Speculation: If TB is out of contention at the trade deadline… who would you offer up?

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Sky04

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I don't think he was the biggest reason, but that series was so close that I think that would have been the difference. Johnson breaking his wrist was massive.

He had a 2.2GAA, .920 save% that series and let in more than 2 goals once the entire series, I could easily name you 5 bigger factors before Bishop in that matchup.
 

RegularSznAllStars

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I don't think he was the biggest reason, but that series was so close that I think that would have been the difference. Johnson breaking his wrist was massive.

If Johnson didnt break that wrist, may have been a very different series. Anyone recall what game he broke it in?
 

Rschmitz

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He had a 2.2GAA, .920 save% that series and let in more than 2 goals once the entire series, I could easily name you 5 bigger factors before Bishop in that matchup.

I was making the case for Bishop's puck handling helping the team open up on offense. The goalie stats aren't going to reflect that. It was a big point of discussion during the series though.

Anyone can look at the stat sheet and see that Vasy did well, but if you watched the games you would have been able to see the difference that Bishop made in the transition game
 

DFC

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I was making the case for Bishop's puck handling helping the team open up on offense. The goalie stats aren't going to reflect that. It was a big point of discussion during the series though.

Anyone can look at the stat sheet and see that Vasy did well, but if you watched the games you would have been able to see the difference that Bishop made in the transition game

I've always thought it was more than puckhandling. Bishop's ability to sense when we're in trouble and get us out of that trouble (he will literally jump out of his crease to cover a puck) has been a huge part of our success. I've never seen a goalie manage a game like him. And I think there's a domino effect. We spend less time in our own zone, so when we do transition to offense, we're generally fresher.

All that said, Vasy really hasn't been having a ton of problems with this the way he was during his slump. He's never going to be Bishop in terms of game management, but, at times, he's been part of the problem we have on D. I don't think he has been lately.
 

Rschmitz

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I kind of lump puck handling into the whole game mangement side, but you are absolutely right. He'll cover the puck to slow down the game or play the puck if he senses it'll benefit in some way, he's extraordinary
 

DFC

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I kind of lump puck handling into the whole game mangement side, but you are absolutely right. He'll cover the puck to slow down the game or play the puck if he senses it'll benefit in some way, he's extraordinary

Yeah, it's both sides. He just has ways of affecting the game that I'd never even considered before watching him every night.
 

Sky04

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Yeah, it's both sides. He just has ways of affecting the game that I'd never even considered before watching him every night.

He's also extremely vocal and seems like one of the most respected guys in the locker room, Bishop is a leader you don't want to let down, Vasi is like everyone's kid brother, it's not the same.
 

Nautica54

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He's also extremely vocal and seems like one of the most respected guys in the locker room, Bishop is a leader you don't want to let down, Vasi is like everyone's kid brother, it's not the same.

+1

I really would hate to see bish leave. He really has developed into a core piece but I get the whole having Vasy and needing cap space etc. Just don't know if it's the right move.

If we let him go, I have a good feeling someone's going to add bishop as a piece to put them over the top and we will be seeing him win a cup
 

DFC

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So... not to be too jinxy, but how close do you guys think we have to be in order to turn from sellers to buyers?
 

Stammertime91

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So... not to be too jinxy, but how close do you guys think we have to be in order to turn from sellers to buyers?

I don't think Yzerman loses any assets with a rather weak team making one last push with the way washington, pittsburgh, ottawa, boston, montreal and Columbus play. Lets be realistic, 6 days ago we were pissed at losing in OT to Dallas. This team has a mountain to climb just to get in and stay there, let alone make some noise for a third year in a row. Its not worth losing prospects or picks for a rental or bringing on another forward that we have to clear room/contracts for. Defensively, nobody should be leaving. It would make us even weaker back there.

I think we either sell or stay put, buying looks to be completely out of the question. I personally don't see how we bring somebody in.
 

DFC

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I don't think Yzerman loses any assets with a rather weak team making one last push with the way washington, pittsburgh, ottawa, boston, montreal and Columbus play. Lets be realistic, 6 days ago we were pissed at losing in OT to Dallas. This team has a mountain to climb just to get in and stay there, let alone make some noise for a third year in a row. Its not worth losing prospects or picks for a rental or bringing on another forward that we have to clear room/contracts for. Defensively, nobody should be leaving. It would make us even weaker back there.

I think we either sell or stay put, buying looks to be completely out of the question. I personally don't see how we bring somebody in.

I'm not saying we'll go crazy. But we have two games left before the TDL, and it's not unthinkable that we'll be pretty solidly in the playoff hunt after those games. At that point, maybe we can't sell some of the assets we would likely be looking to sell otherwise (Boyle, Flip, Bishop). Or maybe a Bish-for-Shattenkirk deal suddenly makes sense ( if management weighs out Bishop vs. Vasy+Shattenkirk and concludes the latter gives us a better shot).

I mean, yeah, we've been bad this year. But this is still the team that made back to back ECFs, and was two games from a cup two years ago. We could be getting some version of Stamkos back within a month or so. It depends on how the next week goes, but if we get some help like we did last night, I don't think it would be crazy for management to decide it's worth investing a little bit in this year.

ADD: But that's my view. I guess the question I'm asking is just, what would have to happen between now and trade deadline to make someone think we should try to make a push? Or is it even possible for us to get in that position (from your view) right now? Like, if by some miracle, we're two points out, or even tied, should we still be approaching the deadline like sellers? Or just stand pat? Or, at that point, should we be looking to make the team better for this season? Is there a tipping point?
 
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MattM92

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I'm not saying we'll go crazy. But we have two games left before the TDL, and it's not unthinkable that we'll be pretty solidly in the playoff hunt after those games. At that point, maybe we can't sell some of the assets we would likely be looking to sell otherwise (Boyle, Flip, Bishop). Or maybe a Bish-for-Shattenkirk deal suddenly makes sense ( if management weighs out Bishop vs. Vasy+Shattenkirk and concludes the latter gives us a better shot).

I mean, yeah, we've been bad this year. But this is still the team that made back to back ECFs, and was two games from a cup two years ago. We could be getting some version of Stamkos back within a month or so. It depends on how the next week goes, but if we get some help like we did last night, I don't think it would be crazy for management to decide it's worth investing a little bit in this year.

ADD: But that's my view. I guess the question I'm asking is just, what would have to happen between now and trade deadline to make someone think we should try to make a push? Or is it even possible for us to get in that position (from your view) right now? Like, if by some miracle, we're two points out, or even tied, should we still be approaching the deadline like sellers? Or just stand pat? Or, at that point, should we be looking to make the team better for this season? Is there a tipping point?

We would have to win these last 2 games for him to consider holding on to all pieces.
 

Leonardo87

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Don't see any moves happening , too close to a playoff spot to be sellers but because they are currently not in a spot, not really buyers either. Unless a team is willing to trade a 1st rounder. No one is going anywhere.
 

Rschmitz

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So... not to be too jinxy, but how close do you guys think we have to be in order to turn from sellers to buyers?

I don't think these last two games will matter much on what he will do, only what kinds of value he will be able to get.

I think it depends on the deal, he could be either. Kind of like when he dealt Connolly but also traded for Coburn.

I don't think he will sell for pure futures or buy a rental, and I think the RFAS like Killorn, TJ, and Palat are off the table until after the season. Bishop and Boyle are definitely in play though, and probably Garrison or Coburn or even Condra. If he's buying I bet Namestnikov, Sustr, and Koekkoek would be in play also.
 

HoseEmDown

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I would retain 1.2mil on either Garrison or Filpulla if someone takes Condra with him. Keeps the total caphit the same but makes Garrison and Filppula more valuable at a lower price. I'm sure next year Condra will be easy to move or claimed on waivers if sent down, right now nobody wants to claim a player with an extra year left.
 

The Macho King

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I would retain 1.2mil on either Garrison or Filpulla if someone takes Condra with him. Keeps the total caphit the same but makes Garrison and Filppula more valuable at a lower price. I'm sure next year Condra will be easy to move or claimed on waivers if sent down, right now nobody wants to claim a player with an extra year left.

Eh - burying Condra only carries a cap hit of like 300k - we get to hide 900k of it. Ideally we move him, but if we don't we'll survive.
 

HoseEmDown

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Eh - burying Condra only carries a cap hit of like 300k - we get to hide 900k of it. Ideally we move him, but if we don't we'll survive.

But it's easier to move Filppula and Garrison at a lower caphit. Nobody wants Garrison at 4.6, 3.4 and he's bearable for a year. Filpulla at 3.8 is a steal. That's how we get some value for them. Adding Condra doesn't kill the value because as you said he could be buried for cheap.
 

garmonbozia

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Callahan officially being done for the year allows us to add a fairly pricey expiring contract rental without necessarily sending a bunch of cap back. As long as the cost is picks/prospects isn't too much, it would be smart use of available space to try and get something to help out the rest of the way.

Overall I expect us to stand pat, but, I won't be surprised if something happens with Cally being done. Especially if pick up another 3 or 4 pts before the deadline.
 

DFC

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Callahan officially being done for the year allows us to add a fairly pricey expiring contract rental without necessarily sending a bunch of cap back. As long as the cost is picks/prospects isn't too much, it would be smart use of available space to try and get something to help out the rest of the way.

Overall I expect us to stand pat, but, I won't be surprised if something happens with Cally being done. Especially if pick up another 3 or 4 pts before the deadline.

Tonight could make a huge difference in our plans.
 

dechire

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Tonight could make a huge difference in our plans.

Yup. We have 4 potential point before the TDL. If we get 3-4 we'll probably keep what we have and maybe be buyers. If we get 0-1 we sell. If we get 2 points it could go either way.
 

DFC

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Yup. We have 4 potential point before the TDL. If we get 3-4 we'll probably keep what we have and maybe be buyers. If we get 0-1 we sell. If we get 2 points it could go either way.

One eye on those other WC teams too. Isles and Bs are both in super tough tonight. And, not a WC team, but the Leafs have a tough opponent too.

All we can do is win. But it's not unrealistic to think we're either going to end up two points out, or four points out but with a game at hand.

We must be over 20% now? Just a guess.

(I've so jinxed this game by getting so pumped for it.)
 
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