If Crosby retired before the start of '19/20, is he a top 10 ALLTIME player?

[Tyrus]

Lol. He's the best player to enter the league in the last 35 years.

I'd say tied for best player with Ovechkin.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Has the most Top 3 Art Ross finishes/ Hart nominations in NHL history besides Wayne and Howe.

Has the best playoff resume of his era.

What else do you need to know?

The level of competition during his era for those Art Ross and Hart trophies.

I don’t think it compares to Jagr for example.
He was up against Lemieux, Gretzky, Francis, Sakic, Bure, etc and still won 5 Art Ross trophies.

Crosby doesn’t stack up well against that.
I think when his career is over it’ll be safe to say he’s top 10 all-time, but not yet.

 

[AssaultPK]

The level of competition during his era for those Art Ross and Hart trophies.

I don’t think it compares to Jagr for example.
He was up against Lemieux, Gretzky, Francis, Sakic, Bure, etc and still won 5 Art Ross trophies.

Crosby doesn’t stack up well against that.
I think when his career is over it’ll be safe to say he’s top 10 all-time, but not yet.

So all of those lower tier players Francis, Sakic, Bure, ECT, were all just better then this modern day competition right?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Sorry but Esposito isn't even a top center of all time nevermind top 10 of all position.

Lafleur is out of place here as well.

that is impressively wrong. When he retired he was 2nd all time in points and goals, and 3rd all time in assists

2x Hart
2x Pearson
5x Ross
6x Rocket
3x led league in assists
6x AS-1
3x led the league in playoff scoring
6th all time in goals (retired at #2)
10th all time in points (retired at #2) (and 10th all time in PPG)
first to score 60 in a season
first to score 70 in a season
first to score 100 points in a season
first to score 150 pts in a season
2nd best streak with 13 consecutive 30G seasons

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

So all of those lower tier players Francis, Sakic, Bure, ECT, were all just better then this modern day competition right?

Lower tier?

Those guys were superstars.

 

[Warden of the North]

Yes. Whats left that he has to prove?

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Why?
I think there's a good argument for it.

For example:

Sakic - 19 GWG in the playoffs vs 9 for Crosby
8 of those were in OT vs 1 for Crosby

And Sakic maintained his elite level of play until around 40 years of age.

I expect Crosby to pass them up by the time he's done but at this point I put him right around that Yzerman/Sakic tier of players. One of the greats of his generation.

Compare pt finishes, hart finishes and individual awards, that stuff matters way more than random things like GWGs. Crosby is a tier or 2 ahead of the Sakics.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

This myth that Messier was something special defensively has to stop. He was fine defensively. Just fine.

Messier did shut down brain function of a lot of opposing players though.

 

[pcruz]

So, after the top 4 - Wayne, Mario, Bobby, Gordie - you have Jagr, Hull, Beliveau, LaFleur, Richard...

Do you have Sid after that group right now?
Do you have some others that can break into that group right now, Mess, Harvey, Trottier, Potvin, Richard (the other one), Roy, Hasek, Dionne, Coffey...

 

[hamzarocks]

Crosby is the 5th best player of all time. Had he stayed healthy and had the trophy case he was primed to obtain he would be ahead of Howe.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Not a personal fave but the conversation should be is he a top 5 player of all time.

 

[AssaultPK]

Lower tier?

Those guys were superstars.

Clearly the latter guys you listed are on a lower tier then Gretzky and Lemieux.

And you didn't answer my question:

Your saying that all of the players post-2005 lock out are lower competition?

 

[Yackiberg8]

The level of competition during his era for those Art Ross and Hart trophies.

I don’t think it compares to Jagr for example.
He was up against Lemieux, Gretzky, Francis, Sakic, Bure, etc and still won 5 Art Ross trophies.

Crosby doesn’t stack up well against that.
I think when his career is over it’ll be safe to say he’s top 10 all-time, but not yet.

Saying he’s competed with Gretzky and Lemieux for trophies is disingenuous. He never competed against Gretzky when both were relevant in trophy races and he only competed against Lemieux for 2 seasons when Lemieux was healthy enough to compete for trophies. 2 seasons where Jagr won nothing.

Nice try though.

 

[daver]

A secondary PP assist tonight makes this thread moot.

 

[wetcoast]

that is impressively wrong. When he retired he was 2nd all time in points and goals, and 3rd all time in assists

2x Hart
2x Pearson
5x Ross
6x Rocket
3x led league in assists
6x AS-1
3x led the league in playoff scoring
6th all time in goals (retired at #2)
10th all time in points (retired at #2) (and 10th all time in PPG)
first to score 60 in a season
first to score 70 in a season
first to score 100 points in a season
first to score 150 pts in a season
2nd best streak with 13 consecutive 30G seasons

A top 10 player of all time also won't have a 4 year playoff run of 31-4-4-8.

Also Epsosito didn't take off until age 25 when surprise, surprise he joined the Bruins and Bobby Orr.

Espositio's ESGF/ESGA ratio is really poor for a guy with video game stats as well.

Also when he was traded to the NYR, the guy he was traded for outscored him for the rest of their careers, despite being 2 years older.

Phil simply has no reasonable case for being a top 10 player of all time and like I said upthread I personally don't think he is even a top 10 center of all time.

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby is the 5th best player of all time. Had he stayed healthy and had the trophy case he was primed to obtain he would be ahead of Howe.

I think Howe is part of the big 3 and if anything Crosby might catch Mario but time will tell on that front.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I think Howe is part of the big 3 and if anything Crosby might catch Mario but time will tell on that front.

Considering Mario>Howe no.

 

[wetcoast]

Considering Mario>Howe no.

I think there is a clear separation between Howe and Mario based on what they actually did an their entire body of work.

Mario simply didn't tilt the cie as often as his video game stats indicate.

 

[Hustlr]

I try not to let stat volume weigh too heavily. In terms of impact on the game, his skill level, comparisons to peers...I have him sitting somewhere in the Lidstrom/Jagr tier, which is definitely top 10.

This

 

[Highmarker]

Crosby was the undisputed best player in the league for 10+ years I'd say he's top 10

 

[Sam Spade]

Crosby was the undisputed best player in the league for 10+ years I'd say he's top 10

No he wasn't. Heck for some of those years he wasn't the best player on his own team.

But I feel like you know that and I just took the bait.

 

[wetcoast]

No he wasn't. Heck for some of those years he wasn't the best player on his own team.

But I feel like you know that and I just took the bait.

No you are right it wasn't undisputed but Crosby has had an elite level of play for 14 straight years, the valley only really being injuries.

Since the lockout his level of play both in the regular season and playoffs is simply unmatched.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

As someone who as always hated Crosby, yes he's a top 10 player all time. He was billed as the Next One and has totally lived up to it, won everything, elite every single season and is nowhere close to being done.

 

[SillyRabbit]

It’s a shame that he lost two Art Rosses, two Harts and two Lindsay’s due to injuries.

If he had those extra six trophies in his case this wouldn’t even be a question.