If the Isles could do it, so can we?...

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Purge the front office then we'll talk.

Bobby, MacT, Lowe, Howson, all of them gone.

 

[MaxR11]

The question posed in this thread is exactly what I asked myself in watching that game yesterday.

The simple answer that has been offered on this forum literally thousands of times is that when ownership goes out and hires the right people everything changes. Your biggest star flies the coop in the off-season? No problem. You bring in the right management/coaching team, make the right adjustments, get more out of what you already have and the sky is the limit.

Profoundly simple but Katz doesn't get it.

He went out and hired Nicholson because Bobby Burgers was a good friend of Katz's idol Wayne Gretzky. Bobby then turns around and hires his buddy Chia despite the warnings that a lot of people in Boston offered. Stay clear they warn but Bobby says no, this guy is pals with Wayne and me.

You didn't have to be Nostradomus to see what was going to happen.

this is the angst right now.... i'm not sure i can trust the organization to "right the ship" fully with katz in charge wanting to keep his obc buds around. even if bobby nicks was somehow capable, he might not be given full autonomy to make the right acquisitions and purges required.

this whole thing is FUBAR... it's an ugly inbred mess we have in ownership and the front office. even if bnicks hires someone unsuspected and seemingly promising i'd still be skeptical if the obc is around... highly suspicious that they'll continually meddle in the new GMs affairs. handcuffing him. confusing him.

 

[MaxR11]

Ok lets do it

Step 1: Lets find the absolutely dumbest franchise in the NHL/ of all time
Step 2: Put that team on speed dial and rip them off on 2 trades.
Step 3: Profit

Oh wait, WE are the dumbest franchise in the NHL? Ok nvm, thats why it wont work

regardless of barzal the isles have immensely improved their culture on and off the ice and in the organization that they'd still be a playoff team or at least have a solid cultural foundation to quickly build off of and be successful. don't for a second think their turn around wasn't bascially 99% on trotz and lamo. they had the same lineup WITH a superstar in tavares and were a significantly worse team.

 

[joestevens29]

regardless of barzal the isles have immensely improved their culture on and off the ice and in the organization that they'd still be a playoff team or at least have a solid cultural foundation to quickly build off of and be successful. don't for a second think their turn around wasn't bascially 99% on trotz and lamo. they had the same lineup WITH a superstar in tavares and were a significantly worse team.

I remembering Boychuk coming out last summer pretty much calling out everyone that wasn't a part of the organization. Lot of people were down on the club and Johnny made it known that the guys that were left have a big chip on their shoulder.

Trotz helped the most, but have that kind of vocal leadership to challenge guys helps a lot.

 

[MaxR11]

honestly goaltending is not the key problem here..... you can bring in carey price, Marc andre fleury etc etc they would very much likely play down to the level of all the goalies that have come through here. it's less the goalies and more of the team buy in in front of them.

MAF has looked solid because the team in front of him buys in and plays proper hockey. Same with Lenher. preds and wild goalies are always/usually good. it boils down to team play/buy in/ the the cultural expectations etc. some teams will always have solid goals against and goalies because of how they play in front of them. it's not rocket science.

 

[MaxR11]

I remembering Boychuk coming out last summer pretty much calling out everyone that wasn't a part of the organization. Lot of people were down on the club and Johnny made it known that the guys that were left have a big chip on their shoulder.

Trotz helped the most, but have that kind of vocal leadership to challenge guys helps a lot.

absolutely leadership helps immensely... helps set the room culture and expectations and make sure people stay on track.

this is why i say you need the foundation of solid culture and leadership. you can have all the talent you want but if they're all pulling in different directions it'll be just as much a gong show as it is now. leadership and culture must be in place in the room, in the coaching staff and in the front office/management.

 

[Aceboogie]

regardless of barzal the isles have immensely improved their culture on and off the ice and in the organization that they'd still be a playoff team or at least have a solid cultural foundation to quickly build off of and be successful. don't for a second think their turn around wasn't bascially 99% on trotz and lamo. they had the same lineup WITH a superstar in tavares and were a significantly worse team.

I remembering Boychuk coming out last summer pretty much calling out everyone that wasn't a part of the organization. Lot of people were down on the club and Johnny made it known that the guys that were left have a big chip on their shoulder.

Trotz helped the most, but have that kind of vocal leadership to challenge guys helps a lot.

The Oilers went out and backed the Bricks trucks up for Lucic and made numerous "character" acqusitions in 2015 and 2016 (not to mention making numerous other in years before, Ference for a quick example). If the Oilers think they can replicate the Isles with character, I have some very bad news for you. It aint character

I have some good news/bad news for people though. If people are jealous of the Isles, you wont be next season. The Isles led the league in PDO this year and had very shotty underlying numbers. Where have we since this song and dance before? Calgary in 2014, Toronto in 2012 and Colorado before them.

So the really answer to the question "If the Isles could do it, why not us?", well, we just need to lead the league in luck and have an outlier season. We already had this in 2016/17. So dont fret people jealous of the Isles, next season they too will be in the draft lottery

 

[TheRebuild]

I was thinking, even if they didn't want to purge the front office, I'd be ok if they diverted all decision making to a Magic 8 Ball, over them trying to make decisions on their own. At least randomly made decisions are occasionally correct. Might be enough to get us back in the playoffs.

Will Lucic return to form next season and go back to scoring 50 points?

 

[McFlash97]

The Islanders are run by Lou Lam and Trotz


We are run by the Moe and Larry Clown show.

 

[MaxR11]

The Oilers went out and backed the Bricks trucks up for Lucic and made numerous "character" acqusitions in 2015 and 2016 (not to mention making numerous other in years before, Ference for a quick example). If the Oilers think they can replicate the Isles with character, I have some very bad news for you. It aint character

I have some good news/bad news for people though. If people are jealous of the Isles, you wont be next season. The Isles led the league in PDO this year and had very shotty underlying numbers. Where have we since this song and dance before? Calgary in 2014, Toronto in 2012 and Colorado before them.

So the really answer to the question "If the Isles could do it, why not us?", well, we just need to lead the league in luck and have an outlier season. We already had this in 2016/17. So dont fret people jealous of the Isles, next season they too will be in the draft lottery

Just because the oil chose the wrong "character" type of players to come it doesn't mean it's a bad thing to keep looking for those players. we obviously need more talent AND character/leadership. isn't it the same as the oilers THOUGHT they were drafting or bringing in "talent" but chose poorly? same thing with ference and looch as far as the fit with this group perhaps.

obviously it aint ALL character... some on talent too but to deny or be blind to how weak the perseverance and consistency in effort/ character/leadership this team has shown in the last two years is foolish.

with trotz, lamo... it's not luck. with NJ devs it was obviously luck... i knew that to be true last year. with vegas... just the way they play... it's also not as "lucky" as many on this board said they were. as i recall you were one of the people saying exactly the same thing about vegas last year being lucky......

i didn't watch as many isles games as i did vegas but yes, i do think isles have a greater chance of droppin back to the pack next year a bit more than last year's vegas team. but having trotz and lamo in place gives me more confidence that the slippage won't be as great and that thy will continue to build to greater things. i trust a bit more in the culture the'll set.

 

[Spawn]

Just need to bring in more high character guys like Jordan Eberle. Right OP?

 

[Soundwave]

Just need to bring in more high character guys like Jordan Eberle. Right OP?

Yeah if only the Oilers had high character players like

Leading the Islanders in the playoffs.

Wins Hart Trophy as NHL's MVP, leads the Devils into the playoffs.

Top 4 D-Man on a two time Stanley Cup winner (top pairing for most recent Cup).

Maybe the "culture" that needs to change is the Oilers culture from management + impatient parts of the fanbase that jump all over talented players and blame them for poorly built rosters and then give up on said players.

Maybe it's the "scapegoat" culture here that is what really needs to change. The same group of people were trying to do the same to Draisaitl until he shut them up by scoring 50 damn goals and 100+ points.

 

[MaxR11]

Yeah if only the Oilers had high character players like

Leading the Islanders in the playoffs.

Wins Hart Trophy as NHL's MVP, leads the Devils into the playoffs.

Top 4 D-Man on a two time Stanley Cup winner (top pairing for most recent Cup).

Maybe the "culture" that needs to change is the Oilers culture from management + impatient parts of the fanbase that jump all over talented players and blame them for poorly built rosters and then give up on said players.

Maybe it's the "scapegoat" culture here that is what really needs to change. The same group of people were trying to do the same to Draisaitl until he shut them up by scoring 50 damn goals and 100+ points.

wow, what a hyperbole of a post. ebs was a bit player in the reg season... sure he happens to be potting some goals now but you make it sound like it's all him. no.... it's a lot to do with trotz and his system/culture.

hall... fluked out one year. awesome. back to his norm this year of either being injured and useless or an overrrated player.

schultz.... surrounded by quality veteran players who make him look better than he is.

those players had their chance here and failed. i'm honestly not even sure any of them, if we had a magic wand and brought them back, would push the needle forward much anyhow... especially true for ebs and schultz.

well ya... definitely the culture needs to change.... the obc probably needs to go... or at least there needs to be serous and real org cultural change in place and have it trickle down to the players.

 

[Soundwave]

wow, what a hyperbole of a post. ebs was a bit player in the reg season... sure he happens to be potting some goals now but you make it sound like it's all him. no.... it's a lot to do with trotz and his system/culture.

hall... fluked out one year. awesome. back to his norm this year of either being injured and useless or an overrrated player.

schultz.... surrounded by quality veteran players who make him look better than he is.

those players had their chance here and failed. i'm honestly not even sure any of them, if we had a magic wand and brought them back, would push the needle forward much anyhow... especially true for ebs and schultz.

well ya... definitely the culture needs to change.... the obc probably needs to go... or at least there needs to be serous and real org cultural change in place and have it trickle down to the players.

They didn't have a fair chance here, you guys were busy blaming them for everything when it was clear they weren't given a good roster to work with.

Your kind of culture of piling on blame is IMO a large part of the problem.

These were good players that we could use now, and so what if they couldn't make it work with guys like Mark Fayne, washed up Andrew Ference, Nikita Nikitin, Mark Arcobello, Teddy Purcell, Ben Scrivens, etc. etc.

"Scapegoat culture" is a large part of the problem here. Piling on players and blowing every little thing they do out of proportion and having no concept of a big picture, small town mentality "gossiping" and spreading of rumors when a player is underperforming, quick to jump all over a player, etc. etc. is a problem.

If Leon Draisaitl did not put up monster numbers this year he would be hearing about it right now.

 

[MaxR11]

They didn't have a fair chance here, you guys were busy blaming them for everything when it was clear they weren't given a good roster to work with.

Your kind of culture of piling on blame is IMO a large part of the problem.

These were good players that we could use now, and so what if they couldn't make it work with guys like Mark Fayne, washed up Andrew Ference, Nikita Nikitin, Mark Arcobello, Teddy Purcell, Ben Scrivens, etc. etc.

"Scapegoat culture" is a large part of the problem here. Piling on players and blowing every little thing they do out of proportion and having no concept of a big picture, small town mentality "gossiping" and spreading of rumors when a player is underperforming, quick to jump all over a player, etc. etc. is a problem.

If Leon Draisaitl did not put up monster numbers this year he would be hearing about it right now.

really?... you haven't caught on that i've been saying the culture of the management is a huge problem? ok then....

 

[Kinibo]

So that the Oilers players here see only either anger, frustration or indifference from the corporate types and from the segment of fans. The Oilers also see disposable fans. different people in different seats almost every night. Contrast this to even Calgary or Winnipeg where STH actually go to most of the games.

I'll take this comment one step further. Look at the list of players who have been jettisoned from Edmonton, often at the insistence of the fanbase, only to find success elsewhere. I wouldn't pretend to know what it's like to play in other markets, but I've often said that Oiler fans don't get mad, they get personal. If you make a mistake, you're an idiot. If you have a bad game, you're lazy. If you have a bad season, you're a POS. And I don't care who you are or how much you make, people are people and that has to get to you over time. Whatever the "water" is here, there's something in it alright. And that something is not just ownership, it's the fans as well.

I get the frustration at losing season after losing season. But just look at these boards and read some of the garbage that posters direct to players on a personal level, and tell me you'd want to play here or in any Canadian market.

 

[Soundwave]

really?... you haven't caught on that i've been saying the culture of the management is a huge problem? ok then....

Picking on and scapegoating, incessantly spreading rumors and negativity around specific players when the real reason the team is bad is simply because its built poorly IS part of the culture here.

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

Really excited to see Koskinen give us .930 goaltending next year if that's the case

 

[FlameChampion]

I think as fans on judge GMS alot on their trades, free agents, drafts etc but I think when you look at an organization like the Islanders, its seems pretty clear than Lamourello set a new "culture", accountability, and stabilized the franchise. He just doesnt put up with incompetence. He then hired someone who is a great coach.

Thats pretty much what this team needs. Accountability from the top down. We can make all the trades and draft picks we want, but things likely wont improve until someone stabilizes the franchise. I personally think there needs to be a purge done. But unfortunately I dont trust Katz and Nicholson to get it done (or hire the person to get it done). I hope I am wrong but I wont hold my breath.

 

[Soundwave]

I think as fans on judge GMS alot on their trades, free agents, drafts etc but I think when you look at an organization like the Islanders, its seems pretty clear than Lamourello set a new "culture", accountability, and stabilized the franchise. He just doesnt put up with incompetence. He then hired someone who is a great coach.

Thats pretty much what this team needs. Accountability from the top down. We can make all the trades and draft picks we want, but things likely wont improve until someone stabilizes the franchise. I personally think there needs to be a purge done. But unfortunately I dont trust Katz and Nicholson to get it done (or hire the person to get it done). I hope I am wrong but I wont hold my breath.

Using the Islanders as a blue print is likely foolish, they are having a good year but every year there is a team like them that falls back down to earth the year after. Maybe they will buck that trend if they acquire big name players like Panarin in the summer though.

Vegas does not fall into this category. They added an entire damn 1st line (Patches-Statsny-Stone) to the team in 9 months and have 3 recent All-Star players with impressive depth around those guys. They are not some shoe-string budget Cinderella team that's gritting out wins on "culture", they are one of the deepest teams in the league.

 

[FlameChampion]

Using the Islanders as a blue print is likely foolish, they are having a good year but every year there is a team like them that falls back down to earth the year after. Maybe they will buck that trend if they acquire big name players like Panarin in the summer though.

Vegas does not fall into this category. They added an entire damn 1st line (Patches-Statsny-Stone) to the team in 9 months and have 3 recent All-Star players with impressive depth around those guys. They are not some shoe-string budget Cinderella team that's gritting out wins on "culture", they are one of the deepest teams in the league.

I wouldnt say my post was indicating that we need to follow the Islanders blue print. The point of my post was that there needs to be accountability in the organization from top down. Its pretty obvious at this point, that the management is incompetent. Vegas has been successful because their management is competent and they have a good coach. They were a good team before they added that first line, having a competent management, only improved their situation.

 

[MaxR11]

I think as fans on judge GMS alot on their trades, free agents, drafts etc but I think when you look at an organization like the Islanders, its seems pretty clear than Lamourello set a new "culture", accountability, and stabilized the franchise. He just doesnt put up with incompetence. He then hired someone who is a great coach.

Thats pretty much what this team needs. Accountability from the top down. We can make all the trades and draft picks we want, but things likely wont improve until someone stabilizes the franchise. I personally think there needs to be a purge done. But unfortunately I dont trust Katz and Nicholson to get it done (or hire the person to get it done). I hope I am wrong but I wont hold my breath.

150% true. we can gather up all the talent we want but it's exactly what you said... if there isn't that accountability and GM that will stabilize the franchise and right the culture not much will change. we will continue to underachieve and frustration will continue to boil over even if we somehow magically obtained panarin, tarasenko, parayko etc etc. the rot is MUCH deeper than just talent. talent needs to be fixed but the culture needs to be righted and stabilized. accountability and stability from top down. nice post!

 

[MaxR11]

Picking on and scapegoating, incessantly spreading rumors and negativity around specific players when the real reason the team is bad is simply because its built poorly IS part of the culture here.

i don't disagree with part of it when yo say scapegoating players. the org does it, we fans do it. ya it adds to the rot culture around the team.

but the team is not bad JUST because it's poorly built... it's definitely part of it but when you delve deeper into why it's poorly built it's because of the culture of this organization and it's owner and management team. it's entitled. it's inbred and an "old boys club". a country club hobby for old champions who have lost their winning ways and determination. that's the culture we have here. and that rot trickles down right to the room. lack of accountability and drive and focus. that's the culture we have here. the team is not built well and the players also don't buy well. it's a combination of a variety of things. it's too narrow minded to say it's solely on a "poor" roster.

 

[MaxR11]

They didn't have a fair chance here, you guys were busy blaming them for everything when it was clear they weren't given a good roster to work with.

Your kind of culture of piling on blame is IMO a large part of the problem.

These were good players that we could use now, and so what if they couldn't make it work with guys like Mark Fayne, washed up Andrew Ference, Nikita Nikitin, Mark Arcobello, Teddy Purcell, Ben Scrivens, etc. etc.

"Scapegoat culture" is a large part of the problem here. Piling on players and blowing every little thing they do out of proportion and having no concept of a big picture, small town mentality "gossiping" and spreading of rumors when a player is underperforming, quick to jump all over a player, etc. etc. is a problem.

If Leon Draisaitl did not put up monster numbers this year he would be hearing about it right now.

just to add to my response... guys like you also pile on looch, ference etc. sure they didn't play well but as you said that causes a real negative culture surrounding the team. if anything it sure as s*** doesn't help them improve... it makes them worse because of that added stress, negativity and pressure from the outside. can you then say we are all to blame for looch not being able to right his game? you'll likely say those players deserve the piling on but i also think from what i saw from hall, ebs schultz etc they deserved some piling on. are we wrong in doing that... maybe... it doesn't help them that's for sure. but i guess that's where competent management takes over and gets those players turned around or shipped out asap. we don't have that and our frustrations boil over and we pile on. not good.

also leon was NOT good for at least half the season.... he was a beast later on in the season tho.

 

[BudBundy]

regardless of barzal the isles have immensely improved their culture on and off the ice and in the organization that they'd still be a playoff team or at least have a solid cultural foundation to quickly build off of and be successful. don't for a second think their turn around wasn't bascially 99% on trotz and lamo. they had the same lineup WITH a superstar in tavares and were a significantly worse team.

Culture is for yoghurt. The Isles had a talented but young roster that is finally coming of age, plus with a goalie having a stellar year. The Isles are roughly where the Oilers would be if we hadnt chased Hall out and added Lucic in the name of “culture.”