Speculation: If TB is out of contention at the trade deadline… who would you offer up?

[Todd1a]

Right - but Yzerman has to make a decision in one week. Do we buy? Do we sell? Do we stand pat?

If we make up a bit of ground in the meantime, maybe he changes his decision, but my bet is if we are not at least a coinflip's chance of being in the playoffs by next week, he will at least sell off our pending UFAs.

Id say he stands pat but does not buy

 

[HoseEmDown]

So? Players develop at a different pace, don't get your point considering Bishop is established now while Vasi is a gamble. You're saying because one gamble worked (when we were nowhere near cup contending mode) we should do it again (with more on the line)?

Not really, Vasi played better but that didn't result in more points, through their first 10 starts Bishop picked up 5 wins and Vasi picked up 6 in his first 10, then each only picked up 4 wins in their next 10 games each. They stay pretty even until this recent stretch where Bishop is clearly better. Problem with Vasi is that even though he has a good game he'll still manage to lose, Bishop can actually will out a win.

How is it anything like Bishop's gamble? Vasilevskiy has played and proven much more in the NHL prior to becoming the starter. He carried a KHL team far in the playoffs while Bishop never carried an AHL team far. It's less of a gamble with Vasilevskiy because you have a better sample size to go off to know what you're going to get.

It's easy to will out a win when you get goal support. Bishop has gotten far superior goal support than Vasilevskiy in thier starts. Vasilevskiy had a stretch of 5 straight appearances with allowing 2 goals or less and went 1-3-1. I'll give you Bishop helps generate a bit more offense with his puckhandling but Vasilevskiy has put the team in position to win or get points and was let down.

 

[Sky04]

How is it anything like Bishop's gamble? Vasilevskiy has played and proven much more in the NHL prior to becoming the starter. He carried a KHL team far in the playoffs while Bishop never carried an AHL team far. It's less of a gamble with Vasilevskiy because you have a better sample size to go off to know what you're going to get.

It's easy to will out a win when you get goal support. Bishop has gotten far superior goal support than Vasilevskiy in thier starts. Vasilevskiy had a stretch of 5 straight appearances with allowing 2 goals or less and went 1-3-1. I'll give you Bishop helps generate a bit more offense with his puckhandling but Vasilevskiy has put the team in position to win or get points and was let down.

lol the gamble isn't between current Vasi and 2012 Bishop, it's between an established Bishop and current Vasi to carry an NHL team, one has done so the other hasn't.

Hm probably because of who's in net.....Not saying it's all Vasi's fault but there's definitely a trend where he plays well and still ends up with the L, if the team can't put it together in front of him that's worrisome.

 

[HoseEmDown]

lol the gamble isn't between current Vasi and 2012 Bishop, it's between an established Bishop and current Vasi to carry an NHL team, one has done so the other hasn't.

Hm probably because of who's in net.....Not saying it's all Vasi's fault but there's definitely a trend where he plays well and still ends up with the L, if the team can't put it together in front of him that's worrisome.

We had no other options in 2012 so Bishop was handed the job without proving anything. Now we have a great young goaltender ready for the job who's much more proven than Bishop was. An established Bishop hopefully helps us, get a nice return that's about it.

There's a problem with the team not the goalie if they can only get up to perform when a certain goalie is in net.

 

[dechire]

I'm a huge fan of Vasy. But if Bishop were traded March 1st and Vasy was our starter for the rest of the season how many people here think we'd have any chance of making the playoffs ?

 

[HoseEmDown]

I'm a huge fan of Bishop. But if Vasilevskiy were traded March 1st and Bishop was our starter for the rest of the season how many people here think we'd have any chance of making the playoffs ?

Fixed.

 

[MattM92]

I'm a huge fan of Vasy. But if Bishop were traded March 1st and Vasy was our starter for the rest of the season how many people here think we'd have any chance of making the playoffs ?

It's currently at 13% so it can't get a whole lot worse.

 

[dechire]

It's currently at 13% so it can't get a whole lot worse.

0% is a lot worse than 13%. I'm asking how many people think there would be any chance.

 

[HoseEmDown]

0% is a lot worse than 13%. I'm asking how many people think there would be any chance.

6 of his last 8 appearances he's given up 2 goals or less and we got 5 points out of it. 6 of Bishop's last 8 appearances he's given up 2 goals or less and we got 11 points out of it. Vasilevskiy is giving us the same chance Bishop has but the team hasn't helped him out. I don't think it matters who's in net we are too far out.

 

[Stammertime91]

6 of his last 8 appearances he's given up 2 goals or less and we got 5 points out of it. 6 of Bishop's last 8 appearances he's given up 2 goals or less and we got 11 points out of it. Vasilevskiy is giving us the same chance Bishop has but the team hasn't helped him out. I don't think it matters who's in net we are too far out.

I think you're on to something. I think the team purposely scores more goals and tries to win when Bishop is in and when Vasy is in I think they don't care. 18 pros out there just winging it when 88 is in net. You're probably right!

 

[Nautica54]

I think you're on to something. I think the team purposely scores more goals and tries to win when Bishop is in and when Vasy is in I think they don't care. 18 pros out there just winging it when 88 is in net. You're probably right!

Honestly I think the point is something I have been saying for months.

Bish is a general back there and the offense opens up with him in net.

The skaters knowing they have a netminder behind them who may let in a goal or two but not break, and at the same time command the pace of the game at times with his puckhandling ability.

Your oblivious If you don't think there's a chance a team skates differently knowing the ability they have behind them in net, and knowing u have a goalie who could fall apart with the next goal he gives up as Vasy has shown a tendency to do multiple times this year.

 

[Leonardo87]

I think you're on to something. I think the team purposely scores more goals and tries to win when Bishop is in and when Vasy is in I think they don't care. 18 pros out there just winging it when 88 is in net. You're probably right!

Vasi needs to start picking up the tab at dinner.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I think you're on to something. I think the team purposely scores more goals and tries to win when Bishop is in and when Vasy is in I think they don't care. 18 pros out there just winging it when 88 is in net. You're probably right!

I'm absolutely right. Just look at Palat, guy was probably on his way to being waived to scoring goals all of a sudden, Johnson was close to being unqualified as a RFA to dishing out great saucer passes, Dotchin was on his way to the ECHL to a decent bottom pair defender, the list goes on and on. These guys are sabotaging Vasilevskiy because they want Bishop, they love to get really close than having it end abruptly. These sickos love blue balls and Bishop gives them that, while Vasilevskiy will finish them off and who wants that satisfaction?

 

[dechire]

Honestly I think the point is something I have been saying for months.

Bish is a general back there and the offense opens up with him in net.

The skaters knowing they have a netminder behind them who may let in a goal or two but not break, and at the same time command the pace of the game at times with his puckhandling ability.

Your oblivious If you don't think there's a chance a team skates differently knowing the ability they have behind them in net, and knowing u have a goalie who could fall apart with the next goal he gives up as Vasy has shown a tendency to do multiple times this year.

I think there's two issues at play:

#1 Bishop is absolutely undeniably better at playing the puck which is a very valuable skill for a goaltender and can lead directly to more offense. That's something that Vasy just can't match. That won't stop him from being a great goalie but when you switch out Bishop for Vasy it changes the dynamic in the defensive zone. That can be compensated for via coaching but as long as Bishop remains the starter there aren't going to be the necessary changes in structure to compensate. Skaters are still expecting to get bailed out but Bishiop isn't there to do it while Vasy's in net.

#2 Vasy doesn't have the experience and confidence that Bishop does and subsequently the players have less confidence in Vasy(even if it's just subconscious). This isn't a forever issue because Vasy will gain those things as time passes and the skaters will have more faith in him. But there's definitely going to be growing pains. And we saw a pretty bad example of that while Bishop was out. If we're going into next year planning to be a contender, Vasy might not get us there while he's working out these issues. Or maybe he will. I don't doubt that he has the ability. The question becomes: are we willing to let next year become another throwaway year if Vasy struggles ?

I don't have an answer for what the team should do. I just know that I don't think Vasy is ready to be a full-time starter tomorrow. Or at least not become one and also win a lot of games.

 

[Stammertime91]

Your oblivious If you don't think there's a chance a team skates differently knowing the ability they have behind them in net, and knowing u have a goalie who could fall apart with the next goal he gives up as Vasy has shown a tendency to do multiple times this year.

Yeah that sounds reassuring for 60 games next year.

For 2015-2016:
12 out of 21 starts last year, Vasy let in 3 or more goals. 57% of his starts.

19 out of 60 starts last year, Bishop let in 3 or more goals. 33% of his starts.

For 2016-2017:
15 out of 28 starts this year, Vasy let in 3 or more goals. 54% of his starts.

14 out of 31 starts this year, Bishop let in 3 or more goals. 45% of his starts.

Given they've both been bad, you cannot outscore teams on a nightly basis where you're letting in 3 and be a legitimate contender. Yeah maybe an outlier does it like an 8th seed Kings won the cup, but it's going to be extremely difficult. Considering the structure change in defense or system implemented from Cooper, if Vasy is the #1 next year, the excuses of "no goal support" or "the team plays differently" needs to sure as hell go away cause he will be the guy with the reigns. Our defense was better last year and Vasy still let in 3 goals or more at a higher rate. Given the sample size is smaller, this year doesn't show much of a difference. Bishop clearly has had a down year compared to last year but the difference is quite glaring.

You can't call this lack of goal support... forwards are held accountable when they suck, defense when they suck and both goalies should be held accountable when they suck as well.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Yeah that sounds reassuring for 60 games next year.

For 2015-2016:
12 out of 21 starts last year, Vasy let in 3 or more goals. 57% of his starts.

19 out of 60 starts last year, Bishop let in 3 or more goals. 33% of his starts.

For 2016-2017:
15 out of 28 starts this year, Vasy let in 3 or more goals. 54% of his starts.

14 out of 31 starts this year, Bishop let in 3 or more goals. 45% of his starts.

Given they've both been bad, you cannot outscore teams on a nightly basis where you're letting in 3 and be a legitimate contender. Yeah maybe an outlier does it like an 8th seed Kings won the cup, but it's going to be extremely difficult. Considering the structure change in defense or system implemented from Cooper, if Vasy is the #1 next year, the excuses of "no goal support" or "the team plays differently" needs to sure as hell go away cause he will be the guy with the reigns. Our defense was better last year and Vasy still let in 3 goals or more at a higher rate. Given the sample size is smaller, this year doesn't show much of a difference. Bishop clearly has had a down year compared to last year but the difference is quite glaring.

You can't call this lack of goal support... forwards are held accountable when they suck, defense when they suck and both goalies should be held accountable when they suck as well.

So what you're saying is Vasilevskiy has improved from last year, with a worse defense as you say, and Bishop has declined? We definitely need to go with the one in decline.

 

[Stammertime91]

So what you're saying is Vasilevskiy has improved from last year, with a worse defense as you say, and Bishop has declined? We definitely need to go with the one in decline.

Improvement by 3% for 60 games next year, continue that trend and he's still letting in 3 goals ore more on over half his starts. Sick improvement.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Improvement by 3% for 60 games next year, continue that trend and he's still letting in 3 goals ore more on over half his starts. Sick improvement.

Better than declining by 12%.

 

[Stammertime91]

Better than declining by 12%.

Lmao

 

[Todd1a]

I'm a huge fan of Vasy. But if Bishop were traded March 1st and Vasy was our starter for the rest of the season how many people here think we'd have any chance of making the playoffs ?

Personally no playoffs this year ! But if vasy is our starter next year we won't make the playoffs period. Bishop the next 2-3 years better then vasy! But vasy the next 10 years after that much better.

 

[Rschmitz]

That's definitely the biggest concern for me between the two, is Bishop's puck handling ability. During our cup run he single handedly castrated Montreals and New Yorks offense in their elimination games, their dump and chase game plan never worked, it was amazing to watch.

Because of that, our offense was able to open up a lot more, so saying teams play differently in front of different goaltenders is totally accurate. The team plays a more structured defensive game in front of Vasy.

On the flip side is the other major difference, injuries. If Bishop is healthy we win against Pittsburgh and the Hawks, there is no question in my mind. Yet, he can't stay healthy. Add in the cap hit and likely decline of Bishop due to age and I have to begrudgingly go with Vasy.

 

[MattM92]

That's definitely the biggest concern for me between the two, is Bishop's puck handling ability. During our cup run he single handedly castrated Montreals and New Yorks offense in their elimination games, their dump and chase game plan never worked, it was amazing to watch.

Because of that, our offense was able to open up a lot more, so saying teams play differently in front of different goaltenders is totally accurate. The team plays a more structured defensive game in front of Vasy.

On the flip side is the other major difference, injuries. If Bishop is healthy we win against Pittsburgh and the Hawks, there is no question in my mind. Yet, he can't stay healthy. Add in the cap hit and likely decline of Bishop due to age and I have to begrudgingly go with Vasy.

Unless Bishop started scoring goals too we weren't beating the Hawks. His injury didn't help, but the offense was neutered.

 

[Sky04]

lol Bishop being healthy or not wasn't the difference in beating the hawks, he actually was our best player after Hedman. Terrible coaching is the biggest difference in that series.

 

[Stammertime91]

lol Bishop being healthy or not wasn't the difference in beating the hawks, he actually was our best player after Hedman. Terrible coaching is the biggest difference in that series.

 

[Rschmitz]

Unless Bishop started scoring goals too we weren't beating the Hawks. His injury didn't help, but the offense was neutered.

I don't think he was the biggest reason, but that series was so close that I think that would have been the difference. Johnson breaking his wrist was massive.