If Samuelson did not Knee on knee Neely...

[BNHL]

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000501992.html


This team was absolutely stacked and in my opinion would have won no matter what.

 

[BNHL]

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000501991.html

.....so was this team!!! Interesting that Barry Pederson was on the team earlier in the year.

 

[Zoo]

I think the Bruins would have won, Neely was awesome in that series as was Janney and Bourque.


I don't even think that hit was dirty

Cam moved his weight to the left side too side step Ulf, and his legs of course moved last. So his legs where wide open

Ulf was going for a shoulder to shoulder hit, but Cam moved to his left .... but didn't move fast enough. Hence the knee on knee hit.

Yeah you might say I'm a homer but I wasn't a hockey fan back then and when I did get into hockey Ulf was long gone from the pens.

But I have seen the hit alot of times and watched all of the highlights from the series.

 

[RSBPC]

I think the Bruins would have won, Neely was awesome in that series as was Janney and Bourque.


I don't even think that hit was dirty

Cam moved his weight to the left side too side step Ulf, and his legs of course moved last. So his legs where wide open

Ulf was going for a shoulder to shoulder hit, but Cam moved to his left .... but didn't move fast enough. Hence the knee on knee hit.

Yeah you might say I'm a homer but I wasn't a hockey fan back then and when I did get into hockey Ulf was long gone from the pens.

But I have seen the hit alot of times and watched all of the highlights from the series.

Do you really think it was unintentional even though Ulf did the EXACT same thing to multiple players? I really don't understand how people can watch the video I linked to and conclude that it was anything other than a dirty hit and an attempt to injure.

 

[Zoo]

Do you really think it was unintentional even though Ulf did the EXACT same thing to multiple players? I really don't understand how people can watch the video I linked to and conclude that it was anything other than a dirty hit and an attempt to injure.

If you watched that series Ulf nailed Cam with a hit very simliar. Ulf came in the same way again ... hell I thought it was a reply. But it was different Cam shifted to the left at the last minute and left his legs wide open .... knee on knee hit.

Hey its not as if I wanted to see Cam get wasted and end his career early. I'm just posting what I sore on the play.

 

[RSBPC]

If you watched that series Ulf nailed Cam with a hit very simliar. Ulf came in the same way again ... hell I thought it was a reply. But it was different Cam shifted to the left at the last minute and left his legs wide open .... knee on knee hit.

Hey its not as if I wanted to see Cam get wasted and end his career early. I'm just posting what I sore on the play.

But aside from Neely, Ulf injured other players with knee to knee hits identical to what he did to Cam. It was not an isolated incident, and because of that I don't see how you can say it was unintentional.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tQsE3BIcKo

 

[Zoo]

But aside from Neely, Ulf injured other players with knee to knee hits identical to what he did to Cam. It was not an isolated incident, and because of that I don't see how you can say it was unintentional.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tQsE3BIcKo

Thanks for the tube, that did shed some light. I should point out I haven't seen much of Ulf games to put him in the same class as the Marchments of this world, although I have seen the bruins - pens series.

So with out a doubt that was dirty, after watching a few more hits and the way Ulf leads with his knee.

But in my defence being pretty new to the game, I didn't know Ulf's history. All I sore was the hit that put Neely out and didn't think it was that bad, given the way Neely tried to avoid it.

So without question ... I was wrong after seeing Ulf's history

 

[J0e Th0rnton*]

Thanks for the tube, that did shed some light. I should point out I haven't seen much of Ulf games to put him in the same class as the Marchments of this world, although I have seen the bruins - pens series.

So with out a doubt that was dirty, after watching a few more hits and the way Ulf leads with his knee.

But in my defence being pretty new to the game, I didn't know Ulf's history. All I sore was the hit that put Neely out and didn't think it was that bad, given the way Neely tried to avoid it.

So without question ... I was wrong after seeing Ulf's history

The funny thing is, that wasn;t the only knee one Knee Ulf gave Cam that Series.
The big well known one which ruined Cam for the series. Cam was ineffective after this hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd8cDxL_5IE

This hit was game 3. It shows milbury getting ready for game 4 with 3 goons inserted into the lineup.

Game 6, Ulf was the one that ruined Neely's career. Ulf lined up behind Neely going to the boards, and drove his knee behind Cam's knee when they hit the boards. People just assumed it was the first hit's pain acting up, but it was pretty much a Marchment into the boards, except Ulf was the pioneer of the move.

 

[BNHL]

Byers maybe but Pederson and Markwart goons?? Markwart (the kamikaze kid) at 5'11" and 175 lbs. scared noone but Claude Lemieux and Allen Pedersen of the 10 fights in 400 games? Who did they replace? Why? Did the team need a spark? Goons,maybe 1 but definitely not 3.

 

[Zoo]

Here's a download link to this series

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=353220

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Samuelson's good. Marchment was always much more obvious. But, if you watch carefully you see two things. 1. Samuelson made no attempt to properly check Neely. 2. he made no attempt to get out of the way.

looking at the video, he was going for a big hit and Neely tried to avoid it by moving out of the way and got his knee caught. The others looked more obvious, but the one on Neely looked more like Cam's own fault to me.

 

[J0e Th0rnton*]

looking at the video, he was going for a big hit and Neely tried to avoid it by moving out of the way and got his knee caught. The others looked more obvious, but the one on Neely looked more like Cam's own fault to me.

Uh, in the video, Neely didn't move at all. They were on a collision course from the get go, because Ulf set it up.

And maybe you never watched Neely play, but he never tried to avoid a hit. He took pride in going through everybody. Ulf lined the knee up and kept going.

You can try to argue it all you want, but Ulf's track record for taking out players in this manner pretty much weigh the scales on obvious intent to injure.

 

[Zoo]

looking at the video, he was going for a big hit and Neely tried to avoid it by moving out of the way and got his knee caught. The others looked more obvious, but the one on Neely looked more like Cam's own fault to me.

That is how I felt on that particular hit. Yes Ulf has done other knee on knee hits, which I've seen, but that hit IMO didn't look as bad as the others, only because the way Cam tried to avoid the hit.

Cam pokes the puck to the right to get around the on coming hit from Ulf and then shifts to the left at the last minute to avoid the hit and BANG... knee on knee hit.


Do I think that hit was dirty ..... No

Do I think Ulf is a dirty SOB .... Yes

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Watching it again and focussing on what Neely does more than Ulffy, I can see what you're saying. Neely definite does an upper-body dodge, but not a lower body one.

 

[GarretJoseph*]

This ones easy. Pens.

 

[J0e Th0rnton*]

That is how I felt on that particular hit. Yes Ulf has done other knee on knee hits, which I've seen, but that hit IMO didn't look as bad as the others, only because the way Cam tried to avoid the hit.

Cam pokes the puck to the right to get around the on coming hit from Ulf and then shifts to the left at the last minute to avoid the hit and BANG... knee on knee hit.


Do I think that hit was dirty ..... No

Do I think Ulf is a dirty SOB .... Yes

The knee was hitting regardless of how Cam moved his upper body. Ulf planned those hits every time.

 

[GernerPSU]

The fact that this is coming down to a "what if Boston had one more player conversation" is telling. The Pens could have lost Mario and still won. They were just better. I'm a huge Neely fan, but he isn't good enough to beat the Pens single handedly.

 

[Crazyhorse]

The knee was hitting regardless of how Cam moved his upper body. Ulf planned those hits every time.

Yeah, sure.

Im sure that Ulfie planted the Myositis ossificans on Neely, with his terrible, dark powers too.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I thought it was a dirty hit and I think Boston wins the series if Ulf didnt take Neely out. The Pens had no answer for him at all, the only answer they had was to have ulfy take him out intentionally. I just couldnt see the Pens winning 4 of the next 5 with a healthy Neely in the lineup.
I dont like either team, in fact i hate em both.

 

[sunb]

I'm confident that I'm a pretty neutral observer and I can honestly say, without any bias, that the Boston Bruins probably would've won the series and the Stanley Cup had the hit not occurred. With a 2-0 series lead the lead in Game 3, Boston would've cruised to victory. Boston really hurt their own chances by changing their game-plan and injecting toughness at the expense of skilled players who carried the team so far.

However, this is a moot point because they ended up losing. Champions don't make excuses because they're completely responsible for their own fates. Part of the lure of being the winner isn't simply winning hypothetical situations but winning in spite of obstacles. If the Bruins were truly champions, they would of won despite all odds. Champions win regardless of dirty hits and would've prevailed even with the hit. The Bruins failed to mentally and emotionally triumph past their loss and succumbed to the Penguins. You can blame it on Milbury's insertion of goons or the lack of Neely. The only truth that we know, the only truth that we care about and the only truth that matter is that the Penguins won.

 

[trenton1]

I was at both games 1 and 2 and can attest to the fact that Samuelsson went after Neely on several breakouts in that same fashion. It took three games for the big collision to actually occur. Based on some of the ugly attempts Ulf didn't actually connect on early in the series, Ulf didn't care if he knocked him over or out for life. It was Marchment-style reckless, to me.
As far as who would have won? Boston sure was in the driver's seat. Make no mistake about that. With a healthy Neely and a club not focused on revenge the Bruins would have at least made it to 7 games...which would have been in Boston because...surprise, surprise, Boston had a better record that year than the Pens. Even if they were top heavy, the Bruins were still a very good team. Lemieux was the best forward in the league but he was also taking his every shift against the league's best defenseman.
With Neely healthy the Bruins could have beat the Pens in '91. I don't know if they would have neccesarily...but they absolutely could have and had a nice head start to do so. Look no further than the '93 Isles beating an even better Pittsburgh team for proof that a supposedly worse team on paper can win.

I think either team was going to beat the exhausted North Stars. It probably would have taken Boston longer though.

 

[trenton1]

I'm confident that I'm a pretty neutral observer and I can honestly say, without any bias, that the Boston Bruins probably would've won the series and the Stanley Cup had the hit not occurred. With a 2-0 series lead the lead in Game 3, Boston would've cruised to victory. Boston really hurt their own chances by changing their game-plan and injecting toughness at the expense of skilled players who carried the team so far.

However, this is a moot point because they ended up losing. Champions don't make excuses because they're completely responsible for their own fates. Part of the lure of being the winner isn't simply winning hypothetical situations but winning in spite of obstacles. If the Bruins were truly champions, they would of won despite all odds. Champions win regardless of dirty hits and would've prevailed even with the hit. The Bruins failed to mentally and emotionally triumph past their loss and succumbed to the Penguins. You can blame it on Milbury's insertion of goons or the lack of Neely. The only truth that we know, the only truth that we care about and the only truth that matter is that the Penguins won.

Very good post. The Bruins just didn't have the depth to take the hit so to speak but Neely/Bourque were so good at this point in time that they were capable of getting it done over a club as impressive as the Pens. This was Boston's best chance in that 88-94 period. I don't care what anyone says based on what I saw I think Samuelsson stalked Neely and I'll never forgive him for the results.

 

[HandshakeLine]

A point that some have made that seems to have been ignored in the Neely-fest, is that the 90 Pens played a good chunk of the year without Mario. Losing Mario, as clutch and talented as he was, wouldn't have been a death knell to the team. They were just too deep.

Boston on the other hand, had Neely and Bourque. And no matter how many other assumptions you make about the Pens or Boston, the fact of the matter is, it's easier to shut down 2 players than 6 or 7. If Neely stays in the series, I say Pens in a bloody, brutal 7, and I don't know if they beat the North Stars.

 

[J0e Th0rnton*]

I thought it was a dirty hit and I think Boston wins the series if Ulf didnt take Neely out. The Pens had no answer for him at all, the only answer they had was to have ulfy take him out intentionally. I just couldnt see the Pens winning 4 of the next 5 with a healthy Neely in the lineup.
I dont like either team, in fact i hate em both.

Exactly. Ulf was not match for Neely straight up, and the pens just plain didn;t have anybody that could even begin to contain Neely in the first 2 games. He ran over everyone and got 5 goals in his first 2 games, steamrolling the competition. Only the knee slowed him down enough to make him managable.

A point that some have made that seems to have been ignored in the Neely-fest, is that the 90 Pens played a good chunk of the year without Mario. Losing Mario, as clutch and talented as he was, wouldn't have been a death knell to the team. They were just too deep.

Boston on the other hand, had Neely and Bourque. And no matter how many other assumptions you make about the Pens or Boston, the fact of the matter is, it's easier to shut down 2 players than 6 or 7. If Neely stays in the series, I say Pens in a bloody, brutal 7, and I don't know if they beat the North Stars.

Its well known that the pens were deeper than Boston. Nobody disputes that. Boston was a 1 line team with a good goalie. We know that. But short of Dirty play, Neely played rough playoff hockey, and never got injured. Occasionally, he would sit out 5 games in the regular season to rest up because his style long term, was rough, but he was an iron man for the style he played.

The point is, Neely was a wrecking machine, and the pens had no answer for him. He walked through everyone and scored. The pens stuck 2 guys on him and he went trhough both easily. 5 goals in 2 games. He would have kept scoring like that because the pens had no Dman capable of stopping him. Only the knee on knee kept this series from being won by boston. Without losing a leg, Neely scored 2-3 goals a game against the pens squad. The bruins utterly dominated them up till the point Neely was injured. That moment combined with Milbury being stupid and gooning it up, was when the series switched momentum.

Boston would have won

 

[HandshakeLine]

Exactly. Ulf was not match for Neely straight up, and the pens just plain didn;t have anybody that could even begin to contain Neely in the first 2 games. He ran over everyone and got 5 goals in his first 2 games, steamrolling the competition. Only the knee slowed him down enough to make him managable.


Its well known that the pens were deeper than Boston. Nobody disputes that. Boston was a 1 line team with a good goalie. We know that. But short of Dirty play, Neely played rough playoff hockey, and never got injured. Occasionally, he would sit out 5 games in the regular season to rest up because his style long term, was rough, but he was an iron man for the style he played.

The point is, Neely was a wrecking machine, and the pens had no answer for him. He walked through everyone and scored. The pens stuck 2 guys on him and he went trhough both easily. 5 goals in 2 games. He would have kept scoring like that because the pens had no Dman capable of stopping him. Only the knee on knee kept this series from being won by boston. Without losing a leg, Neely scored 2-3 goals a game against the pens squad. The bruins utterly dominated them up till the point Neely was injured. That moment combined with Milbury being stupid and gooning it up, was when the series switched momentum.

Boston would have won

Wow. What kind of logic is that? Lemieux made Ray Bourque look stupid, Boston had a hard time handling Stevens and Recchi in the later games too, along with marginal Pens like Phil Bourque. I think the Pens were caught flat-footed in games 1&2, but they battled back from similar deficits throughout the playoffs. The 1991 Pens were too good as a team to lose to Boston, who was, as you admit, a 2 player team.

If you're going to start a thread like this, back up your reasoning better than "Neely was pretty tough."