If you had the choice...

[GMR]

How do the Panthers and Hurricanes generate any revenue? Those teams should be defunct by now. Same thing with the Coyotes. The league has too many teams playing in non-traditional markets that don't generate any fan attendance or TV ratings. I understand a non-traditional market like Nashville sells out and has a good team, but what about these others which perpetually struggle every year? How can a new franchise be justified when there's already a watered down league with several irrelevant franchises that play in markets where no one cares about hockey?

 

[TheMule93]

How do the Panthers and Hurricanes generate any revenue? Those teams should be defunct by now. Same thing with the Coyotes. The league has too many teams playing in non-traditional markets that don't generate any fan attendance or TV ratings. I understand a non-traditional market like Nashville sells out and has a good team, but what about these others which perpetually struggle every year? How can a new franchise be justified when there's already a watered down league with several irrelevant franchises that play in markets where no one cares about hockey?

They don't generate revenue, but they stay afloat because of revenue sharing

 

[Sparty]

In the past year, or so the owner of Rockets (Tilman Fertitta) has expressed interest in owning an NHL franchise.

While the league is set at 32 teams - rumors of course continue to swirl of the potential for the Yotes to relocate from Phoenix to Houston.

Next stop, Houston? Coyotes to move to Central Division

It's kind of disingenuous to say he has "expressed interest." Some reporter asked him if he would like to bring an NHL team there and he just said he would do it for the right price, which is what all these guys always say.

Hell I'd buy an NHL franchise for the right price too, but my "right price" is like a tenth of a fraction of what he'd pay, lol.

 

[FMichael]

It's kind of disingenuous to say he has "expressed interest." Some reporter asked him if he would like to bring an NHL team there and he just said he would do it for the right price, which is what all these guys always say.

Hell I'd buy an NHL franchise for the right price too, but my "right price" is like a tenth of a fraction of what he'd pay, lol.

Well...Not sure what to tell you, but if you were to take the time, and type in 'NHL in Houston' in Google search - you'd find yourself looking at numerous sources of how Bettman, and the BoG are keenly aware of Fertitta's desire.

For those lucky enough as myself who have Sirius XM radio - I listen to the NHL channel while running errands, and picking up my rugrats...It's been talked about for some time that Houston wants a franchise.

In other words - it's really nuthin new...

 

[FMichael]

They don't generate revenue, but they stay afloat because of revenue sharing

This right here...

Winnipeg, and QC circa '95 didn't have the measures in place to help financially that the league has today.

 

[ricky0034]

How do the Panthers and Hurricanes generate any revenue? Those teams should be defunct by now. Same thing with the Coyotes. The league has too many teams playing in non-traditional markets that don't generate any fan attendance or TV ratings. I understand a non-traditional market like Nashville sells out and has a good team, but what about these others which perpetually struggle every year? How can a new franchise be justified when there's already a watered down league with several irrelevant franchises that play in markets where no one cares about hockey?

not sure about the Hurricanes but the Panthers technically make more money than they lose because they got a good deal on a lease for their arena that's contingent on there being a hockey team there and rake in a bunch of money off concerts and such

IIRC the current deal ends in a few years or so so could be interesting to see what happens with that

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

not sure about the Hurricanes but the Panthers technically make more money than they lose because they got a good deal on a lease for their arena that's contingent on there being a hockey team there and rake in a bunch of money off concerts and such

IIRC the current deal ends in a few years or so so could be interesting to see what happens with that

Still far away if I remember right, like a decade off.

 

[Frk It]

not sure about the Hurricanes but the Panthers technically make more money than they lose because they got a good deal on a lease for their arena that's contingent on there being a hockey team there and rake in a bunch of money off concerts and such

IIRC the current deal ends in a few years or so so could be interesting to see what happens with that

Yeah, I used to work there awhile ago, and their corporate sponsorship team also did a great job at selling every inch of that arena and making money.

There are other ways to make money other than ticket sales.

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

I think in a perfect world the Coyotes go to Houston, the Hurricanes go to QBC, and the Panthers move to Wisconsin/Milwaukee.

 

[PelagicJoe]

How do the Panthers and Hurricanes generate any revenue? Those teams should be defunct by now. Same thing with the Coyotes. The league has too many teams playing in non-traditional markets that don't generate any fan attendance or TV ratings. I understand a non-traditional market like Nashville sells out and has a good team, but what about these others which perpetually struggle every year? How can a new franchise be justified when there's already a watered down league with several irrelevant franchises that play in markets where no one cares about hockey?

This is exactly how I have felt about Phoenix and Carolina. The league realized they made a mistake with Atlanta and corrected that one. Expanding into Minnesota was a no brainer. I'm still on the fence regarding Columbus. Nashville seems to be doing ok revenue wise, but having a good team also helps that.
If the market is large enough, I guess hockey in the South works (Tampa, Dallas, Anaheim.) Atlanta was a bust. Arizona is a bust and should have been relocated or made defunct at least 15 years ago if not more.
We will see how Vegas pans out. I think last year's performance was somewhat of a fluke. I will eat the hat like Kronwall55 if I am wrong.

 

[PelagicJoe]

I think in a perfect world the Coyotes go to Houston, the Hurricanes go to QBC, and the Panthers move to Wisconsin/Milwaukee.

I forgot about the Panthers. That's another hit or miss franchise. Wisconsin obviously has a big hockey market. I wonder if the NHL would work in Portland, OR or some place like Cincinnati, Cleveland, Kansas City?

 

[Ezekial]

I forgot about the Panthers. That's another hit or miss franchise. Wisconsin obviously has a big hockey market. I wonder if the NHL would work in Portland, OR or some place like Cincinnati, Cleveland, Kansas City?

I make the Kansas City Bandits on NHL as my custom team. Idk why, I have no affinity for the city. They support their teams, that's for sure.

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

I make the Kansas City Bandits on NHL as my custom team. Idk why, I have no affinity for the city. They support their teams, that's for sure.

KC just has no hockey culture. I dated a girl from there in college, and she lived football and baseball.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Having hockey in a non hockey market is flat out stupid

Don't care if Houston is North American 5th biggest city

 

[Bench]

Having hockey in a non hockey market is flat out stupid

Don't care if Houston is North American 5th biggest city

Depends if you care about turning a profit shortly or if you want hockey to grow long-term.

It's a non-hockey market because they didn't grow up with hockey. NHL expansion isn't about 10 years, it's about the next 100 years. It's about creating an interest in the sport that makes kids want to sign up for youth hockey, and watch the sport, and one day, join the NHL. Dallas has a thriving youth hockey scene and is creating generations of new fans in part because the Stars toughed it out during some lean years. It's never going to be Toronto, but that's not the point. Convincing Canadians to enjoy hockey is easy. Finding new fans and markets, that takes time, and a healthy dose of patience.

If you care about hockey as a whole, it's to your benefit to support expansion into new markets. The health of the game is only improved by seeing new regions create the next generation of both fans and players. When Texas starts producing players that routinely have impact on NHL games, you better believe interest will climb. That's the end game. Hang with it. We're going to be old men by the time the markets that looked weak become staples of the league, but there's evidence it's happening in places, and that's worth pursuing.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Depends if you care about turning a profit shortly or if you want hockey to grow long-term.

It's a non-hockey market because they didn't grow up with hockey. NHL expansion isn't about 10 years, it's about the next 100 years. It's about creating an interest in the sport that makes kids want to sign up for youth hockey, and watch the sport, and one day, join the NHL. Dallas has a thriving youth hockey scene and is creating generations of new fans in part because the Stars toughed it out during some lean years. It's never going to be Toronto, but that's not the point. Convincing Canadians to enjoy hockey is easy. Finding new fans and markets, that takes time, and a healthy dose of patience.

If you care about hockey as a whole, it's to your benefit to support expansion into new markets. The health of the game is only improved by seeing new regions create the next generation of both fans and players. When Texas starts producing players that routinely have impact on NHL games, you better believe interest will climb. That's the end game. Hang with it. We're going to be old men by the time the markets that looked weak become staples of the league, but there's evidence it's happening in places, and that's worth pursuing.

Right

I wont argue as I think there would be no end point if I did so.

 

[Bench]

Right

I wont argue as I think there would be no end point if I did so.

You could explain why you think expansion into non-traditional markets is "flat out stupid." I explained why I think it's not and the value I see in trying to create hockey markets throughout the country. The end point is you provide a new frame of reference to the conversation that people might enjoy participating in. Or perhaps there's something in my reply I overlooked. It's a discussion, not a winner/loser argument.

Unless you want it to be, nerd. (got 'um)

 

[FMichael]

I think in a perfect world the Coyotes go to Houston, the Hurricanes go to QBC, and the Panthers move to Wisconsin/Milwaukee.

As a native 'Cheesehead' our chances of landing an NHL franchise came, and went back in the early 90's (the franchise set for Milwaukee went to TB).

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

As a native 'Cheesehead' our chances of landing an NHL franchise came, and went back in the early 90's (the franchise set for Milwaukee went to TB).

Read that whole story this afternoon afternoon I posted that comment. Really wish they would’ve gone into Milwaukee instead of Tampa. There are quite a few interviews expressing pessimism around the idea of Wisconsin getting a team, but considering Florida’s arena deal I could see Fiserv being an attractive alternative for Viola or a new ownership group.

Viola is also from New York, so if someone got in his ear and convinced him to take the Cats to Hartford that’d be incredible.

 

[Winger98]

Depends if you care about turning a profit shortly or if you want hockey to grow long-term.

It's a non-hockey market because they didn't grow up with hockey. NHL expansion isn't about 10 years, it's about the next 100 years. It's about creating an interest in the sport that makes kids want to sign up for youth hockey, and watch the sport, and one day, join the NHL. Dallas has a thriving youth hockey scene and is creating generations of new fans in part because the Stars toughed it out during some lean years. It's never going to be Toronto, but that's not the point. Convincing Canadians to enjoy hockey is easy. Finding new fans and markets, that takes time, and a healthy dose of patience.

If you care about hockey as a whole, it's to your benefit to support expansion into new markets. The health of the game is only improved by seeing new regions create the next generation of both fans and players. When Texas starts producing players that routinely have impact on NHL games, you better believe interest will climb. That's the end game. Hang with it. We're going to be old men by the time the markets that looked weak become staples of the league, but there's evidence it's happening in places, and that's worth pursuing.

Sooo much this. Even if you're really impatient, and you want to see a tangible result of expanding into non-traditional markets right now, here it is: Auston Matthews. Born in Cali, grew up in Arizona, developed an interest from watching the Coyotes.

Other than wanting to bag on markets people don't like, I'm not sure why this conversation is being had without mentioning the Flames. Bettman has been banging the drum for a new arena for them for awhile and, so far, the city has been saying, "well, then you should pay for it." If the city won't fund a new play thing for rich people, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Bettman start using moving them as a hammer to get a deal he wants.

 

[GMR]

KC just has no hockey culture. I dated a girl from there in college, and she lived football and baseball.

And college basketball. KC missed its window on getting another NHL / NBA team 10 years ago. There's not even any discussions of it anymore.

 

[Snuggs]

I'm going to piggy back Ezekial and Berg Era's first comments.

1. No way I want the Wings in the West.

2. Better markets than QBC, imo. QBC competes too much within Quebec with Montreal imo, I think Halifax should get a team adding the fan-bases of all Nova Scotia and heavy amounts of fans from New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island depeding on how they did the broadcast deals. Milwaukee/Portland easily come to mind also.

3. I get the Phoenix traditionally isn't a good market but, man it'd help if the team was competitive ever... lol. It's a growing city like Vegas and I doubt the billionaire ownership moves out with a growing population around the area.

4. Houston isn't perfect, but with the potential to grow the overall game/fan-base, Might not be the worst idea. Dallas isn't exactly a terrible hockey town. An there's an in-state rivalry almost already built in. I don't think mentioning Houston is the same as saying a place like San Diego or Atlanta again.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

This right here...Houston - while a massive market - is a gamble that the league might be willing to take.

QC is almost certain to make $$$ - however Jeremy Jacobs, and possibly a good portion of the BoG feel it's not worth going back there any time soon - which to be honest is a shame.

A group of 30 billionaires might know a little more about this than your average fan. Quebec City doesn't present the fiscal windfall those wishful thinkers hope. Both Milwaukee and Quebec City in terms of often mentioned targets have troubling analysis when they do the in depth studies.

Things might change to consider the markets but to date they are well behind Houston, Portland and a few others including Toronto 2 which I don't expect but remains the most attractive Canadian expansion/relocation target. I don't see expansion being a hot topic for a while.

 

[Flowah]

developed an interest from watching the Coyotes.

That is absolutely hilarious given what the Coyotes are and have been.

Apparently you don't even need a particularly good team. Though I'm sure it helps increase viewership and fandom.

That said, I never felt that among my friend group in middle school, high school, college, when the Wings were in their prime, that the fan base for the Wings was particularly big. It always seemed like everyone else was always talking about the Lions, the Pistons, or the Tigers. It was always super sad to me that people were more interested in the new Lion's coach who was totally going to turn things around over anything to do with the Wings. "We'll care when it's the playoffs." Ugh.

 

[Winger98]

That is absolutely hilarious given what the Coyotes are and have been.

Apparently you don't even need a particularly good team. Though I'm sure it helps increase viewership and fandom.

That said, I never felt that among my friend group in middle school, high school, college, when the Wings were in their prime, that the fan base for the Wings was particularly big. It always seemed like everyone else was always talking about the Lions, the Pistons, or the Tigers. It was always super sad to me that people were more interested in the new Lion's coach who was totally going to turn things around over anything to do with the Wings. "We'll care when it's the playoffs." Ugh.

I was going to say that the yotes were competing against the Arizona Cardinals and the Diamondbacks but...wow, Tigers and Lions were awful then... . I always got the impression that the Lions (and Wolverines) were much bigger than the Wings. Tigers less so, but their seasons overlapped less. I was always more of a baseball person, and that group of Tigers were like the second group that I really latched onto (the first were Tram and Lou, and oddly enough Mike Henneman). I really liked Travis Fryman and Bobby Higginson, despite those teams being so bad. Long story short, I totally get Matthews latching onto a team, even if they're bad.