If Manny Viveiros and GG are added to the coaching staff what do they bring?

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
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I've always been hoping for an ex-head coach to come on. Not to have that in house replacement, but someone that has recently been in the NHL that thinks the game on that level. Someone that hopefully will have TM's ear when it comes to game plans and such.

As for Manny, don't know enough about him.
 

Weitz

Registered User
Sep 23, 2014
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I mentioned in another thread that I heard from a source I trust that Gulutzen and Yawney have both signed contracts to join the coach staff next year.

Not sure I know exactly what they bring, but based on GG's tenure in Calgary I think he is better suited for an assistant coach position. He also has a good relationship with McL.
 

SK13

non torsii subligarium
Jul 23, 2007
32,758
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Edmonton
I feel as though any external analysis of what an assistant coach brings to the table is probably borderline worthless.

For example, if you're looking at Jay Woodcroft from the outside, he's a coach who helped to run/ran like 8 top-10 powerplays over the last 10 seasons. That must be something he's good at, right? That totally came to fruition this year, right?
 

Soul8

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Jan 20, 2018
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When Nicholson spoke near the end and said the fans will get on board when they seen the plan I'm notI'm not too sure these coaching additions give me any type of confidence Yawney being the most impressive I suppose.

If we aren't already aware of Manny and Gigi's strength I sure hope the people making these choices of bringing them on our, but it's hard to have confidence in them when they were the same ones that hired T-Mac and his assistants
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
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When Nicholson spoke near the end and said the fans will get on board when they seen the plan I'm notI'm not too sure these coaching additions give me any type of confidence Yawney being the most impressive I suppose.

If we aren't already aware of Manny and Gigi's strength I sure hope the people making these choices of bringing them on our, but it's hard to have confidence in them when they were the same ones that hired T-Mac and his assistants
I'd like to know what coaches they could bring in that would instill faith in this fan base.
 

CycloneSweep

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Sep 27, 2017
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GG good at PK, bad at PP.
Yawney good at PK, doesn't coach the PP, great with defensemen.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
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2022 Cup to Calgary
What do they Excel at, what do they struggle at, and how will they help this team?

Having watched Gulutzan coach for two years I guess I could tell you he

- Excels at structure, defensive details, and all other things related to shot suppression and penalty killing (5v5, PK). 2015 Canucks had a top PK under him and both years the Flames had a solid PK under him. Our PK could have been better but I'll touch on that later.

- Excels at macro-level tweaking on the defensive end within his structure. When there are tweaks to be made he has tried many different things and has had many different sub-systems. He's not stubbornly adherent to one way.

- Struggles with micro-level tweaking - he won't do anything in-game and probably won't change anything for five-seven games even when it's blatantly obvious it's just... a bad idea.

- Struggles with anything involving offensive creativity, whether that is 5v5, 4v4, 3v3, PP, 5v3. His offensive philosophy seems to be that "some players just have better finish but everyone should just keep shooting pucks on net", a strategy that worked for a few players (Sean Monahan, Dougie Hamilton) but generally crashed and burned with the majority of his team.

- Struggles with actual player usage (His systems clashed hard with the Bartkowski-Engelland pair in the 2017 playoffs and he stuck to them). This was the one issue with his penalty kill as well last year, as he insisted on this forward pair of Stajan-Brouwer that probably wouldn't even have been effective killing penalties together in the AHL, and yet rode them hard to failure. Further to that he struggles with objectivity. Nik Grossman, who was our second-worst player in 2016 preseason on a PTO, had a history with GG which got him an underserved contract and then GG played him with Dougie Hamilton on our second pair, got him out there against Draisaitl where his very first shift he basically gave Draisaitl a Gretzky level assist. It was baffling why he even played in that game considering just how much better Brett Kulak had been even then. But the worst part was when Grossman was finally contract-terminated, he publically blamed Grossmann's teammates for it. There are other countless examples - his usage of TJ Brodie, Sam Bennett, Troy Brouwer, Brett Kulak.

- Excels at building player relationships. While I don't know if he commanded "respect" he did command affection from his players.

- Struggles with not sounding extremely, embarrassingly corny when talking about hockey past X's and O's. I would cringe everytime he talked about "Building Emotional Bank Accounts" or team-building - things of that sort. While the personal and team aspects have their place, the way he speaks is just hilariously and obliviously patronizing.
 

BoldNewLettuce

Esquire
Dec 21, 2008
28,125
6,967
Canada
I think I came across Manny 2YRS Ago and was fairly impressed.

Not to toot my own horn....

I also may have glanced at Gulutzans hair once or twice in passing.....
 

FlameChampion

Registered User
Jul 13, 2011
13,524
15,054
Having watched Gulutzan coach for two years I guess I could tell you he

- Excels at structure, defensive details, and all other things related to shot suppression and penalty killing (5v5, PK). 2015 Canucks had a top PK under him and both years the Flames had a solid PK under him. Our PK could have been better but I'll touch on that later.

- Excels at macro-level tweaking on the defensive end within his structure. When there are tweaks to be made he has tried many different things and has had many different sub-systems. He's not stubbornly adherent to one way.

- Struggles with micro-level tweaking - he won't do anything in-game and probably won't change anything for five-seven games even when it's blatantly obvious it's just... a bad idea.

- Struggles with anything involving offensive creativity, whether that is 5v5, 4v4, 3v3, PP, 5v3. His offensive philosophy seems to be that "some players just have better finish but everyone should just keep shooting pucks on net", a strategy that worked for a few players (Sean Monahan, Dougie Hamilton) but generally crashed and burned with the majority of his team.

- Struggles with actual player usage (His systems clashed hard with the Bartkowski-Engelland pair in the 2017 playoffs and he stuck to them). This was the one issue with his penalty kill as well last year, as he insisted on this forward pair of Stajan-Brouwer that probably wouldn't even have been effective killing penalties together in the AHL, and yet rode them hard to failure. Further to that he struggles with objectivity. Nik Grossman, who was our second-worst player in 2016 preseason on a PTO, had a history with GG which got him an underserved contract and then GG played him with Dougie Hamilton on our second pair, got him out there against Draisaitl where his very first shift he basically gave Draisaitl a Gretzky level assist. It was baffling why he even played in that game considering just how much better Brett Kulak had been even then. But the worst part was when Grossman was finally contract-terminated, he publically blamed Grossmann's teammates for it. There are other countless examples - his usage of TJ Brodie, Sam Bennett, Troy Brouwer, Brett Kulak.

- Excels at building player relationships. While I don't know if he commanded "respect" he did command affection from his players.

- Struggles with not sounding extremely, embarrassingly corny when talking about hockey past X's and O's. I would cringe everytime he talked about "Building Emotional Bank Accounts" or team-building - things of that sort. While the personal and team aspects have their place, the way he speaks is just hilariously and obliviously patronizing.

When I read this, it just sort of sounds like McClellan - lite. It doesnt surprise me though, just seems like GG is redundant. Maybe he will be more effective as an assistant coach. Guess we will see if hes hired by the Oilers.
 

redgrant

Registered User
Nov 2, 2013
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Gg has clearly been brought in in case he has to take over the team at the 20 game mark.
 

Soul8

Registered User
Jan 20, 2018
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198
When I read this, it just sort of sounds like McClellan - lite. It doesnt surprise me though, just seems like GG is redundant. Maybe he will be more effective as an assistant coach. Guess we will see if hes hired by the Oilers.

Redundant is the word i would use as well, it shows a lack of understanding by those doing the hring if he does come, maybe again this is Tmac picking his friends...not a good thing in my opinion, unless some superstar assistant comes along who can coach the pp and create some offensive confidence.
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
52,498
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Redundant is the word i would use as well, it shows a lack of understanding by those doing the hring if he does come, maybe again this is Tmac picking his friends...not a good thing in my opinion, unless some superstar assistant comes along who can coach the pp and create some offensive confidence.
There isn't a lot of teams in sports in general that just go out and pick random guys. It's usually guys that people have worked together with, because you need to trust them. What good is bringing guys in and then TM just doesn't use them at all?
 

Soul8

Registered User
Jan 20, 2018
507
198
There isn't a lot of teams in sports in general that just go out and pick random guys. It's usually guys that people have worked together with, because you need to trust them. What good is bringing guys in and then TM just doesn't use them at all?

If Tmac doesn't know how to bring in guys who know how to get the job done, or doesnt use him...that sets the Oilers up for more of the same failure that the Oilers endured this past season. This is not how success is created.
 

FlameChampion

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Jul 13, 2011
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Gg has clearly been brought in in case he has to take over the team at the 20 game mark.

I see the logic but to me GG is just an average to mediocre head coach. Sure he could be a bandaid fix if TM starts the year poorly, but it just seems pointless to replace him with a coach whos more or less the same if not worse.
 

Soul8

Registered User
Jan 20, 2018
507
198
I see the logic but to me GG is just an average to mediocre head coach. Sure he could be a bandaid fix if TM starts the year poorly, but it just seems pointless to replace him with a coach whos more or less the same if not worse.

Yup, if we would take GG as a head coach, the same coach that was unable to land a head coaching gig this summer after being fired? If that is the case...this team is in trouble, because the higher ups are setting the team up to fail.
 
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FlameChampion

Registered User
Jul 13, 2011
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Yup, if we would take GG as a head coach, the same coach that was unable to land a head coaching gig this summer after being fired? If that is the case...this team is in trouble, because the higher ups are setting the team up to fail.

Yeah honestly if TM fails to start the year, I think I would rather see Yawney or Viveiros take over (assuming their hired) than Gulutzan. Least those two guys, you dont know what you have in them and they could be a good head coach. With GG, you know what you have and to me, hes a mediocre to average head coach.
 

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