If the Isles could do it, so can we?...

[MaxR11]

If the Islanders can change and turn around the team's fortune and culture with two key off season hires (Lou Lammy and trotzky) maybe we can too if Bobby Nicks and Katz makes the right choices and purges?

Let's face it, the Isles are a fairly mediocre team with not much high end talent at all and their questionable goaltending has looked outstanding due to the buy in and team culture of the players (d and fwds) in front of them.

Is it maybe possible for a very good new GM and proper coach to come in and make small and very realistic roster changes and more importantly change and fix the organizational and team room culture and buy in that we can be next year's Isles/Golden Knights and build on that going fwd with the best player on the planet?

Trying to overhaul the roster would be tough to do in a year or two.... i think start with a massive culture change, make the playoffs and work towards improving the roster in the years to come. Have that solid cultural foundation as you bring in the new talent and oust the players past their expiration date.

Obviously a key summer for this org. Katz and bnicks better get it right.

Click to read more...

 

[Beerfish]

"Bobby Nicks and Katz makes the right choices and purges? "

And it all falls apart early on.

Hey it is possible. When you have two of the best players in the league you have a shot but the men in charge of the men in charge have no guts to do what is right.

We will hire a new GM who has total 'autonomy'....ha ha ha
We will hire a new coach and we will have the same remainder of the org stocked by the worst people in hockey.

We talk a lot about needing scoring wingers and Dmen. I still think the easiest quick fix is getting a good goalie, not he schlock we have had to put up with the last few years. The team was no great shakes two years ago but Talbot played well all year.

 

[McDrai]

If it weren't for our generosity in gifting them essentially Barzal, Eberle, and Beauvillier they would be nowhere near where they are now.

 

[frag2]

Not another culture thread again...oh look it's the same OP

-Roster sucks
-Gm and Coaches have no f***ing clue (ie. Stapling Lucic with McDavid for weeks)

Even if you got buy in to whatever system, we just don't have the horses to score. Realistically, only 2 players...4 if you include Nuge and Nurse but the latter 2, a huge chunk IIRC came from when mcdrai on the ice as well

 

[MikeGrier99]

I think the culture point is just that if you have an ultra competitive front office environment, it is likely to show on the ice. Everyone in the org is on board to commit to their full potential. The Oilers have been a sad sight that has slipped out of a serious playoff race by the new year almost every year of the last decade plus. The culture thing isn't necessarily just about attitude or character or whatever abstract concepts, it's about having ultra competitive and competent people in place.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I very seldom take this approach to suggest that a hotbed market can deter some players but theres absolutely no escaping its easier for Eberle to play in a sleepy US market than it is in a Canadian hotbed market. Not every player is built like that, but increasingly, many are and struggle with the intensity of the Canadian markets and like playing in the US and get results there. Even look at guys like Stone and Pacioretty, absolutely loving it in Vegas, they paid their dues, they got screamed at, abused, shit on, now they hear this unfamiliar sound of unrequited cheers and enthusiasm. They both can't stop smiling.

I very seldom acknowledge this but its part of the story. Look at Strome doing well with the Rangers who have dropped right out of site even while being in the biggest market. Nobody really expects anything from the rebuild Rangers in these times so Strome has a complete no pressure situation there.

Lastly Rogers place was a huge mistake. I say this often, but its designed as a corporate mausoleum. jebus have these monstrosities in Toronto, Montreal, big cities but not here. Having a blue blood arena in a working class city is just such a miss. So that the Oilers players here see only either anger, frustration or indifference from the corporate types and from the segment of fans. The Oilers also see disposable fans. different people in different seats almost every night. Contrast this to even Calgary or Winnipeg where STH actually go to most of the games. I can virtually recognize lots of people in Calgary games near the ice. Its because they go to the games, all of them, and are there. starting from the first rows there is a fan to player recognition. Here in Edmonton its giveaway night or sell off night almost every game. So completely detached part time crowds that are not much more devoted then people watching on TV.

The Oilers are a team with part time fans, indifferent business fans, and boobird fans depending on the night. How many times can Connor or Leon look up into the standa and recognize faces? In the 80's that was there every game. Whole sections of the same fans watching and being there every game and connecting to team and vice versa.

Theres basically one fan at Rogers I even recognize from seeing often and regularly. The old grey long hair guy. We should hire Trivago guy, he ain't doing anything.

 

[McShogun99]

The other big reason is they’ve gotten excellent goaltending this year. No one wanted Lehner and he had a near Vezina worthy season.

 

[Nostradumbass]

If it weren't for our generosity in gifting them essentially Barzal, Eberle, and Beauvillier they would be nowhere near where they are now.

Nothing like trading Barzal, Eberle, and Beauvillier for Sam Gagner.

 

[Stoneman89]

And if Poland can change to a democratic society, why can't North Korea?

And if birds can fly, why can't pigs?

If it were that easy, there would be over 30 contenders in the league.

 

[soothsayer]

Edit

 

[Satire]

If the Islanders can hire a competent GM and coach why cant we?

3 words: old boys club

 

[Soundwave]

The Islanders could just as easily miss next year. Every year there is a Cinderella team or two that falls apart the following year. Last year one of the team's was New Jersey. But if you want to go that route, ok ...

So all we need is a Taylor Hall or Jordan Eberle.

... Oh wait ...

 

[MaxR11]

The Islanders could just as easily miss next year. Every year there is a Cinderella team or two that falls apart the following year. Last year one of the team's was New Jersey. But if you want to go that route, ok ...

So all we need is a Taylor Hall or Jordan Eberle.

... Oh wait ...

just like how you and some were saying vegas was a cinderella team that would fall apart right... so wrong. i knew nj was going to fall apart, that wasn't in question. in fact i remember you and few others touting nj as now a contender and that hall would lead them to glory. lol how's that worked out?

isles should be ok with trotz and lamo in charge of the culture.

 

[guymez]

The Isles didnt have to overcome the level incompetence this team has in place.

 

[MaxR11]

"Bobby Nicks and Katz makes the right choices and purges? "

And it all falls apart early on.

Hey it is possible. When you have two of the best players in the league you have a shot but the men in charge of the men in charge have no guts to do what is right.

We will hire a new GM who has total 'autonomy'....ha ha ha
We will hire a new coach and we will have the same remainder of the org stocked by the worst people in hockey.

We talk a lot about needing scoring wingers and Dmen. I still think the easiest quick fix is getting a good goalie, not he schlock we have had to put up with the last few years. The team was no great shakes two years ago but Talbot played well all year.

we do need a roster upgrade but i do think the quicker fix and to build a good foundation is to change and fix the culture and buy in. the goalies play to their potential and are more confident and relaxed when the team in front of him are buying in and doing what they're supposed to and in the right spots (discipline... buy in).

 

[MaxR11]

I think the culture point is just that if you have an ultra competitive front office environment, it is likely to show on the ice. Everyone in the org is on board to commit to their full potential. The Oilers have been a sad sight that has slipped out of a serious playoff race by the new year almost every year of the last decade plus. The culture thing isn't necessarily just about attitude or character or whatever abstract concepts, it's about having ultra competitive and competent people in place.

agree, it's not just attitudes. it's also a lot to do with the way things are done and handled by management/owner etc. those things can set the standards for everyone... all the way down to the players.

if the front office and ownership and their dealings are a gong show it absolutely sets cultural attitudes and standards of the entire organization.

 

[MaxR11]

If the Islanders can hire a competent GM and coach why cant we?

3 words: old boys club

yup.... that's why a lot of this is also on katz... not just bobby knicks this summer....

 

[belair]

just like how you and some were saying vegas was a cinderella team that would fall apart right... so wrong. i knew nj was going to fall apart, that wasn't in question. in fact i remember you and few others touting nj as now a contender and that hall would lead them to glory. lol how's that worked out?

isles should be ok with trotz and lamo in charge of the culture.

The Isles won the Jennings trophy this year. There's a guarantee of some regression, not unlike what we experienced following the 16-17 campaign. The only fortunate part for the Isles it's that they don't have the second contracts of two of the most productive forwards in the league to worry about.

Teams watch the game film. They get wise to strategies. Their GAs will level out.

 

[MaxR11]

The Isles won the Jennings trophy this year. There's a guarantee of some regression, not unlike what we experienced following the 16-17 campaign. The only fortunate part for the Isles it's that they don't have the second contracts of two of the most productive forwards in the league to worry about.

Teams watch the game film. They get wise to strategies. Their GAs will level out.

sure, but like i said, a lot of what makes good goaltending is the team buy in in front of him. it makes a massive difference as to how relaxes and confident he can be in his crease. when the team defence buy in wanes that's when the goalie starts to second guess what he should be doing in his crease and that's when it can spiral out of control and yes his game will slip.

i remember in 16-17 we played much better and consistent defence in front of talbs. that made him super confident. then the team got away from those good habits slowly but surely and talbs basically didn't know what was going to happen in front of him and that shatters a goalie's confidence. i remember last year (17-18)he was getting super pissed at guys like klef and nurse for bungling coverage etc... basically staring them down and saying something to them right after a backdoor tap in goal.... over and over. then as you lose trust in your team D in front of you your game starts going into the crapper as well.

 

[guymez]

sure, but like i said, a lot of what makes good goaltending is the team buy in in front of him. it makes a massive difference as to how relaxes and confident he can be in his crease. when the team defence buy in wanes that's when the goalie starts to second guess what he should be doing in his crease and that's when it can spiral out of control and yes his game will slip.

i remember in 16-17 we played much better and consistent defence in front of talbs. that made him super confident. then the team got away from those good habits slowly but surely and talbs basically didn't know what was going to happen in front of him and that shatters a goalie's confidence. i remember last year (17-18)he was getting super pissed at guys like klef and nurse for bungling coverage etc... basically staring them down and saying something to them right after a backdoor tap in goal.... over and over. then as you lose trust in your team D in front of you your game starts going into the crapper as well.

I think that there is a lot of truth to this...a solid defence makes a big difference in goaltender confidence and team confidence overall. The game becomes more predictable and easier to manage from the net out.
Talbot was beaten down by the time he was traded...he had no confidence after well over 150 games in the net facing crazy amounts of high danger shots.

To bring this into focus regarding the concerns around Koskinen...IMO its that he brought bad habits with him. Playing small in the net....losing his net on angles....having difficulty with glove hand shots are not a product of what was going on in front of him. He was experiencing those issues from day 1.
The good news is that these things are correctable and I expect Koskinen to be better next season.
That said the team absolutely has to do 2 things...bring in strong tandem goalie and to develop a system that makes it a priority to move the puck north (as quickly as possible) while maintaining possession.

 

[OilerTitanFan]

Difference with the Islanders is that Eberle is actually playing like a top line RW in the playoffs. He's engaged and playing with confidence. You can see it in his shot, especially his back hand goal from game 2. What would the Oilers be doing now had they kept the picks, picked Barzal/Chabot, and any chump with that second pick. Problem was that the fans and management were all impatient looking for quick fix. The next stupid move is to trade our #8 pick.

 

[Soundwave]

just like how you and some were saying vegas was a cinderella team that would fall apart right... so wrong. i knew nj was going to fall apart, that wasn't in question. in fact i remember you and few others touting nj as now a contender and that hall would lead them to glory. lol how's that worked out?

isles should be ok with trotz and lamo in charge of the culture.

No, Vegas did not rest on their laurels and act like morons trumpeting "character" of the group or sit around waiting for Cinderella's glass slipper again.

They went out after last season and added two All-Star quality players in Pacioretty and Stone and another solid veteran center in Statsny who scored at a 68 point clip overall. They had some injuries that hindered them early, but as the season went on they got healthy, predictably they were good.

That prevented them from collapsing and putting pressure on players like Karlsson to repeat the unbelievable 40 goal season he had last year (he came no where close to that predictably).

That's not sitting on your laurels and patting yourself on the back. That's adding three high impact players, thus upgrading the talent level of the roster overall.

They are a very deep team upfront now that Stone is there and Pacioretty is healthy. Vegas is not a Cinderella team, they have 3 All-Star tier players on their roster (Stone, Patches, MAF) and a whopping 5 other 50+ point players upfront (Statsny, Marchessault, Tuch, Karlsson, Smith).

Then they have three d-men who score at a 30+ ppg clip.

The Oilers have not had that kind of fire power since 1990.

 

[CREW99AW]

The Isles won the Jennings trophy this year. There's a guarantee of some regression, not unlike what we experienced following the 16-17 campaign. The only fortunate part for the Isles it's that they don't have the second contracts of two of the most productive forwards in the league to worry about.

Teams watch the game film. They get wise to strategies. Their GAs will level out.

Not only do the isles have some good,young blueliners in Pulock/Toews/ Pelech/Mayfield, but they have quality pieces on the way in Dobson/Wilde/Aho.

Press says Lehner is hoping to stay and Lou refused to move Sorokin to land Hoffman.

Isles pp sucks and it would certainly help if Lou could use his considerable cap space to land one of Panarin/Skinner/Duchene in July.


Ownership gave Lou 100% control and ate the Snow/Weight contracts.

 

[MoontoScott]

The question posed in this thread is exactly what I asked myself in watching that game yesterday.

The simple answer that has been offered on this forum literally thousands of times is that when ownership goes out and hires the right people everything changes. Your biggest star flies the coop in the off-season? No problem. You bring in the right management/coaching team, make the right adjustments, get more out of what you already have and the sky is the limit.

Profoundly simple but Katz doesn't get it.

He went out and hired Nicholson because Bobby Burgers was a good friend of Katz's idol Wayne Gretzky. Bobby then turns around and hires his buddy Chia despite the warnings that a lot of people in Boston offered. Stay clear they warn but Bobby says no, this guy is pals with Wayne and me.

You didn't have to be Nostradomus to see what was going to happen.

 

[Aceboogie]

Ok lets do it

Step 1: Lets find the absolutely dumbest franchise in the NHL/ of all time
Step 2: Put that team on speed dial and rip them off on 2 trades.
Step 3: Profit

Oh wait, WE are the dumbest franchise in the NHL? Ok nvm, thats why it wont work