If the Pens win a Cup in 2020 - 2029...

[RizzleMcRib]

Could the case be made for the Pens as the top franchise in NHL history (Post expansion)?
( I used solidify, but wasn't the word I was looking for)

That would be 4 straight decades with a Cup. 3 of them being in the cap era.

Click to read more...

 

[dr robbie]

No...
They haven't even had a dynasty yet, much less the top franchise in history.
Why is the season still so far off...

 

[RizzleMcRib]

No...
They haven't even had a dynasty yet, much less the top franchise in history.
Why is the season still so far off...

Name 1 team that has won back to back Cups in the cap era ... I'll wait.
3 Cups to be exact (in 4 trips to the finals).
Name 1 team other than Montreal that has won Cups in 3 straight decades post expansion... I'll wait.
Only Montreal has won more Cups than us post expansion. O of which came in the Cap era.

If they won in 2020 - 2029 that would be 4 straight decades. Only Montreal has done that. Again 0 in the cap era.

 

[BHD]

If they win in the next few years, then they would have to be in the conversation.

Hell, Bettman called the 2010-2015 Blackhawks a "dynasty", even though they were eliminated in the first round (2011, 2012) during that time.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

If they win in the next few years, then they would have to be in the conversation.

Hell, Bettman called the 2010-2015 Blackhawks a "dynasty", even though they were eliminated in the first round (2011, 2012) during that time.

In my opinion they should already be in that conversation. I may be in the minority, but I think there is a case to be made.

 

[dr robbie]

Name 1 team that has won back to back Cups in the cap era ... I'll wait.
3 Cups to be exact (in 4 trips to the finals).
Name 1 team other than Montreal that has won Cups in 3 straight decades post expansion... I'll wait.
Only Montreal has won more Cups than us post expansion. O of which came in the Cap era.

If they won in 2020 - 2029 that would be 4 straight decades. Only Montreal has done that. Again 0 in the cap era.

Who cares that it's in the cap era? You stated that the Pens would be the top franchise in NHL history. I bold that statement because that's a bold, ignorant statement. NHL history predates the Penguins franchise by 50 years. That's 50 years of history that you're just ignoring? How would their 6 (in your scenario) Cups compete with the 34 of the Canadiens or the other 7 teams that have more Cups overall? Heck, even Chicago has more Cups in their history (13) and the same number of Cups in the cap era (3). So, how would the Pens be considered better than them? Not only that, you even state that Montreal has done all of this before...

It's a ludicrous statement. I'm a Pens fan, but you don't need to prop them up on weird, hypothetical scenarios and then ascertain that they are even better than teams with over double their success and achievements. They're a great team and I'm glad they are the franchise I follow. No, they aren't in contention for the top franchise in NHL history. And another Cup in the next decade won't change that.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Who cares that it's in the cap era? You stated that the Pens would be the top franchise in NHL history. I bold that statement because that's a bold, ignorant statement. NHL history predates the Penguins franchise by 50 years. That's 50 years of history that you're just ignoring? How would their 6 (in your scenario) Cups compete with the 34 of the Canadiens or the other 7 teams that have more Cups overall? Heck, even Chicago has more Cups in their history (13) and the same number of Cups in the cap era (3). So, how would the Pens be considered better than them? Not only that, you even state that Montreal has done all of this before...

It's a ludicrous statement. I'm a Pens fan, but you don't need to prop them up on weird, hypothetical scenarios and then ascertain that they are even better than teams with over double their success and achievements. They're a great team and I'm glad they are the franchise I follow. No, they aren't in contention for the top franchise in NHL history.

Ok so for you I'll rephrase it "Post Expansion Franchise"
I'm not gonna count a 6 team NHL where you had an almost 20% chance to win the Cup.

So since expansion
Only Montreal has more Cups so I'll give them the nod there...
Edmonton is the only other team with 5.
Montreal won at least 1 in 4 straight decades.
If (like the heading says) wins in the 2020's that will make 4 decades and 6 cups. Putting them ahead of Edmonton.

And yeah, I'll take into account the cap era. Why shouldn't I?
An era where you actually had to build a team compared to buying it. You know an age of this thing called parity...

 

[BHD]

There's some worthwhile discussion to be had here. Be respectful or you won't be allowed to participate.

 

[canadianguy77]

Hard to count anything before '67. Canadiens essentially had the picks of the litter for the 1st half of the leagues history. I would start to count after the draft was implemented, which was mid 60's, and then the 1st expansion was in '67. So that seem like a pretty reasonable time-frame to begin from. I still think anyone using logic has to go with Montreal, unless another team gets to 7 cups first.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Hard to count anything before '67. Canadiens essentially had the picks of the litter for the 1st half of the leagues history. I would start to count after the draft was implemented, which was mid 60's, and then the 1st expansion was in '67. So that seem like a pretty reasonable time-frame to begin from. I still think anyone using logic has to go with Montreal, unless another team gets to 7 cups first.

Maybe solidify was the wrong word... I was looking for make a serious case for...

 

[heysmilinstrange]

No, this argument doesn't really make sense to me. Winning a cup in 4 consecutive decades is great because winning cups is great, but that achievement doesn't mean that the team has sustained its success, which is what you'd have to do to be the best franchise in NHL history.

 

[Turin]

Cups in a 6 team league don’t count, so sure.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

No, this argument doesn't really make sense to me. Winning a cup in 4 consecutive decades is great because winning cups is great, but that achievement doesn't mean that the team has sustained its success, which is what you'd have to do to be the best franchise in NHL history.

How does it not show sustained success?
Cup wins are the ultimate sign of success. There is only 1 team that has won more since 67.

NYI just have their 4 Cups in a row. That's the only argument they have. But haven't won since.
Edmonton 5 Cups all in the span of 7 years. That's not very sustained over a long period of time

 

[BlackAndGold87]

I always thought dynasties were 3 or more championships in a 10 year span.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

 

[Andy99]

I always thought dynasties were 3 or more championships in a 10 year span.

I believe it’s 3 championships in 4-5 years I think depending on the sport...hockey is 3 in 4 years I think...

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I'd say a strong case could be made. Either way it's impressive.

 

[Peat]

I mean, as Rizzle says, we're already in the conversation for post-expansion. I think extending the success another decade only strengthens the case.

Anyway, ask again after we draft our next pair of generational superstars

 

[BlackAndGold87]

I believe it’s 3 championships in 4-5 years I think depending on the sport...hockey is 3 in 4 years I think...

I can see that, but anytime you win 3 chips in a 10 year span is very impressive.

 

[BlackAndGold87]

I mean, as Rizzle says, we're already in the conversation for post-expansion. I think extending the success another decade only strengthens the case.

Anyway, ask again after we draft our next pair of generational superstars

Of course the NHL will rig the draft for us.

 

[Gurglesons]

1. Post 67’ we have an argument as one of the better teams, but when you look at how bad the Penguins were for periods of their existence. It’s hard to argue.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

How does it not show sustained success?
Cup wins are the ultimate sign of success. There is only 1 team that has won more since 67.

NYI just have their 4 Cups in a row. That's the only argument they have. But haven't won since.
Edmonton 5 Cups all in the span of 7 years. That's not very sustained over a long period of time

It doesn't show sustained success because even though the Penguins won multiple Cups in multiple decades, they had multiple periods of disappointing and even bad seasons.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

We missed the playoffs 4 times in the last 3 decades. That looks like sustained success to me.

 

[BHD]

Nothing good is coming from this.

 

[BHD]

Okay...

We're going to give this another go. If we can't have a civilized discussion, then it'll be closed for good.