if the players are the product of the game...

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LordHelmet

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May 19, 2004
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dakota said:
i think it would work as long as the prices are a bit lower... people would support the new players imo ... especially if your team gets on a winning streak... its amazing how we as fans forget things when your team is winning... many goto the games as a form of entertainment as well not just for the hockey... its a night out. I went to the Rogers House Charity event with Kirk Muller and Lindros playing in January at the Corel Centre and it was a fun night out with some buddies... the hockey as so so but it was still a good night out.
Problem though... With the high non-player costs associated with the NHL, even if the owners payed every single replacement $300,000 (the minimum salary as presented in the NHL's final few proposals) they'd have to pull in almost $1B in revenues to break even... I think that the league will struggle to pull in that kind of revenues even if a CBA was settled today..
 

Wetcoaster

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tantalum said:
Orca Bay made those profits not the canucks. They are different entities. Canucks profit is part of it but not the only part of it in a relatively busy building.
According to the reports and statements by Burkie that was the profit attributed to the Canucks not all the Orca Bay operations.
 

mackdogs*

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Wetcoaster said:
According to the reports and statements by Burkie that was the profit attributed to the Canucks not all the Orca Bay operations.
Got a link to back that up?
I've heard this type of thing posted so many times about the Canucls but it has never been proven. Please provide a link of the 30 and 20 million dollar profits.
 

Fan-in-Van

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Dec 13, 2004
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Weary said:
Then isn't it quite foolish of the owners to spend advertising dollars promoting their workers? Successful companies promote their products, not their workers.

Yes, very foolish in my opinion. Bettman came in and attempted to implement a marketing plan based on the NBA model, especially in new markets that were unfamiliar with the game and its history. This model was about promoting the stars of the game, not the game itself. To some extent this model worked quite well in the new markets. Though some may argue that the sunbelt franchises are not the success that they need to be, you also must concede that hockey popularity and awareness in places like Nashville (though still nominal) is greater than it was a few years ago.

However, long term franchise success is not about promoting an individual star. It is about building a loyalty to a brand. Us fans, though we may like certain players, show loyalty to the team over and above the player. Thus, when a star from your team signs a FA deal somewhere else or is traded to another team, sure you may watch the highlights and reminisce, but you move on. Your loyalty is to your team, not the player.

For successful franchises, the players embody the brand. Calgary for years has marketed the "Young Guns" brand of hockey where every player brings his hardhat to work. This brand has been built partially out of necessity as they are unable to lure the top notch stars into their market. This being said, they have arguably to most dominant and one of the most promotional assets in Jerome Iginla. And yes, he is front and center in their promotions, but he is an embodiment of the brand that Calgary has created and continues to create.

The same holds true in Vancouver. The franchise turned around several years ago when they reached out to the community with a "Your Vancouver Canucks" campaign. They had billboards all over town with pictures of the core team members and their nicknames ("Nazzie", "Bert", "Cookie", etc). The folks down at Orca Bay were successful in building up a familiarity with this group. We could relate to this team, and we supported them. The Canucks brand also embodied things like being a fast skating, offensive-minded, fun to watch team. We liked the brand of the team.

Given the above, I think that when this thing does resume, the teams will have to work hard to repair the damage as our loyalty to the brand will be truly tested. Many of the American teams or teams that have consumed the NBA Kool-aid of promoting the stars, not the team, will have difficulties. I believe that a significant percentage of their fans do not yet have loyalty to the brands as this has not been the marketing strategy that was executed . If it does come down to replacement players skating in the shirts of our favourite teams, then this will make it even harder for these teams. Teams like Calgary that have built up loyalty to the brand, will succeed.
 

dakota

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EndBoards said:
Problem though... With the high non-player costs associated with the NHL, even if the owners payed every single replacement $300,000 (the minimum salary as presented in the NHL's final few proposals) they'd have to pull in almost $1B in revenues to break even... I think that the league will struggle to pull in that kind of revenues even if a CBA was settled today..

if i take $300,000 x 700 players = 210 million... and that is if they pay all the players the same salary...

i dont know about the other costs associated with the NHL....
 

shveik

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dakota said:
if i take $300,000 x 700 players = 210 million... and that is if they pay all the players the same salary...

i dont know about the other costs associated with the NHL....

If you beleive the NHL figures, then all of the players costs amounted to 50mil/team with revenue of 70mil per team, and resulted in losses of 10mil/team. Simple math says that the non-player expenses to have the team running are 30mil/team. That's the absolute bottom line (again, assuming you believe the leagues numbers, which I do not). Add to that whatever salaries and benefits you think the replacements will cost, and that's your revenue needed to break even.
 

futurcorerock

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Nov 15, 2003
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EndBoards said:
Your point is riduculous. By that logic, the beer league that I play in produces the same product that the NHL produced...

Oh but wait, we don't get 15,000 fans showing up at our games.. Why? Because we aren't NHL quality players... Why don't minor league teams get 15,000 fans at their games? Because they aren't NHL quality players..

You can go on and on all you want saying that the players aren't the product, but if 'the product' is only produceable by 700 people, then they are as good as the product..
No, by my logic, the beer league you're in produced a cheaper, generic brand than the NHL. I buy the NHL product because it's name brand and I know i'm getting quality

Jarome Iginla > You
 

LordHelmet

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May 19, 2004
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futurcorerock said:
No, by my logic, the beer league you're in produced a cheaper, generic brand than the NHL. I buy the NHL product because it's name brand and I know i'm getting quality
Thank you for making my point perfectly. An NHL without the 150-200 players that make it the elite league of hockey is a cheaper, generic brand of hockey.

futurcorerock said:
Jarome Iginla > You
Jarome Iginla is also > Cooter McPuckinstick that the league brings in as his replacement. Again, you prove my point perfectly. Whether you define the players as the product or not, the effect of their absence is the same as if they were.
 

LordHelmet

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May 19, 2004
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dakota said:
if i take $300,000 x 700 players = 210 million... and that is if they pay all the players the same salary...

i dont know about the other costs associated with the NHL....
I'm using the $779 million cited in the Levitt report. $779MM + $210MM = $989 MM

And someone made the point that reopening with replacements is just a temporary measure to attract union members across the lines. Sure, some guys could cross, but not many will for a salary of $300,000.
 

PecaFan

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Nov 16, 2002
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mackdogs said:
Got a link to back that up?
I've heard this type of thing posted so many times about the Canucls but it has never been proven. Please provide a link of the 30 and 20 million dollar profits.

No kidding. This gets bigger and bigger every time.

Burkie said the profits for the team *and* arena were in the teens on Sportstalk.

Now supposedly we're up to $30 million for the team alone. By next month, we'll be seeing $30 or $40 million! A billion! From hot dog sales alone!
 

me2

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Jun 28, 2002
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PecaFan said:
No kidding. This gets bigger and bigger every time.

Burkie said the profits for the team *and* arena were in the teens on Sportstalk.

Now supposedly we're up to $30 million for the team alone. By next month, we'll be seeing $30 or $40 million! A billion! From hot dog sales alone!


It doesn't add up that well either.

Using Forbes the Leafs made $14.1m on $117m in revenue and player expenses of $69m ($48m above salaries to run the team).

Using Forbes the Nucks made $1.3m on $74m in revenue and player expenses of $45m ($29m above salaries to run the team).


Either
the quoted numbers for Toronto are way off
OR
Toronto has terrible money management skills and used sheets of gold leaf for toilet paper
OR
The nucks hockey team did not make $30m in hockey profit.
OR
The Nucks somehow ran the entire team without paying travel, coaches, office staff, etc.
OR
Forbes is a useless as it appears
 
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Johnnybegood13

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Jul 11, 2003
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ScottyBowman said:
Players should get as much as an owner in a market will pay them.
Is your name George by chance? :shakehead

Yeah lets forget about the league as a whole and have all the top players go to 3-4 teams....you sir, are not a real hockey fan :banghead:
 
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