up for each game. The downward slope of Slovak hockey is probably over, the team will hover around the 9-10th spot for a while and will eventually start getting into the quarters. The U18 and U21 have better results than Switzerland, Germany and Norway so I think it's a matter of time till Slovaks start challenging the 7th and 8th spot again in seniors.
     
  5. kudla

    kudla Registered User

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    No, we were looking like a team in the sweden/czech area. Today, after 10 years we are on the edge of getting relegated
     
  6. Namejs

    Namejs The Buffalo Dahlins

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    There's a bit of an overreaction among Slovaks themselves regarding the demise of the Slovakian NT. Slovakia is pumping out way more talent than Norway, Latvia or Denmark. Their national team has underperformed, but the talent is there.

    They have less depth and less resources than Switzerland and the Big 6, but they are easily on par with Germany.

    Norway is in bad shape, so is Belarus.

    Latvia hasn't really progressed. We had a couple of really bad coaches and now we have a really good one. And an NHL goalie. Otherwise we're exactly at the same point we were in 1997 or 2008. Somewhere between 8th and 13th in the world. OK, we do have more depth overall, but other nations have improved as well.
     
  7. salamandra

    salamandra Registered User

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    LOL
    This season 14 slovak players have played in NHL. Young players like Cernak, K. Pospisil and Studenic next season will play in AHL. Other side only Zuccarelo has played in NHL this season and only one player in AHL. Slovak national leauge is more better like norwegian leauge.
    Some very good slovak prospects: Bucek, Ruzicka, Studenic, Hrehorcak, Liska, Krivosik, Fehervary, Roman, M. Pospisil, Cajlkovic, Bodak, Huska, Hrenak ...
    Some very good norwegian prospects: M. E. Pettersonn, Marthinsen and Gulbrandsen and thats all.
    Slovaks youth teams ended in WJC U20 and U18 to the seventh place last 5 years. Norwegian youth teams have played one/two category below last 5 years.
     
  8. kudla

    kudla Registered User

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    I am curious what will happen to latvia after generation around players like Daugavins, Karsums etc. will be gone. Are there any KHL talents besides Abols, Balcers, Dzierkals and Krastenbergs?
     
  9. salamandra

    salamandra Registered User

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    Blugers (94), Zile (97), Rubbins (97), Tralmaks (97), Cuktse (97), Bindulis (95), Girgensons (94), Jevpalovs (94), Smirnovs (99), Lapiks (00), Jasunovs (00)
     
  10. garbageteam

    garbageteam Registered User

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    If we went by these rankings Slovakia was ranked as high as #3 in the world in the 2000s and consistently flirted with top-5 numbers. No way they're below Norway IMO.

    Other than that aberration and Korea's very generous ranking, it's actually a fairly good system and no worse than FIFA's much maligned world rankings.
     
  11. kabidjan18

    kabidjan18 Registered User

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    Blugers. They have talent but it's not all elite talent. I would say they hold their position, no huge steps forward or back.
     
  12. Namejs

    Namejs The Buffalo Dahlins

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    Well, first of all, KHL produces a fraction of our talent. It's more of a slaughterhouse than a talent factory.

    You named 2 aging guys and 4 young prospects. You basically answered your own question there. And it's not like Daugavins is anywhere close to retiring, he turned 30 a few days ago.

    In a nutshell, we have a lot of young prospects in every position and we are settled for the next 10 years, at least. We're not going anywhere.

    Blueger ('94), Abols ('96), Girgensons ('94) and Jevpalovs ('94) are a group of centers who already are better than what our national team had 8 or 10 years ago. Then you have Tralmaks ('97), who's got great speed, great hands and huge potential, and younger prospects like Smirnovs ('99), as well as others. And I'm only talking about centermen.

    You've got young Ds in Rubins ('97, great size and reach, and he's pretty good at moving the puck up the ice too), Balinskis ('96), Jaks ('95), Cukste ('97), Zile ('97). We're settled there.

    We have more goalies than we need. Merzlikins ('94), Punnenovs ('94), Kivlenieks ('96), Grigals ('98), Mitens ('98) and others.

    You've got extremely skilled and speedy wingers in Balcers ('97), Dzierkals ('97). Honestly, both of them have better hands than Daugavins. And he's got pretty decent mittens himself. You also have plenty of other solid pro players like Lazarevs ('96), Razgals ('97), Batna ('97), as well as Krastenbergs ('98) and a bunch of other promising kids.

    If you would switch all the older guys for U-23 players, we would still be playing in the Elite tier.

    We're doing fine.
     
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  13. salamandra

    salamandra Registered User

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    No offence but you do not have lot of young players for an international confrontation. Lazarevs, Batna, Razgalas and Jaks are weak maybe average players nowadays. Abols did not succeed in SHL Jevpalovs is plyayer to the thirt/fourth formation in KHL. Cuktse and Rubbins are very skilled defenders. Balcers, Blugers, Dzierkals and Tralmaks are very skilled forwards. They are the great future of Latvian hockey.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  14. Namejs

    Namejs The Buffalo Dahlins

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    For an international confrontation? I'm not sure what it means.

    I've been following Latvian hockey since the early 90s, so I'm pretty sure I have the expertise to tell you that we have more depth and a lot of talent at every position.

    The original question was about change of guard and whether we have enough young prospects coming up to replace all the players born in the 80s. That was the point of reference. The answer is a resounding 'yes'.

    Razgals and Lazarevs are future bottom 6 guys. If one or both of them don't pan out, we have other prospects to replace them. 10 or 15 years ago our bottom 6 guys played in the German 3rd division, Denmark or Belarus, not NLA, AHL or KHL.

    As for Abols, Blueger didn't score at all in his rookie season, that's not indicative of anything. Abols has all the fundamentals to be productive at the SHL level and he will be in 18/19.
     
  15. kabidjan18

    kabidjan18 Registered User

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    Blueger joined at the end of the season and in the playoffs, where Abols was with the team at the start of the season and had to be loaned. Making rules out of exceptions is also not the best idea.

    Fans will always view younger prospects, though Abols is hardly "young" anymore, with rose colored glasses. I could be wrong, I could be very wrong. I think he'll make his way back to Riga in some capacity eventually, after adequate but unspectacular stints in Sweden.

    To the overall point, I've already expressed agreement. Latvia has no reason to panic...
     
  16. Namejs

    Namejs The Buffalo Dahlins

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    I was highly skeptical of Blueger after that disaster of a season in the AHL too. But I always give players the benefit of a doubt when they're switching from junior/collegiate hockey to pro hockey. Sometimes it doesn't immediately work out and they're only awarded 4th line minutes in effect. It doesn't matter if they're 18 or 20.

    If you're looking at the stat sheet, Abols was terrible in the SHL, but he did become a PPG guy in Allsvenskan at the tail end of the season, and he became better as the season went on. PPG players in Allsvenskan tend to be pretty decent. Jonathan Dahlen is a PPG guy in Allsvenskan. Most players scoring at Abols rate become about 0.50+ PPG players in the SHL.

    He has the size, the skating, the hands to be good at every level he plays. He was one of our leading forwards in the World Champs. It's not like he can't handle SHL-level opposition. He handled NHL players quite well.

    Seriously, I don't have any rose tinted glasses. It's obvious he's going to be a solid SHL/KHL-tier guy. With some upside still.

    Abols played in the Q in 16/17. His next competitive games were in SHL. 'Unspectacular stints' my arse.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  17. kabidjan18

    kabidjan18 Registered User

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    My point was that he came on at the tail end of the season after the NCAA. The team was already complete in it's composition and tactical schemes. He was essentially just shipped into the town and thrown onto the bench. That's totally different from what happened with Abols, who started the season with Orebro. He had his chance to be integrated into the team and earn a spot all throughout pre-season camp and he didn't. Two entirely different scenarios. Neither was 18 or 20 either. Abols was 21, now 22. Blueger was 21 I believe.

    Dahlen was PPG in 2016-17, and he's 2 years younger than Abols.

    Some do some don't. Michael Haga did not. That wasn't true for Marcus Nilsson either. Or Janos Hari. Or Mathias Brome. Not Jesper Jensen immediately. Not Jacob Lagace. Not Jordan Smothermann. Not Joey Tenute. Pathrick Westerholm also took two years as well. In fact, I'm having a hard time figuring out who you're referring to at all who did. If your answer is Jonathan Dahlen and Elias Petterson, you're certainly free to make the parallel but I think a distinction would be more prudent. Otherwise, there isn't much precedent for athletes near PPG in the Allsvenskan scoring .50+ PPG their next season in the SHL recently. It's not impossible, of course. But I can't figure out what precedent you're referring to with your statistical claim.

    He probably squandered the most chances of all your forwards at the World Champs, that is true. He fit a role in a system effectively against teams that had NHL players, that's different from individually having the caliber of those athletes.

    When you take a statement that should be rated "possible" or generously "probable" and you call it "obvious", it doesn't really back up the whole not having rose tinted glasses claim. I have already conceded that I hold the less popular, and likely the less probable position, but the stretch from "probable" to "obvious" seems to be aided by something other than reason.

    Yes. Many players go from Junior level hockey one year to Senior level hockey the next. This is not particularly shocking. Is there normally an intermediate step?
     
  18. Namejs

    Namejs The Buffalo Dahlins

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    Dahlen was PPG in 17/18. I guess he's a massive bust.

    I'm not sure what you're saying right now. Are you saying that Abols isn't going to cut it at SHL? He's going to score a single point in 25 games next season? You're writing off Allsvenskan. It's a pro league too. His transition to pro hockey went bad early in the season and then he proved himself.

    Abols is already a solid player, I'm not making any future predictions about his development, I'm guesstimating his productivity in SHL based on how good he currently is. 20 points in 40 games would be excellent.

    He's a great 3C for our national team. If Tralmaks is as good as everyone thinks he is, Abols might even become our 4C. I'm not a personal fan of his, we're discussing the depth and the future of the Latvian NT over here. We have never had an SHL-tier 3C. Now we do. That's the entire point.
     
  19. kabidjan18

    kabidjan18 Registered User

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    What?

    He'll be fine, I doubt he'll be .50+, it's entirely possible.

    Sure, seems reasonable.
     
  20. salamandra

    salamandra Registered User

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    It means that Abols, Lazarevs, Batna are only average players and they are to supplement the team nowadays.

    Mikelis Redlihs played in KHL (circa 40 points per season), Nizivijs played in KHL (previously Russian leauge, circa 35 points per season), Janis Sprukts played Liiga/AHL/NHL/KHL (circa 40-50 points per season), Vasiljevs played in DEL (circa 50-55 points per season), young players like Darzins who played KHL (circa 30 points per season 09/10), Duagavins played AHL season 09/10, Stals (AHL/ECHL, Belarus/KHL), Tambijevs (Liiga/NLA/NLB/Dennmark/Russia/Russia) ... But less competitive 15 years ago.
     
  21. Namejs

    Namejs The Buffalo Dahlins

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    You're way, way out of your element.

    Redlihs recorded 14 points in 39 games in Allsvenskan when he was at Abols age.

    Sprukts recorded 11 points in 21 games in Mestis.

    Nizivijs played at exactly the same PPG pace in Allsvenskan *at his prime*.

    Darzins was less productive at Abols age in the CHL and recorded 2 points in Liiga himself in his rookie pro season. Pretty similar trends there.

    Vasiljevs was a complete player and he was better in terms of skill. But he's a smaller winger and not a C.

    Daugavins recorded 3 points in 23 games in the AHL at Abols age.

    I have absolutely no idea why you brought Stals up. At his peak he was at the current level of Batna and Razgals. A 4th-liner.

    You named 6 random players whose careers have spanned from 1990 up until 2018. They have never played together. What function did it serve?

    I genuinely have no idea what's your point.

    We have half a dozen Stals in that age range ('94-'98), leading prospects excluded.
     
  22. albator71

    albator71 Registered User

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    nonsense :facepalm:
     
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  23. QnebO

    QnebO Wheel, snipe, celly

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    Finland was like 1st, then they hired Marjamäki
     
  24. Uncle Rotter

    Uncle Rotter Registered User

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  25. garbageteam

    garbageteam Registered User

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    They've never been first before; only Canada, Sweden and Russia have.
     

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