If the Leafs miss the playoffs, does Dubas keep his job?

[BertCorbeau]

If you translate his interviews with russian outlets he basically says the brown nosing to the coach (babs) disgusts him and hates that brownnosing is the only way to ensure icetime. He finds no accountability for players based on anything except favourites

Any source links on this out of curiosity?

 

[LeafsNation75]

He finds no accountability for players based on anything except favourites

That would explain why all of last season he never gave any criticism about Patrick Marleau, however right away at training camp he didn't know what role Jason Spezza could do and goes onto make him a healthy scratch on opening night.

 

[Dekes For Days]

C'mon now Brannigan, surely you can't question numbers that tell you the team that allowed the fewest goals in the NHL last season was actually bad defensively.

1. You keep saying bad, when that's not what I said. I actually gave an in-depth explanation for both years, which you ignored. They were average to slightly above average last year, and below average this year, while being boosted significantly by their goaltending.
2. Maybe actually bring something to the table instead of repeatedly mocking valuable stats that you seem to have no answer for?

We should all realize by now that the actual results have no place in the theoretical world of hockey analysis.

It's not "theoretical". It's what actually happened.

 

[Dekes For Days]

All he's doing is peddling garbage blog stats, which are absolutely not what's used in the NHL in any way shape or form.

It's baffling how people use limited stats like GA in the wrong way, and then make fun of stats that show more accurate, in-depth details about what's going on and being discussed. They aren't complicated, and they are in no way "garbage". They are much closer to what is used in the NHL than "GA".

 

[Dekes For Days]

No matter the cost Dubas gets a free pass on that?

It's not "no matter the cost". But we know the cost, and a protected 1st isn't an unreasonable cost for what we had to trade.

 

[Dekes For Days]

LL was left Robidas/Lupul and especially Phaneuf's contract which the genius Dubas couldn't move and he dumped them all pain free.

1. What do you mean which Dubas couldn't move? Dubas was not GM.
2. Robidas and Lupul weren't "dumped". They were sent to a cap loophole that would have been an impossibility for Marleau.
3. Phaneuf had way more value at the time than 6.25m in dead cap and 4.25m in dead money.

He left Dubas great deals for Rielly/Kadri/Andy

Andersen signing was a huge risk, and arguably above market value. Kadri and Rielly signings were market value. Just 3 positive value contracts and multiple massively negative ones is not a good starting point.

and 1m to much for Z

Millions and multiple years too much for Zaitsev, who also forced himself off the Leafs.

and a year too long for Marleau

A year too long for a broken down, 6.25 mil Marleau, who forced a time-sensitive trade for a buyout.

also had Dubas not overpaid Tavares/Mathews/Marmer/Nylander

He didn't overpay any of them.

 

[Dekes For Days]

let him play the year and stay away from the Barrie deal. Trade AJ. done.

1. That's not enough money. You need more moves.
2. Marleau was a liability on the ice. Keeping him makes this team worse.
3. LW was the weakest position for the Leafs. We didn't know about Engvall. We didn't know about Mikyehev. We didn't know about Timashov. Hyman was injured to start the year. If we had moved Johnson, our LW depth would have been HORRIBLE. Johnsson had more value, especially to a team like the Leafs at the time, than a late 1st.
4. With no Barrie trade, we are now missing a defenseman, with Ceci as our only RHD. What top 4 (realistically top 2) RHD are you signing for 2.75m or less?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Can always involve another team if that’s the case.

Ah yes, all those other teams that had 6.25 mil in cap space to spare last summer, and 4.25 mil in real cash to throw into the wind, pre-free agency no less. Not like it was one of the biggest league cap squeeze years in the entire cap era or something...

 

[All Mod Cons]

I really really like Kyle's drafting. But i find his trading to be a bit suspect, going back all the way to retaining on Kessel.

 

[Dekes For Days]

But i find his trading to be a bit suspect, going back all the way to retaining on Kessel.

Kessel was traded 3 years before Dubas was named GM...

 

[All Mod Cons]

Kessel was traded 3 years before Dubas was named GM...

Dubas orchestrated the Kessel deal by all accounts

 

[egd27]

1. You keep saying bad, when that's not what I said. I actually gave an in-depth explanation for both years, which you ignored. They were average to slightly above average last year, and below average this year, while being boosted significantly by their goaltending.
2. Maybe actually bring something to the table instead of repeatedly mocking valuable stats that you seem to have no answer for?

It's not "theoretical". It's what actually happened.

My apologies, I suppose I should have said the team with the fewest goals allowed last season was not good defensively rather than bad defensively.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas orchestrated the Kessel deal by all accounts

According to who? The Kessel deal was clearly an organizational move.

Only in here is the GM blamed for something (that wasn't even bad) that happened 3 years before he held the position.

 

[All Mod Cons]

According to who? The Kessel deal was clearly an organizational move.

Only in here is the GM blamed for something (that wasn't even bad) that happened 3 years before he held the position.

So who was point in the Kessel trade? Did the Penguins contact the Leafs switchboard and left a message?

I thought it was widely believed that Dubas handled the deal?

 

[Dekes For Days]

I suppose I should have said the team with the fewest goals allowed last season was not good defensively rather than bad defensively.

I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand that goaltending has a significant impact on goals against.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So who was point in the Kessel trade? Did the Penguins contact the Leafs switchboard and left a message?

Does it really matter who answered the phones? This is a deal that is made over weeks or months, not a phone call. With no formal GM, and it being the trade of their recently signed star player, this would have been a move discussed and made by the whole management team. If anybody had final say, it was Shanahan.

I thought it was widely believed that Dubas handled the deal?

I've never heard that before. Not sure where you got that from.

 

[4thline]

let him play the year and stay away from the Barrie deal. Trade AJ. done.

Nope. I already gave you a move by move breakdown of your "master plan". It's not only far from cap compliant but also leaves us much worse off

 

[egd27]

I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to understand that goaltending has a significant impact on goals against.

Don't recall ever suggesting that.

I believe goaltending statistics are are part of team statistics and are often a result of overall team play.

I'm quite sure you will have yet another reason why I am incorrect, but it is my opinion that good goaltending without a strong defensive structure does not result in allowing the fewest goals over an entire NHL season.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I believe goaltending statistics are are part of team statistics and are often a result of overall team play.

This is essentially saying that all goaltenders are identical, and play at the exact same consistency and ability at all times. We know this is not true.

Yes, defensive metrics of the team in front impact goaltending, but those don't vary between teams by nearly as much as people think. The play of the goaltender has a much bigger impact on the resulting GA, and having two quality goaltenders is a significant advantage in league GA ranking. We have the information to know how much the goalie and team in front each played into the resulting GA stats, but for some reason, you're choosing to ignore it.

The Islanders weren't horrible defensively last year. They also weren't near the best, and have gotten worse this year. This all started with a statement that the Islanders goalies have so much more help in front this year, absolving Andersen of blame. This is not true. In reality, Leafs and Islanders aren't all that different in defensive results this year.

It's weird how adamantly some deny the impact of goaltending, while at the same time claiming that Andersen has carried league worst defense for years, and demanding a trade for a backup, as if our entire future depended on it.

 

[Bomber0104]

This is essentially saying that all goaltenders are identical, and play at the exact same consistency and ability at all times. We know this is not true.

Yes, defensive metrics of the team in front impact goaltending, but those don't vary between teams by nearly as much as people think. The play of the goaltender has a much bigger impact on the resulting GA. We have the information to know how much the goalie and team in front each played into the resulting GA stats, but for some reason, you're choosing to ignore it.

The Islanders weren't horrible defensively last year. They also weren't near the best, and have gotten worse this year. This all started with a statement that the Islanders goalies have so much more help in front this year, absolving Andersen of blame. This is not true. In reality, Leafs and Islanders aren't all that different in defensive results this year.

It's weird how adamantly some deny the impact of goaltending, while at the same time claiming that Andersen has carried league worst defense for years, and demanding a trade for a backup.

This is BS and you know it.

None of the garbage blog stats you copy and paste here come anywhere close to isolating a goaltender and team's impact on goals against.

The only reason you're pushing this as hard as you is so you can dumb down the entire sport and pin all success (like the Islanders) and failure (like the Leafs) on one player (the goalie) as opposed to the team.

I also like how you say "we" like you personally represent the cutting edge of hockey stats. It's kind of hilarious

 

[ACC1224]

So who was point in the Kessel trade? Did the Penguins contact the Leafs switchboard and left a message?

I thought it was widely believed that Dubas handled the deal?

It was but I doubt the Leafs would ever admit it.
Lou was brought in not long after which kind of confirmed that speculation.

 

[Mess]

This thread is over its limit and I think everyone has had their fair say on this subject.

Dubas is currently in no jeopardy as this is a long term plan in play by Shanny.

I'm closing this thread and we can revisit this in the future if need be, but lets all hope the Leafs make the playoffs.

/Closed