Proposal: If you were David Poile what do you do in the off-season? Just for fun

[Roman Yoshi]

Time for Poile to step aside. He has been great but can’t it done in the playoffs

I'm not sure about this but history doesn't paint him in a great light right now.

Assuming Karlsson doesn't stay in San Jose... What about you trade Subban for second line scoring help and then take a run at Karlsson? I know he may not be as good in his own zone as Subban, but if you are able to move Subban for forward help it may be worth the downgrade.

Plus a healthy Karlsson is amazing. Tell him to take as much time as he needs to heal up.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

EK would be an upgrade if he's healthy. that's if he is ever healthy again.

anyone a fan of maybe going after kevin hayes instead if we miss out on duchene?

i think duchene will get a lot of money.

 

[glenngineer]

Time for Poile to step aside. He has been great but can’t it done in the playoffs

This thought crossed my mind this morning.

 

[glenngineer]

Sign Duchene

Trade Ellis, Turris and PK for Draisaitl and Larsson

Time to give the forwards more offensive freedom, use more defensive defenders and decrease the age of the starting lineup a bit.

Forsberg - Draisaitl - Arvidsson
Granlund - Johansen - Duchene
...

Josi - Larsson
Ekholm - Fabbro
...

That package we're offering isn't going to land Draisaitl. I know the Oilers need D but there is no way they'd trade a young center who just scored 100 points for that package. Remove Larson and they still don't do it.

 

[triggrman]

I'm not sure about this but history doesn't paint him in a great light right now.

Assuming Karlsson doesn't stay in San Jose... What about you trade Subban for second line scoring help and then take a run at Karlsson? I know he may not be as good in his own zone as Subban, but if you are able to move Subban for forward help it may be worth the downgrade.

Plus a healthy Karlsson is amazing. Tell him to take as much time as he needs to heal up.

So I'm not a fan of having so many pmd anymore. I think the NHL is moving more towards guys that can make that quick pass and using speed up the middle (centers) and fast wingers to break it out. And when we do need the pmd to carry it, we still have that in spades, even if we get rid of Subban. I don't like our system or our team build right now at all, not for this newer NHL. If you take our defensemen skating out of our equation, we can't break out as we have no speed up the middle, and very little up front period.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

EK would be an upgrade if he's healthy. that's if he is ever healthy again.

EK looks too risky to me. Ever since the achilles thing I'm not sure he has been the same. He still got all the ice and green lights to pile up numbers, but he's a total liability in his own zone. We've already got a D corps that is too light and too prone to getting outmuscled in our zone. EK isn't going to fix anything. He's going to cost $10M+ on a long-term deal. That's scary risk.

I'd rather we just found a way to make it easier to turn Josi and Subban loose more. Get a more stable partner for Josi and then let Josi fly... if he had the green lights that EK has had throughout his career, I think Josi could pile up 70+ points too. He just needs the freedom to really jump on every rush and fly the zone every time like EK does. But he can't have Ellis as his partner anymore. He needs a d-first partner and he needs a coaching staff which is going to promote that plan.

anyone a fan of maybe going after kevin hayes instead if we miss out on duchene?

i think duchene will get a lot of money.

Hayes looks awfully vanilla to me. Would he be better than Turris? Anything would be better than this year's version of Turris, so I guess it's not exactly any harm. I do agree that we shouldn't get too invested in picking up Duchene - that's a nice dream, but like the Tavares fantasy last off-season, it seems a little too much to hope for. I don't know what the 2C solution might be, but I agree they have to try something.

 

[Mustard]

EK looks too risky to me. Ever since the achilles thing I'm not sure he has been the same. He still got all the ice and green lights to pile up numbers, but he's a total liability in his own zone. We've already got a D corps that is too light and too prone to getting outmuscled in our zone. EK isn't going to fix anything. He's going to cost $10M+ on a long-term deal. That's scary risk.

I'd rather we just found a way to make it easier to turn Josi and Subban loose more. Get a more stable partner for Josi and then let Josi fly... if he had the green lights that EK has had throughout his career, I think Josi could pile up 70+ points too. He just needs the freedom to really jump on every rush and fly the zone every time like EK does. But he can't have Ellis as his partner anymore. He needs a d-first partner and he needs a coaching staff which is going to promote that plan.


Hayes looks awfully vanilla to me. Would he be better than Turris? Anything would be better than this year's version of Turris, so I guess it's not exactly any harm. I do agree that we shouldn't get too invested in picking up Duchene - that's a nice dream, but like the Tavares fantasy last off-season, it seems a little too much to hope for. I don't know what the 2C solution might be, but I agree they have to try something.

You're better than Turris at this point.

 

[Scoresberg]

If you can find a way to unload Turris' contract, you throw anything but the kitchen sink at Duchene.

 

[Mustard]

Here's my list of priorities. Mostly doing this to vent:

-Get SOMETHING for Turris. Just get him off the team.
-Keep Boyle
-See ya, Wayne-Train. We hardly knew ye.
-See ya, Salomaki, Rinaldo, McLeod (Please).
-Re-sign Rocco.
-If it makes sense hockey-wise, trade Subban. Purely because his value is extremely high still, and with Fabbro looking ready, is more or less redundant. We need scoring more than we need D, and $9mm can go a long way towards scoring.
-Sign one of EK65, Duchene (will be overpaid), Breadman, Skinner.
-Pray Tolvanen is ready.
-Trade Bonino. 4.1m is expensive redundancy.

Ideal Lineup:
JOFA
Granlund-Duchene-Smith
Tolvanen-Snossis-Boyle
Bonino/UFA-Jarnkrok-Watson

Josi-Ellis
Ekholm-Fabbro
Hamhuis-Weber/Irwin/UFA

Pekka/Juuse 50/50

 

[KurtAngle]

Sign Duchene

Trade Ellis, Turris and PK for Draisaitl and Larsson

Time to give the forwards more offensive freedom, use more defensive defenders and decrease the age of the starting lineup a bit.

Forsberg - Draisaitl - Arvidsson
Granlund - Johansen - Duchene
...

Josi - Larsson
Ekholm - Fabbro
...

Arvidsson, the zero point playoff guy on the front line? I love Arvy's hustle, but he is useless in the playoffs.

 

[Gh24]

Unless the cap space is desperately needed, Bonino isn't traded. He's gold defensively.

I want to see Ellis and Ekholm re-united and Fabbro paired with Josi. This with the assumption that we're moving Subban.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Arvidsson, the zero point playoff guy on the front line? I love Arvy's hustle, but he is useless in the playoffs.

He's not useless. He got some good looks when the pace picked up in the last game. He's a player though that thrives on a certain style of game, and if things open up and the teams start trading chances, he'll get his breaks. You can't really go wrong with the goals he scored for the contract he's on. He's not the guy who controls the game. But if the team is playing the right way and pushing the play, he'll get his goals.

 

[Gh24]

Dallas shut down most of the plays that rely on or strongly benefit from Arvi's speed and hustle. He was unable to play at his strengths and the line couldn't find a way to adjust. Disappointing playoffs for him for sure, but not because he was bad per se.

 

[Viqsi]

Why is Tampa trading Stamkos for Subban? They already have Hedman, McDonagh, Cernak, Stralman and Sergachev. Not that all of them are better than Subban, but it seems like a deal that easily makes them worse.

Stralman is a 32-year-old UFA so he may not stick around for much longer, and their defense kind of fell apart in short order. It's not completely implausible. That said, I wouldn't be holding my breath on that move - most notably because it's a slight cap increase for TB, and they're desperately trying to shave cap off so they can keep Point.

* * *​

Trade Ellis, Turris and PK for Draisaitl and Larsson

Edmonton would reject that; they desperately need forwards because they've spent the last few years assuming "hey, we have McDavid/Draisaitl/RNH, that's good enough" and trading away all of their depth for peanuts.

 

[LCPreds]

Arvidsson, the zero point playoff guy on the front line? I love Arvy's hustle, but he is useless in the playoffs.

This thread is "just for fun", right?

"Just for fun" I wonder what we could get in return for Arvy. I'm mainly trying to understand what folks perceive to be his value relative to other players. For example, if a Laine were available is that a 1:1 swap based on potential? Kyle Conner? Conner is relatively similar in the regular season and put up relatively good numbers in the postseason. Laine had a down year but is also 21 years old with tons of potential (and showed up in the playoffs).

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Edmonton would reject that; they desperately need forwards because they've spent the last few years assuming "hey, we have McDavid/Draisaitl/RNH, that's good enough" and trading away all of their depth for peanuts.

Draisatl is too much to ask for. But I've been attracted to the Ellis for Larsson+ idea that has been floating around for a while.

If two birds could be killed with the same stone... anything that would make Ellis+Turris for RNH+Larsson work would be really interesting. What do we have to add? Jarnkrok? Do we have to take Lucic with some retention back? I'd be exploring this stuff anyway...

 

[Viqsi]

Draisatl is too much to ask for. But I've been attracted to the Ellis for Larsson+ idea that has been floating around for a while.

If two birds could be killed with the same stone... anything that would make Ellis+Turris for RNH+Larsson work would be really interesting. What do we have to add? Jarnkrok? Do we have to take Lucic with some retention back? I'd be exploring this stuff anyway...

Honestly? I don't think there's anything we can do to get offense from Edmonton. They just don't have the depth to spare anymore - indeed, they ran out a ways back but still kept trading away scoring guys. I really think we'd have to look elsewhere.

...and if I had any ideas off the top of my head, I'd share.


EDIT: To emphasize the point - most teams, when you look at their offense, there'll be a couple names that everyone knows, and then a bunch of depth names that folks overlook but assume are generally present. Like, for the Preds, folks know JOFA, and then there's extra guys like Smith and Granlund and the like. For the Jackets, folks know Duchene and Panarin and (increasingly) Atkinson, and then there's other guys like Anderson and Dubois and Bjorkstrand and so forth.

Edmonton has McDavid, Draisaitl, and RNH... and absolutely nobody else. Lucic produces next to nothing. Puljujarvi and Yamamoto can't reach double digits in points, let alone goals or assists. Khaira hasn't found anything like a scoring touch. The closest they get to another depth guy is when they put Alex Chaisson up on the top line and he proceeded to get 20-some goals (a career high) more or less by McDavid Osmosis.

We had a rough offensive year, but we still had 12 players with 30 or more points. Edmonton had five. FIVE.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Honestly? I don't think there's anything we can do to get offense from Edmonton. They just don't have the depth to spare anymore - indeed, they ran out a ways back but still kept trading away scoring guys. I really think we'd have to look elsewhere.

...and if I had any ideas off the top of my head, I'd share.

If it was just Ellis for Larsson+pick/prospect that would be fine. We don't need to take their offense.

But I guess if they thought Jarnkrok added something to their offense (ok, dunno why they'd think that) and that Turris was kind of a poor man's RNH... well, it'd be nice if they thought that was more along the lines of bolstering their depth than taking away from it.

 

[predfan24]

I can't wrap my head around the Poile comments. Since the 16-17 cup run Poile has systemically addressed most of the supposed shortcomings on the roster.

Weak depth at C? Went out and signed a well renowned 3rd line C in Bonino. Traded for Turris in early 17-18 and got him signed to a long term deal. On paper, Turris looked to be an ideal 2c. We went from playing the SC finals with Sissons as the 1c to having Joey, Turris, Bonino by November the following season.

3rd D pairing a little weak? Brought in an old face in Hammer. Fabbro has a good junior year in college and has seemed to turn out. Poile gets him signed amid "Vesey" fears and improves the third pairing.

It's more than fair to speculate that the coaching staff and leadership on the team comes to the conclusion that the team might be a little immature/lack character. Poile goes out and gets Mcleod and Boyle.

PP sucks? Most of the year the narrative was the Preds lacked a big guy to take away the goalies eyes, tip pucks and find the loose pucks around the net. Poile goes out and gets one the most well respected PP specialists in the league for a guy who fell out of favor with the coaching staff and was good as gone.

Lacking secondary scoring? Poile shows commitment to winning now by trading his talented but underachieving, and perhaps unhappy, young forward for an older more refined forward who averaged a .86 ppg the previous two seasons. That's a 70pt/82 game pace! Also, Granlund is known as a PP specialist. Killing two birds with one stone.

Most of these moves didn't work out. That feels like coaching to me. Poile did his job.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

I can't wrap my head around the Poile comments. Since the 16-17 cup run Poile has systemically addressed most of the supposed shortcomings on the roster.

Weak depth at C? Went out and signed a well renowned 3rd line C in Bonino. Traded for Turris in early 17-18 and got him signed to a long term deal. On paper, Turris looked to be an ideal 2c. We went from playing the SC finals with Sissons as the 1c to having Joey, Turris, Bonino by November the following season.

3rd D pairing a little weak? Brought in an old face in Hammer. Fabbro has a good junior year in college and has seemed to turn out. Poile gets him signed amid "Vesey" fears and improves the third pairing.

It's more than fair to speculate that the coaching staff and leadership on the team comes to the conclusion that the team might be a little immature/lack character. Poile goes out and gets Mcleod and Boyle.

PP sucks? Most of the year the narrative was the Preds lacked a big guy to take away the goalies eyes, tip pucks and find the loose pucks around the net. Poile goes out and gets one the most well respected PP specialists in the league for a guy who fell out of favor with the coaching staff and was good as gone.

Lacking secondary scoring? Poile shows commitment to winning now by trading his talented but underachieving, and perhaps unhappy, young forward for an older more refined forward who averaged a .86 ppg the previous two seasons. That's a 70pt/82 game pace! Also, Granlund is known as a PP specialist. Killing two birds with one stone.

Most of these moves didn't work out. That feels like coaching to me. Poile did his job.

im a poile fan and i totally agree.

every single weakness we as fans have complained about, poile has addressed. he has also been in on just about every blockbuster. coaching is where i look at.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

The only thing we have left to do honestly is move one of our highly touted D men for an upgrade on the second line while also dumping Turris. I think the guy has worn out his welcome in the room based on a couple of interviews.

 

[Pr0fet]

Arvidsson, the zero point playoff guy on the front line? I love Arvy's hustle, but he is useless in the playoffs.

We'll, Ill let you flip Arvidsson for Duchene on the front line if youd like that better! Not sure Id like the second line then though.

 

[predfan24]

I think it's fair to say, due to age, this is the most important off-season left in Poile's career. He has some really tough decisions to make.

 

[Pr0fet]

Honestly? I don't think there's anything we can do to get offense from Edmonton. They just don't have the depth to spare anymore - indeed, they ran out a ways back but still kept trading away scoring guys. I really think we'd have to look elsewhere.

...and if I had any ideas off the top of my head, I'd share.


EDIT: To emphasize the point - most teams, when you look at their offense, there'll be a couple names that everyone knows, and then a bunch of depth names that folks overlook but assume are generally present. Like, for the Preds, folks know JOFA, and then there's extra guys like Smith and Granlund and the like. For the Jackets, folks know Duchene and Panarin and (increasingly) Atkinson, and then there's other guys like Anderson and Dubois and Bjorkstrand and so forth.

Edmonton has McDavid, Draisaitl, and RNH... and absolutely nobody else. Lucic produces next to nothing. Puljujarvi and Yamamoto can't reach double digits in points, let alone goals or assists. Khaira hasn't found anything like a scoring touch. The closest they get to another depth guy is when they put Alex Chaisson up on the top line and he proceeded to get 20-some goals (a career high) more or less by McDavid Osmosis.

We had a rough offensive year, but we still had 12 players with 30 or more points. Edmonton had five. FIVE.

Probably right, but if there is one organization you could pull this off with its Edmonton....*kidding*. A 17/18 Subban should be really high on their wish list though as should a 17/18 Ellis.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I can't wrap my head around the Poile comments. Since the 16-17 cup run Poile has systemically addressed most of the supposed shortcomings on the roster.

Weak depth at C? Went out and signed a well renowned 3rd line C in Bonino. Traded for Turris in early 17-18 and got him signed to a long term deal. On paper, Turris looked to be an ideal 2c. We went from playing the SC finals with Sissons as the 1c to having Joey, Turris, Bonino by November the following season.

3rd D pairing a little weak? Brought in an old face in Hammer. Fabbro has a good junior year in college and has seemed to turn out. Poile gets him signed amid "Vesey" fears and improves the third pairing.

It's more than fair to speculate that the coaching staff and leadership on the team comes to the conclusion that the team might be a little immature/lack character. Poile goes out and gets Mcleod and Boyle.

PP sucks? Most of the year the narrative was the Preds lacked a big guy to take away the goalies eyes, tip pucks and find the loose pucks around the net. Poile goes out and gets one the most well respected PP specialists in the league for a guy who fell out of favor with the coaching staff and was good as gone.

Lacking secondary scoring? Poile shows commitment to winning now by trading his talented but underachieving, and perhaps unhappy, young forward for an older more refined forward who averaged a .86 ppg the previous two seasons. That's a 70pt/82 game pace! Also, Granlund is known as a PP specialist. Killing two birds with one stone.

Most of these moves didn't work out. That feels like coaching to me. Poile did his job.

Totally agree that this is on coaching more than anything. This roster still looks great on paper, but the on ice performance was lacking. Ultimately, more than anything else our undoing was the terrible power play and Poile did a lot to address it yet the coaching still couldn't make it work. A league average PP gets us around 13 more goals in the regular season and 3 more goals in this series against Dallas. If that had happened we would have easily won the division and very likely have won this series. Columbus had an awful PP in the regular season too but were actually willing to bring in St. Louis from the outside and it worked and was a large part of them sweeping Tampa Bay. In contrast, Laviolette's idea to fix the problem was to switch which one of our assistant coaches were in charge and make very minor adjustments to what we're doing. The inability to fix the team's most glaring problem for the entire season and to follow up by saying he doesn't know what's wrong with it screams to me that it isn't going to get any better with him at the helm. Looking at our roster we have the offensive talent to be better than the 19th best offensive team in the league and that to me falls squarely on coaching.