If McCormick, Kaleta, Tropp and Leino are all ready to play and.....

Discussion in 'Buffalo Sabres' started by joshjull, Oct 23, 2013.

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  1. joshjull

    joshjull Moderator

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    by some miracle we have no injuries. That would give us 26 players.


    Who do you want to see waived/sent down to get to our 23 man roster? And has your opinion of who that should be changed from the start of the season when the roster was shaking out?


    I admit I'm a bit torn and could go a few ways with this. But here are a few ideas.

    -The easiest move is sending Zadorov back to juniors leaving two more moves to go regardless of how he plays. I would really like to see him get a chance to develop his offensive game in juniors. I don't see him getting much of a chance to develop it in the NHL this year.

    -I would like to either send Grigs back to juniors with the instructions to focus on his board work, defensive game, d-zone coverage and 1 on 1 battles. Or make sure he is playing with some offensively gifted players. That will be easier to do with Leino and Tropp back in the mix. That doesn't mean he gets top 6 minutes or a top 6 role but better wingers. A healthy forward group would give us plenty of wingers to go around for 3 lines; Vanek, Stafford, Ennis, Leino, Foligno, Ott, Flynn and Girgs (Obvious not all will be on the roster). But the thought with sending him to juniors is to get his game and confidence back on track on a level where he can also focus on the weaker parts of his game without being overwhelmed. I'm more concerned with getting his development back on track than I am with "wasting" a year of his contract. I truly believe if Darcy had not messed up his deal and said he was on the roster he would have been sent back to juniors after camp.

    -If Grigs stays (the most likely scenario I realize) then send Larsson down to get him heavy minutes in all situations in Rochester. Its tough to have them both on the roster and both in need of ice time to develop.

    -Send Girgs down so, like Zadorov and Larsson, he can work on his offensive game and get a chance to play in all situations with heavy minutes at a lower level. Something unlikely to happen at the NHL level.


    Thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  2. McCauleyChirps

    McCauleyChirps Gare's "Partner"

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    1) Zadorov back to Juniors
    2) Risto back to Finland
    3) Girgs back to ROC to get 1st line minutes

    If we need a D in the future - call up Ruhwedel.
     
  3. Sabresfansince1980

    Sabresfansince1980 Registered User

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    There is no right answer for Grigorenko, but I wonder if sending him back to Junior would enable him to stagnate, to keep getting away with not doing the things he needs to improve, and also maybe hurt his confidence. I wouldn't want to effectively cater to a player's attitude deficiencies, but the ultimate goal is to turn him into a legit top six C, and if holding his hand does that faster that is what helps the team faster.

    I agree that Zadorov and Girgensons are probably (unfortunately) the best options to send down, and in place of Grigorenko I'd send down Flynn since Tropp isn't waiver exempt, or send through McCormick and he'd probably clear. Injuries won't allow for that tough decision though. LOL, Flynn vs McCormick a "tough decision"...that's pitiful.
     
  4. Paxon

    Paxon ⚔Z E M G U S⚔

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    Send the youngest rookies down to Rochester, Zadorov to juniors. Waiving any of McCormick, Scott, or Porter would be acceptable.
     
  5. Ruckus007

    Ruckus007 Said too much

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    1.) Tropp rehab stint.

    2.) Zadorov to London

    3.) Girgensons to Rochester

    4.) Decide on Larsson or Flynn to Rochester or waiving McCormick or Porter once Tropp's rehab is done.



    Has Grigorenko's QMJHL right been dealt with yet? I remember Quebec saying they basically didn't want him back after the way he was handled last year (due to roster flexibility) but that may have been before Roy left and I don't know if there has been a change in thought.


    EDIT: I took the OP as meaning all players came back at the exact time but, josh, if you mean just some time in the future with all players healthy and waivers an issue, then 2-4 is my answer.
     
  6. SabresFan26

    SabresFan26 Registered User

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    I dont want to burn ELC's unless they are blatantly ready for the show.

    Girgensons hits 10 games tonight so his contract is going to start but Flynn can stay up. I send down both Risto and Zadorov.

    Grigorenko is easily the toughest case. What he needs to improve on most cannot be taught in JR. He needs to realize that if he does not improve his work effort, he will not have a future in the NHL. I would send him down though as a message that if you don't work hard there is no place for you. He can still improve on minor facets of the game as well. The Sabres need to admit their mistake and put him in the proper place to succeed.

    I would send Larsson down to play top minutes and develop slightly more and he could still be called up so he is probably 50/50 this year with ROC and BUF.

    Let our prospects continue to develop and let this current team continue to play and get us a high draft pick.

    Foligno-Hodgson-Vanek
    Leino-Ennis-Stafford
    Flynn-Porter-Ott
    Kaleta-McCormick-Tropp
    Scott
    (Girgensons #1 call up)

    Ehrhoff-Pysyk
    Tallinder-Myers
    Weber-McBain
    Sulzer

    Miller
    Enroth
     
  7. Chainshot

    Chainshot Give 'em Enough Rope

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    The caveat is that what I would do is not what I expect Regier to do AT ALL. So, that disclaimer out of the way...

    - Send Ristolainen back to Finland. His minutes have declined, he's been out of the line and now a paper transaction to shuffle the roster around involving him went through. Enough. Get him back to playing bigger minutes in all situations in a place he knows by sending him back.

    - Send Zadorov back to London. Yes, he's had a great set of camps and pre-season went well up to his injury. Now get him back to playing key minutes for the Knights, prepared for the WJC's, and on to the Memorial Cup. See if he can tap some of his offensive potential and round out his game further.

    - Find a place for Grigorenko to play where they can keep a close eye on him but also get him reps in game situations.
     
  8. SabresFan26

    SabresFan26 Registered User

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    Agree with all 3.
    There is no point to starting elc's with Zadorov and Risto. Next year both can likely make the team.
    Let Weber and McBain add to the tank.

    With Grigorenko we should loan him to Mettalurg of the KHL so that their coach (Mike Keenan) can teach him how to work and play hard. :sarcasm:
     
  9. Jim Bob

    Jim Bob Now do we believe?

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    :biglaugh:

    This should sooooooo happen.
     
  10. Zip15

    Zip15 Registered User

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    As Chain said, what I would do and what Darcy will do are very different (i.e., I don't think there's a chance in the world they send down Girgensons), but here goes:

    -Risto to Finland. He's a very good prospect, but he's not quite ready for the NHL. His possession numbers are putrid and you can tell that RonRol's confidence in him is waning a bit. Let him have another year in Turku, then bring him back across the pond next season.

    -Zadorov back to London. He's been the biggest surprise for me since camp opened, and he's definitely played himself into contention for a roster spot next year. But London is loaded for a playoff and Memorial Cup run, and he'll play huge minutes in a good program. Plus, I'd rather not burn the ELC year.

    -Girgs back to Rochester. Play him big minutes in all situations. He's nowhere near "too good" for the AHL. Slow cook him. He's going to be a good one, regardless, but I think he could be great if he develops his offensive game in the AHL. I'm fine with recall him for the last month or two, and I understand we'll probably burn the ELC year with him.

    -Bite the bullet and send Grigs back to Quebec. He's not ready yet, and I don't think he's going to develop here this season. The Remparts still have several quality forwards for him to play with (Erne, Duclair, Sorensen, et al.).

    -Call up Softzer to sit in the press box. If there are any injuries to the defense corps, get on the phone to Rochester and promote McNabb--IMO, the guy is in a sink-or-swim year with the organization given the (likely) full-time arrivals of Zadorov and McCabe next season.

    Vanek-Hodgson-Tropp
    Ennis/Foligno-Foligno/Ennis-Stafford
    Leino-Larsson-Flynn
    Ott-Porter-Kaleta
    x Scott, McCormick (these guys should play against Boston, Toronto, and not too many other teams)

    Ehrhoff-Pysyk
    Tallinder-Myers
    Weber-McBain
    x Sulzer
     
  11. Vito_81

    Vito_81 Registered User

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    Risto and Zadorov can be recalled from London and Finland correct? If injuries hit big time, you can always bring them back.

    It's the right move going forward. *****er Rolston isn't playing them the minutes they require at this point. Let Z eat up the OHL. Let Risto play heavy mins in Fin. Have them come back next season with the mindset that they'll be Sabres for the whole year.
     
  12. SabresFan26

    SabresFan26 Registered User

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    I am no expert, especially with the new CBA but,

    Zadorov cannot be recalled unless it is an emergency recall but with Rochester so close it would be hard to argue.

    Ristolainen will not be sent to Finland and then recalled back to Buffalo. (only after his Finland season ends).

    If we need to recall people than Sulzer, Ruhwedel, and McNabb are all gonna get the call if Z and Risto are sent back to JR's/Finland
     
  13. Chainshot

    Chainshot Give 'em Enough Rope

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    The Grigo thing is the hardest -- I think they're stuck with him now for the year.
     
  14. Jacob582

    Jacob582 Registered User

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    The above is correct, as I know it.

    Also, we are at 23 players now, so adding McCormick, Tropp, Kaleta and Leino would put us at 27. No?

    I think they will be conservative with bringing payers back from injury. Especially Tropp. Can he do a conditioning stint in Rochester as another poster stated? It would make sense.

    If Girgensons plays tonight, I would still send him down. Let him be successful creating offense in the AHL. We burn a year of his ELC, but he would not be a year closer to UFA unless he is on the roster for more than 40 games this year.
     
  15. joshjull

    joshjull Moderator

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    http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/


    The starting 12 forwards, 8 dmen, 2 goalies and 4 forwards skating without a line equals 26 total. Unless I'm missing someone.

    If we have 23 on the roster with 8 dmen, it means one of McCormick, Leino, Kaleta or Tropp is counting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  16. mikemcburn

    mikemcburn Registered User

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    Curious about sending down Larrson? I'm seeing him as a kid to develop into a solid two-way center, maybe swapping around with Hodgson as 1C/2C depending on the game match-ups, etc. With limited ice time, he's upper middle pack for hits, only 2 giveaways, one of the better options in the dot (actually leads all regular centers with 56.7%), etc. I realize he's got 0 pts and is a -2, but that's still good for being middle of the pack on this team, lol.

    The Foligno/Vanek wing pair was experimented with in the pre-season and I thought looked interesting too, but as I recall there was commentary to the effect that both guys pref to play right of center for receiving Hodgson's passes, so perhaps that's why the experiment hasn't been resumed since Foligno returned from injury?

    With some of that in mind, I'd like to see a lineup of

    1a Vanek - Larrson - Girgensons
    1b Foligno - Hodgson - Grigorenko
    3 Ennis - Ott - Stafford
    4 Flynn - Porter - Scott

    Get the youth some quality ice-time, impose on the vets and mmore experienced guys to work with the rookies, spread around the minutes more, and give guys actual "roles".

    Both 1a & 1b get playmaking centers and a guy (Girg & Foligno) who can make some room while are also able be closers themselves, and between special teams and match-ups, there doesn't need to be a big gap in ice time between the lines. Girg is a center too and could be swapped in/out of the dot with Larrson as matchups unfold. Same with Hodgson/Grig.

    Giving the guys on line 3 the shut down job, I'd envision them being a physical trio who can open up some space to also be chipping in for secondary scoring. The 4th is the typical energy/physical trio.

    When Kaleta, Tropp and Leino are back though... it'll take some games to see where they fit. I see the value in getting the rookies some ice time in the AHL, but shame to send them away if this rebuild is gonna go on the fast track.
     
  17. Jacob582

    Jacob582 Registered User

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    I counted Kaleta twice. Once on the 23 man roster and counted him again when he is back from suspension.
     
  18. dire wolf

    dire wolf cool

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    •*Zadorov back to London

    • Risto to Rochester for a bit (I know there is a whole thread on this and I know it is controversial, but I'm not sure of the answer). If not eligible for Rochester, leave him in Buffalo

    •*Waive McCormick and send him to Rochester.

    •*Sending Grigs to Q will not help his game. It's really unfortunate that he is not elegible to play in the AHL, since that is exactly where he needs to be. I think we just have to suck it up and be patient with him in Buffalo. He needs to be working out with the pro staff and players and getting physically beaten a bit. Next year, he'll be eligible for the A and then maybe he can re-find his scoring touch.

    Plan B - maybe Leino "accidentally" slips on a bar of soap in the locker room?
     
  19. joshjull

    joshjull Moderator

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    I've seen this posted before and I wonder why some think this. He produced offense but didn't dominate games nor did much in the OHL playoffs. He wasn't great defensively nor was his compete level high in juniors. The idea that he is above juniors is a curious one to me.
     
  20. start winnin

    start winnin NO MORE TANK BOYS

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    I think it's more that people feel he's not going to improve his game the way we want him to (boardwork, showing more hustle, etc). He's already good enough for that league that he's not going to have to work that hard to produce points, whereas we want to see more energy/hustling/battling than anything.

    I think his offensive game is already fantastic and NHL level, he just needs to increase his intensity, footwork, boardwork, hustle, etc. I don't think the Q is the best place to do that.
     
  21. Woodhouse

    Woodhouse Registered User

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    Often the reasoning is that it'll allow Grigorenko to continue with his bad habits, as he can get by on talent alone in the QMJHL, allowing for his coaches to overlook our development concerns in lieu of needed scoring; conversely, in the pro ranks, he'd either learn to do what's expected of him or he won't play, be it with low TOI or as a scratch.
     
  22. Jim Bob

    Jim Bob Now do we believe?

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    So where is the best place for him to develop that?
     
  23. CarlWinslow

    CarlWinslow @hiphopsicles

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    Vanek-Hodgson-Stafford
    Ennis-Foligno-Ott
    Girgensons-Larsson-Flynn
    Scott-Grigorenko-Porter

    The defensive pairings:
    Ehrhoff-Pysyk
    Tallinder-Myers
    Weber-Ristolainen
    Zadorov-McBain

    Tropp, McCormick, Kaleta, Leino

    OK, looking at this, it's not that tough of a decision.

    #1 - Zadorov to London, Risto to Finland. Bottom line with these prospects is they need to play. There isn't space for them to do this here so send them to where they can play.

    #2 - Girgs back to the AHL. Let the man work on his offense. Why waste development time by trying to squeeze him into a line-up that realistically doesn't have space.

    #3 - Re-shuffle the damn lines. This team is literally gasping for speed and forechecking. Guys like Vanek and Grigorenko for starters lack that ability. So in order to compose an effective line, you need to have that skill coming from one of the wings.

    In my opinion the team has a handful of guys who can do those things and if you place them strategically throughout the lineup, you could probably ignite Vanek, Grigs, Leino, Stafford etc.

    The team also has too many centers so somebody needs to shift to wing. Keep the better face off guys at C. I'm bolding the guys who provide the speed a forecheck presence.

    So this is what I would do.

    Vanek - Hodgson - Tropp

    Ennis - Foligno - Ott

    Grigorenko - Larsson - Flynn

    Leino - Porter - Stafford

    X: Scott, McCormick, Kaleta

    Call it a soft lineup if you must, I don't care. Having a tough guy take ice time away from a young player defeats the purpose of the season. If you need to inject toughness, sit Leino.

    If you want players to develop and this team to ultimately be good a year or two down the road though, the young guys need to play. Be it here or in Finland, they have to play.

    In addition to that, you have to put them in a position to succeed. So you need to play them with complimentary players. Grigorenko for example, needs guy who can get him the puck. Flynn and Larsson can both do that. No amount of time in Quebec is going to change this fact. He is a certain type of player who does specific things extremely well. Play him with guys who let him do those things and he will flourish. If he does not, then he isn't what we all thought and you move on.
     
  24. start winnin

    start winnin NO MORE TANK BOYS

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    As for the original problem of Tropp, Kaleta and McCormick coming back, Zadorov to London, Risto to Finland/AHL and Girgs to Rochester, no need to rush these guys. I want to see them play more than anything (only thing that makes this season bearable), but I'd rather slow cook them and improve their skills in lower leagues than have them fester in that locker room all year.

    I think the AHL would be good for him, it's really disappointing he can't play there. I don't think the NHL is good for him either, but it's the lesser of two evils compared to the Q IMO. Regier/Ruff really blew it with him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013

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