If the 2003 draft were held again...

Status
Not open for further replies.

Winston Wolf

Registered User
May 15, 2003
12,089
6,690
Philadelphia
#37-#93-#27 said:
One things for sure, he's done nothing to hurt himself so I too am puzzled why he'd drop down more then half the selections specially when you consider the likely reasons he was drafted was his size and the fact his determination is strong (by the Rangers that is), I'm sure he'd still be atop their draft list once it's time for their selection.
Regarding Jessiman, he's honestly not dropping too much on most peoples' lists. Before the Rangers picked Jessiman at 12 most people had Jessiman going around the early 20s, so he really hasn't dropped too much.

It's just that the Rangers were higher on him than most of the posters here were, (same with the Flyers and Carter, most people saw him going in the late teens) so his ranking really is about the same on most of the posters' lists.
 
Jul 29, 2003
31,639
5,336
Saskatoon
Visit site
Kryoptix said:
1- Marc-Andre Fleury
2- Eric Staal
3- Nathan Horton
4- Nikolai Zherdev
5- Milan Michalek
6- Dion Phaneuf
7- Ryan Suter
8- Thomas Vanek
9- Jeff Carter
10- Andrei Kostitsyn
11- Zach Parise
12- Braydon Coburn
13- Dustin Brown
14- Patrice Bergeron
15- Anthony Stewart
16- Hugh Jessiman
17- Brent Seabrooke
18- Brent Burns
19- Steve Bernier
20- Ryan Kesler
21- Mike Richards
22- Shawn Belle
23- Mark Stuart
24- Robert Nilsson
25- Ryan Getzlaf
26- Eric Fehr
27- Jeff Tambellini
28- Marc-Antoine Pouliot
29- Patrick Eaves
30- Patrick O'Sullivan

...
the first 15 picks were easy to make .. but after it's a lot tougher ..
in trying to not be biased toward canadians..
anyway this is my opinion .. ;)

Care to elaborate why Getzlaf drops 6 picks? He had a good WJC, has done well in the Dub, and the only thing stopping him from making the Ducks this year was the CBA. He'd go top 15 if the draft was done over again, most likely.

Also, why is Jessiman at #16?
 

Rabid Ranger

2 is better than one
Feb 27, 2002
31,015
11,021
Murica
Vlad The Impaler said:
How is that a significant factor?

I can see how that makes him more valuable for the Rangers. Hometown talent is nice and all. But how does that fact make him a significantly better prospect?


That wasn't my point. The assertion was Jessiman should have dropped in the draft. I asked why, and the answer was "he's a project". In response, I cited not only Jessiman's immense talent and upside, but also the fact that he is NYC born as factors why he wouldn't have dropped past the 10th overall pick, which the Rangers held. I was dealing with one specific example, not making a broad reaching statement.
 

Jeffrey

Registered User
Feb 2, 2003
12,436
3
Montreal
Visit site
ducksflytogether said:
Care to elaborate why Getzlaf drops 6 picks? He had a good WJC, has done well in the Dub, and the only thing stopping him from making the Ducks this year was the CBA. He'd go top 15 if the draft was done over again, most likely.

Also, why is Jessiman at #16?
Getzlaf was IMO the worst player on the Burns-Carter-Getzlaf line ...
he didn't show any creativity with the puck and didn't use his size like he could .. not a top skater too ... he was OK at the WJC and that's a stretch IMO! I was hoping more from him ! especially on the 1st line!
and for Jessiman he wasn't on the USA WJC squad and that worry me a little bit ... especially when you are a first round pick ...
anyway IMO he's a project .. and he'll take some times to develop ..
still good potential (this is why i kept him 16)
 

#37-#93-#27*

Guest
flyers guy said:
Regarding Jessiman, he's honestly not dropping too much on most peoples' lists. Before the Rangers picked Jessiman at 12 most people had Jessiman going around the early 20s, so he really hasn't dropped too much.

It's just that the Rangers were higher on him than most of the posters here were, (same with the Flyers and Carter, most people saw him going in the late teens) so his ranking really is about the same on most of the posters' lists.
Sharks wanted to trade up to draft him so obviously there was interest in drafting him high by other teams.
 

Vlad The Impaler

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
12,315
644
Montreal
Brock said:
Well O Sullivan would probably be a top 20 pick for me.

I'll take a stab at redoing this maybe later, but Off the top of my head Patty O would be a top 20 pick if i was running the draft.

I get the chance to see him a good amount because I live beside Mississauaga and IMO he's the most talented player in the OHL. His offensive abilities are absolutely top flight and his defensive game is improving too, which is good news. He pretty much creates scoring opportunities everytime he steps on the ice.

Essentially I'd like to wipe my arse with all of these supposed character issues and wipe it in the face of every GM whom passed on him in the second round and let them get a nice whiff of the hand they dealt themselves.

Yeah, I mostly agree with your comments. My point of view was more to the thread question, however. Trying to determine what the draft would be like if it was held again. My personal views on the matter are different and I can see yours are too. But if we forget how WE feel, would Pat O be a top 15 pick if the draft was done again? I say no. Too many prospects have shown themselves to be what their respective teams expected. I don't think they'd change their mind that soon. Pat has simply not raised his game enough compared to the other prospects to change the mind of all GMs and jump from up approximately 35 spots.

In a weak draft, he might have done it. But the disappointments were rare in this one so far. Most prospects are on track.

I think pat was the victim as much of bad "reports" on his characters as he was because it was a particularly good draft. That hurt him a bit, no question. Plus size too. It factors heavily at times.

I've tried to squeeze Pat O'Sullivan in the top 20 post-WJC but can't. This is all very subjective and I don't doubt he may end up being better than I expect but I couldn't squeeze him in. I think he was #24 (I did the exercise yesterday). But that's MY views. Based on what GMs have done last time, I'd be happy and somewhat surprised if he got a #25-#40 spot. The draft was only a few months ago afterall.
 

Vlad The Impaler

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
12,315
644
Montreal
Rabid Ranger said:
That wasn't my point. The assertion was Jessiman should have dropped in the draft. I asked why, and the answer was "he's a project". In response, I cited not only Jessiman's immense talent and upside, but also the fact that he is NYC born as factors why he wouldn't have dropped past the 10th overall pick, which the Rangers held. I was dealing with one specific example, not making a broad reaching statement.

I see what you mean now and agree. Unless the Rangers had another player they were contemplating but weren't sure he'd deliver. Lots of players have improved their stocks but so as Jessiman after all. So I think you're probably right.
 

cagney

cdojdmccjajgejncjaba
Jun 17, 2002
3,817
39
DanielBriere48 said:
If Minnesota wins another championship (They probably will), it will be because of Vanek.

Do you even follow NCAA hockey?
 

Anksun

Registered User
Dec 13, 2002
3,616
1
Montreal
Visit site
Kastsitsyn have done little for now to goes up in the standing but nothing to goes down.

He was draft at 10 because of somes health issues. 6 months with absolutly no signs of health problems by itself is a +. And his performance in CSKA-2 isnt too shaby.

Of course he's not in nhl but for now, no way he would be pick after 10th spot.
 

cagney

cdojdmccjajgejncjaba
Jun 17, 2002
3,817
39
BartG101 said:
Do you?

They're 8-1-2 over their past 11 games.

So I guess that means they "probably will" win thier third title. Tell that to North Dakota or Boston College.
 

Marmax

Registered User
Dec 28, 2002
576
0
Montreal
Visit site
Anksun said:
Kastsitsyn have done little for now to goes up in the standing but nothing to goes down.

He was draft at 10 because of somes health issues. 6 months with absolutly no signs of health problems by itself is a +. And his performance in CSKA-2 isnt too shaby.

Of course he's not in nhl but for now, no way he would be pick after 10th spot.

I heard one of LA scout on draft day saying that Kastsitsyn would likely have been LA pick's if Montreal didn't take their chance on him, so I think he was a sure-fire top 12 player on draft day.
 

Kirk- NEHJ

Registered User
Aug 22, 2002
12,745
1
CAV Country!
www.hockeyjournal.com
Brock said:
Essentially I'd like to wipe my arse with all of these supposed character issues and wipe it in the face of every GM whom passed on him in the second round and let them get a nice whiff of the hand they dealt themselves.

And I do agree that people are truly now seing that we weren't all lying when we said that this draft was the best ever.

Interesting thoughts.

I was told days before the draft that the Bruins wanted no part of O'Sullivan, even though I too, had hoped they would roll the dice on him. I figured after the Evseev pick in 2002, that the B's would gamble on O'Sullivan, but I can only surmise that there were issues that went beyond his father.

However, that they came away with Mark Stuart (21) and Patrice Bergeron (45) before O'Sullivan went to Minnesota, I'd hardly say that the Boston organization needs to be whiffing anything other than the aroma of their own initial success in Nashville thus far. They have a solid prospect in Stuart, and a player who's getting it done in the best league on the planet. Nobody in Boston is lamenting the fact that the B's passed on O'Sullivan- I assure you of that.

Anyway- this is all subjective. Just remember that while O'Sullivan's clutch goals in the WJC are laudable, he has yet to do anything at the NHL level. Meanwhile, Bergeron has made a real name for himself as one of the top rookies in a very impressive draft class. When O'Sullivan does some of the same with the Wild against NHL opponents, then perhaps you can trumpet the failures of the various GM's around the league not to grab him higher. Until then, he has yet to prove that passing on him was a mistake, even if he's managed to raise his stock from June.
 

Lord

Registered User
Yeah... very interesting to read statements concerning Kastitsyn's perfomance from people, who didn't see him at least for one minute this season... :shakehead
In CSKA he's failing to deliever anything worth speaking about to the moment. Yes, limited time bla-bla.... I have seen him a couple games and could hardly remember more than 1 or 2 nice moves. Yes, its still early to make final conclusions, but Zherdev last season was really great in CSKA.
 

X-SHARKIE

Registered User
Zherdev over Kastisyn, I still would take that. BUT! Don't let his disapointing year deflate his stock, everybody has off years, Look at Mike Modano, arguably the best Center in the league has been a big disapointment, but the Stars still would have him over 98% of the players in the league.

Don't let one year fool you, Teams draft these guys all knowing hey, "It's going to be 5 years on average from now before we see what he can really do". Kastisyn oooozes potential, plus he just works his as* off. I still would take him top 10 even with this season mabey. Thomas Vanek, IMO He really looks like he's going to score some goals some day in the NHL, even though he looked awful at the WJC, on a awful team may I add, and he has been very so so in Minnesota, It doesnt mean I think he shouldn't even be top 10! I think Thomas Vanek should be out of the top 5, the Sabres may be wise to sign him next year, Vanek has an attitude problem, Zherdev is 10 x's as mature then he is, and thats just sad. Bring him up next year and put him in the AHL and teach him some things, and add some details to the game, show him how to act like a pro, and stop being a pee wee. I still like Vanek as a prospect. Just his attitude AHHH
 

Lord

Registered User
X-SHARKIE said:
Zherdev over Kastisyn, I still would take that. BUT! Don't let his disapointing year deflate his stock, everybody has off years, Look at Mike Modano, arguably the best Center in the league has been a big disapointment, but the Stars still would have him over 98% of the players in the league.

Don't let one year fool you, Teams draft these guys all knowing hey, "It's going to be 5 years on average from now before we see what he can really do". Kastisyn oooozes potential, plus he just works his as* off. I still would take him top 10 even with this season mabey. Thomas Vanek, IMO He really looks like he's going to score some goals some day in the NHL, even though he looked awful at the WJC, on a awful team may I add, and he has been very so so in Minnesota, It doesnt mean I think he shouldn't even be top 10! I think Thomas Vanek should be out of the top 5, the Sabres may be wise to sign him next year, Vanek has an attitude problem, Zherdev is 10 x's as mature then he is, and thats just sad. Bring him up next year and put him in the AHL and teach him some things, and add some details to the game, show him how to act like a pro, and stop being a pee wee. I still like Vanek as a prospect. Just his attitude AHHH
Just one interesting detail, i forgot to mention. In the CSKA current line-up there are tree young forwards besides Kastitsyn. Isles prospect Chernykh (1985), Dubinin (1985) and Parshin (1986). And they all looking much better than Kastitsyn, who often remains invicible on the ice. At least his young teamates playing with much more passion and desire. I have received such impression watching some CSKA games this season.

Just another 2 cents.
 

Preds666

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
7,321
359
Swedish prospects only.. and just a guess :)

+ Loui Eriksson (Dallas) would have been a first rounder
+ Nicklas Danielsson (Vancouver) would have been selected in the 4th round instead of the 5th

- Robert Nilsson (NY Islanders) would have drafted around #25 overall
- Kalle Olsson (Edmonton) would have been selected in rounds 6-8 instead of round 5.
- Liam Lindström (Phoenix) would have been selected in rounds 5-7 instead of round 4
 
Last edited:
Jul 29, 2003
31,639
5,336
Saskatoon
Visit site
Kryoptix said:
Getzlaf was IMO the worst player on the Burns-Carter-Getzlaf line ...
he didn't show any creativity with the puck and didn't use his size like he could .. not a top skater too ... he was OK at the WJC and that's a stretch IMO! I was hoping more from him ! especially on the 1st line!
and for Jessiman he wasn't on the USA WJC squad and that worry me a little bit ... especially when you are a first round pick ...
anyway IMO he's a project .. and he'll take some times to develop ..
still good potential (this is why i kept him 16)

You obviously are going by only WJC performance, which can be at times a terrible resource.

So going by your logic, Lupul should've gone lower because of a bad WJC? That's far from the truth, as Murray's decision to give Nashville a couple picks to take Upshall instead is looking like a good one.

Also, when you say that you put Jessiman at 16th because of potential, it makes you look dumb when you day Getzlaf should be at 25th because of a decent WJC. If we're going on potential, Getzlaf's stock would raise quite a bit.
 

The Mars Volchenkov

Registered User
Mar 31, 2002
49,604
3,421
Colorado
I’m sure if it was done again, Igor Mirnov would be taken in the first round probably. He’s been great in Russia and was a steal late in the 2nd round.

Maybe Eaves would move up a bit, but injuries are still a concern with him.
 

KingPurpleDinosaur

Bandwagon Kings Fan
Dec 17, 2002
2,897
0
irvine, ca
www.anteaterhockey.com
on many lists brown either stayed or was dropped. duno why, he made the NHL the year after he was drafted, which was pretty impresive. i deifnatley see him coming before carter at the very least. he contributed many of the intangibles to the kings and played very well in comparison to frolov in his first year. two bad things though, unable to score many points and got injured. but i'm guessing that once he comes back from injury, people will be bumping him up higher ont he list again.
 

Vlad The Impaler

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
12,315
644
Montreal
I've "learned" thanks to this thread that 95% of prospects drafted in the 1st round s well as many in the 2nd round should move up or stay the same :p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->